Catholic saints

[jastor]

Where in the bible does it mention saints and the right to cannon (?) them?
If it was such a valid practice why dont other sects follow the practice?

 

[deb1]

Where in the bible does it mention saints and the right to cannon (?) them?
If it was such a valid practice why dont other sects follow the practice?

We are supposed to pray for one another, correct?

Catholics do not believe that when we die that we end. We believe that the dead are in heaven with Christ. Those people are saints.

 

[jastor]

We are supposed to pray for one another, correct?

Catholics do not believe that when we die that we end. We believe that the dead are in heaven with Christ. Those people are saints.

No its not that simple.

 

[Soutane]

No its not that simple.

REEEEAAAAAALLLLLLLY?.Why don’t you enlighten us?I have a suspicion that was your original intent.

 

[The_Fool]

Where in the bible does it mention saints and the right to cannon (?) them?
If it was such a valid practice why dont other sects follow the practice?

I will admit to not memorizing everything I read, but I believe the Pauline letters mention saints a number of times. Please noet that they may not be translated as such because saints may come from the Latin Sanctus or Greek Hagios, and we now how weird translations can be, or even interpretations.

Canonization, or glorification, is actually just a recognition that the individual in question is a saint in heaven and was before the declaration, sort of like when you announce the discovery of some plant or another. It existed before you found it, and it’s still there. However, unlike plants, the saint says in heaven rather than going extinct. In the Catholic Church, it could be formal or informal, but the formal process has a lot more scrutiny and lately canonization is something reserved to the Holy See. That said, there’s no right involved, you just look for miracles, p(name removed by moderator)oint which saint you think it came from, and then make your declaration. I might have it wrong, but I think it’s mostly right.

The Orthodox, Anglicans, and Lutherans have a calendar of saints similar to the Catholic’s set of declared saints. One of the reasons why Protestants left the Church is because of the saints, and the devotions associated with them. Well, besides that, if you throw out purgatory than they’re all supposed to go up, right? Why bother with canonization then? Uh, did it answer the questions?

 

[jastor]

REEEEAAAAAALLLLLLLY?.Why don’t you enlighten us?I have a suspicion that was your original intent.

Is it even possible to get straight answers and not sarcasm?

True; it is not that simple. I am looking for answers not glossed over sarcasm answers. You wont get converts for the church that way.

 

[jastor]

What makes one person a saint and one not a saint? A public or private struggle?
There has got to be more to it than this?

I will admit to not memorizing everything I read, but I believe the Pauline letters mention saints a number of times. Please noet that they may not be translated as such because saints may come from the Latin Sanctus or Greek Hagios, and we now how weird translations can be, or even interpretations.

Canonization, or glorification, is actually just a recognition that the individual in question is a saint in heaven and was before the declaration, sort of like when you announce the discovery of some plant or another. It existed before you found it, and it’s still there. However, unlike plants, the saint says in heaven rather than going extinct. In the Catholic Church, it could be formal or informal, but the formal process has a lot more scrutiny and lately canonization is something reserved to the Holy See. That said, there’s no right involved, you just look for miracles, p(name removed by moderator)oint which saint you think it came from, and then make your declaration. I might have it wrong, but I think it’s mostly right.

The Orthodox, Anglicans, and Lutherans have a calendar of saints similar to the Catholic’s set of declared saints. One of the reasons why Protestants left the Church is because of the saints, and the devotions associated with them. Well, besides that, if you throw out purgatory than they’re all supposed to go up, right? Why bother with canonization then? Uh, did it answer the questions?

 

[Nordar]

Is it even possible to get straight answers and not sarcasm?

True; it is not that simple. I am looking for answers not glossed over sarcasm answers. You wont get converts for the church that way.

do you wish to be converted?

 

[wcknight]

There is formal process that is in place for getting someone canonized as a saint. I don’t know the full details, but there is a formal application that has to be made to the Holy See. Documents and research has to made into the life and works of the person in question even before the formal process starts. At some point some Vatican committee declares that the process can begin for that person to become beatified.

While this is on going evidence of intercession by the the person in question must be found and documented that some miraculous healing was done at the intercession of this person. In the past it required two verified miracles for someone to be declared blessed, and four for someone to be declared a saint.

Along with the miracles, evidence must be established that the person led a holy and exemplary life, that no hint of scandal or problems are found. Some years ago, the Church reviewed some of the popular named saints to determine if the persons really existed. There was a list of some who were questionable, and they were removed from the list of real saints.

It is a fairly long process and takes several years to complete. I think in the past some took many years to complete, some only got to the “Blessed” title, some because not enough miracles were found or some other such reason. Also I think recently the number of the miracles required has been reduced.

 

[ralphinal]

Saint means “holy one.” THere are two ways that the term is used in the Bible. The first is typically used in Paul and it refers to baptised believers in union with the Church. The second is used in Revelation and it refers to those who are dead on earth but alive in Christ in heaven.

Catholic and orthodox teachings have always held that the saints are aware and can intercede for us. Because of that, we can ask them to pray for us or to help us through their intercession. This is shown in Revelation when the angels take the prayers of the saints to God.

Though some angels have “saint” before their name, it is to indicate that they are seen as holy intercessors, not as people who have died and gone to heaven.

 

[Shin]

From the earliest days of the Church, those people of manifest holiness to all who shed their blood for the Church, were acknowledged as martyrs and saints.

It was deemed an insult to say that someone who had shed his blood for Christ, was not in fact in Heaven. And the names of these holy martyrs were recorded and known by all, and we still have them today in books called ‘Martyrologies’… as well as recorded in the catacombs… and elsewhere…

They are the first Christians and our witness to canonization… the Church herself… united determined these people were in Heaven… the Holy Spirit guiding them to pronounce it together…

These men and women are saints! Let their prayers be heard for us in Heaven! And in Revelation… it is recorded. . that this is the incense of their prayers for us…

And those who wrote the New Testament, and their chosen disciples… believed in this… and participated in this too… becoming saints… and believing as the Church still does today… in the Communion of Saints.

 

[ralphinal]

From the earliest days of the Church, those people of manifest holiness to all who shed their blood for the Church, were acknowledged as martyrs and saints.

It was deemed an insult to say that someone who had shed his blood for Christ, was not in fact in Heaven. And the names of these holy martyrs were recorded and known by all, and we still have them today in books called ‘Martyrologies’… as well as recorded in the catacombs… and elsewhere…

They are the first Christians and our witness to canonization… the Church herself… united determined these people were in Heaven… the Holy Spirit guiding them to pronounce it together…

These men and women are saints! Let their prayers be heard for us in Heaven! And in Revelation… it is recorded. . that this is the incense of their prayers for us…

And those who wrote the New Testament, and their chosen disciples… believed in this… and participated in this too… becoming saints… and believing as the Church still does today… in the Communion of Saints.

It is also a sign of the presence of the working of the Holy Spirit in the life some someone who willingly and without fighting gave up their life for the faith. Only someone with the gift of Courage would do that.

 

[The_Fool]

What makes one person a saint and one not a saint? A public or private struggle?
There has got to be more to it than this?

It’s discussed somewhere in “What is a saint?”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=322683

Otherwise, if you take the meaning of saint to be from the Latin sanctus, and thus holy, it is highly depended on the definition. To be holy, in my definition, is to be reserved for God. This adjective can be used with people as well as things, like Sunday, and because it can be used on inanimate objects, is not determined by intent of the object described. In that sense, Christians are holy because we are reserved for God, at least we’re supposed to be. There is another meaning to holy, however, and that is to make ourselves holy. Keep yourself holy means to keep yourself reserved and not give yourself away to other things, and in that sense we may make ourselves not holy, but by our baptism we are reserved for God. Uh, did that make sense? One is an ascribed trait, the other is an achieved trait.

Okay, then comes the definition of a saint in Catholic terms. The church is divided into three parts based on stage of transition. We, the living, are the Church Militant, and the word saint means we are members of said church. When we die and go to purgatory we are the Church Suffering, but we’re still saints. Those who are in heaven are called Church Triumphant and are generally the people we think of in the everyday use of the word “saint.”

What makes a glorious saint, or one in heaven? Well, you’re in heaven. What’s the specifics regarding canonization? I think someone else mentioned that above. What makes a canonized saint so special compared to the other glorified saints? Nothing. The Church never officially claims to know where anybody is at any point in their death except when she canonizes a saint. Does this mean there can be a glorified saint that isn’t canonized? Yes. Canonization is only a thing important to living people. I doubt the dead really care, unless it increases ones devotion to Our Lord. Uh, did I answer everything?

 

[FCEGM]

Where in the bible does it mention saints and the right to cannon (?) them?

Why does it have to be proven from Scripture? Catholics also have the testimony and practice of Sacred Tradition (which doesn’t contradict Scripture) as proof enough that the canonization of our brothers and sisters who have so lived their lives in Christ as to be worthy emulation and of remembrance at Mass and other official liturgical gatherings is a great manifestation of Christ’s sanctifying work.

If it was such a valid practice why dont other sects follow the practice?

The further they get from Christ’s Catholic Church, the less knowledge they have of the fullness of Faith and the practice of the same.

 

[FCEGM]

What makes one person a saint and one not a saint? A public or private struggle?
There has got to be more to it than this?

It might be helpful to you to read some of the writings by and about of the Saints of the Church; e.g., St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Maximilian Kolbe, St. Faustina, St. Dominic, St. Ignatius Loyola, St. Teresa of Jesus, St. John of the Cross, St. Gemma Galgani, Bl. Margaret Costello, etc., etc., etc…

 

[Dirk_Skene]

Where in the bible does it mention saints and the right to cannon (?) them?
If it was such a valid practice why dont other sects follow the practice?

I need to ask a question to you please. Since it sounds like you are truly qurious (see, I can’t critisize your spelling ) & not just trying to start something. Why does it need to be in the Bible to make it legit?

 

[deb1]

No its not that simple.

I suppose that I could have made the answer more complex but yes, that is the basic answer.

Perhaps you are asking how the Church determines who is a saint? It should be noted that the Church does not make anyone a Saint. God makes the person a saint. The Catholic Church does not claim to know everyone in heaven. It only determines a few.

 

[JRKH]

If I understand correctly there is a passage in one of the Maccabees that mentions praying to or for the dead. This, of course might be a problem for someone who has a protestant Bible.

The OP seems to have a couple of different questions and I think they have been mostly answered.
Saints are “holy Ones” Anyone who is in heaven is a Saint - whether they are recognized by the Church or not.
As for the named Saints and the Bible - I don’t really think there needs to be a passage in the Bible allowing the Church to formally recognize that someone is in heaven if sufficient proof is there. After all at the transfiguration Jesus was conversing with Moses and Elijah so there is certainly proof that they are in heaven. Our Blessed Mother has appeared to several people as confirmed by the Church - Thus we are sure she is in heaven.
People praying to holy ones and recieving miracles is another way of having assurance of someone being in heaven and interceding.

Finally - I you want a verse granting the Church authority to officially recognize a saint I would posit this one. “Whatever you Bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven…” The Church has investigated and determined that the person is, in fact, in heaven and deserving of recognition. Naturally this changes nothing about the person in Heaven it is only a regonition by the Church of someone who is worthy of emulation.

Peace
James

 

[deb1]

I need to ask a question to you please. Since it sounds like you are truly qurious (see, I can’t critisize your spelling ) & not just trying to start something. Why does it need to be in the Bible to make it legit?

Oooh Oooh, I know where it is in the Bible.

2 Maccabees 15:11-16 show the dead praying for people. Of course, you have to have a Catholic Bible to find this verse

In Revelation, the Christian Martyrs are shown understanding what is happening on earth and praying to God for justice for us

In Tobit 12:12 the Angel Rapheal says that he heard the couple’s prayers also

 

[deb1]

Is it even possible to get straight answers and not sarcasm?

True; it is not that simple. I am looking for answers not glossed over sarcasm answers. You wont get converts for the church that way.

Normally, I am polite as are many posters. Sadly, the ones that seem to stand out, for some odd reason, are those who others deem as rude. That is very discouraging for someone like me who is very careful with her answers.