Catholic school boots student with gay parents

[royal_archer]

Unfortuantely too many parrents engage in sinful acts and then want to stop the schools from telling the kids the “parrents” are going to eternal damnation. Even if the schools do not directly say that person x is going down, the kids can put two and two together and then they warn their “parrents” and then the adults want the schools to water down Christian teaching.

 

[Corki]

now, i have the same view on this issue. that is, if you kick the student out, who will teach them the right values?

if it were up to me, i’d keep the child in the Catholic school and teach him the right Catholic values, which i’m pretty sure he will not get from his parents

It is not the Catholic school’s role to teach any child Catholic values. That is the duty and responsibility of the parents. The school’s role is to give structure to those values, to model them in a learning environment and to reiinforce and deepen what is learned at home. If the child is not learning Catholic values at home, there is nothing to reinforce.

As someone else mentioned in this thread (or the other one on the same topic) it is routine to refuse or delay Baptism when there is little hope the child will be raised with the Catholic failth. It is unfair to do otherwise. The same thing goes for Catholic education. It is unfair to give a child the example of good Catholic moral living and then send him/her home to a complete contradiction.

The Bishop also pointed out in his letter that the parents have to be able to partner with the school in the education process. This would be extremely difficult if the parent was basically throwing Church teaching into the face of the school.

 

[Elizabeth502]

It is not the Catholic school’s role to teach any child Catholic values. That is the duty and responsibility of the parents. The school’s role is to give structure to those values, to model them in a learning environment and to reiinforce and deepen what is learned at home. If the child is not learning Catholic values at home, there is nothing to reinforce.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The Bishop also pointed out in his letter that the parents have to be able to partner with the school in the education process. This would be extremely difficult if the parent was basically throwing Church teaching into the face of the school.

Both of these paragraphs restate better what I said in my post #5.

Lots of people commenting on this event in various threads misunderstand the role of Catholic schools, and how the Catholic philosophy of the family fits into them. Others also misunderstand that it is not about “sin” per se – a comparison of sins, a priority category of sins, etc.

 

[Karmartia]

Why on earth would a lesbian couple want to enroll their child in a Catholic school if not to make some political statement? Don’t they know about the Church’s stand on homosexuality? It’s obvious, this is a publicity stunt.

 

[Abu]

Two excellent commentaries on this question

What wisdom is at work in not having children of a gay marriage in a Catholic school?
fatherbillsblog.com/heart/2010/03/what-wisdom-is-at-work-in-not-having-children-of-a-gay-marriage-in-a-catholic-school.html ]

**On Prudence and the Tyranny of Tolerance: A Case Study by Dr. Jeff Mirus, March 11, 2010 **

“Our coverage of the decision of a Catholic school not to enroll a student being raised by lesbians has stimulated a vigorous exchange of ideas…”

catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?id=433

 

[vera_dicere]

I don’t think that’s right at all. The school should be educating the child in all matters relating to the school’s programme, and perhaps, the child would take home something that could save their parents. Those parents might have gotten more involved with the school and could have met more Catholics who could have brought them out of their lifestyle.

I mean, if they’re going to argue that the child is bringing a sinful mindset into the school, or whatever, are Catholic schools then goign to demand to have knowledge of whether mothers of pupils have had abortions? Surely such a landscape at home where the mother/parents support the culling of the unborn is more a danger?

Where I’m from, Catholic schools are some of the best. They do a good job instilling education, of course, parents play a role too, the schools provide some education as to the faith, but its up to the parents as to whether the child lives it at home. Much like other school work. Any school can hand a child a book and expect them to read at school, but once the child is home, its up to the parents to determine whether they can be bothered educating their child further in reading.

But yeah, Jesus hung out with hookers and reviled tax collectors, had he come now, I would imagine Jesus would be hanging out with homosexuals and abortionists. As Catholics, and as Christians it is our duty to welcome all. Welcomign someone does not mean relishing or delighting in their sins.

 

[markomalley]

But yeah, Jesus hung out with hookers and reviled tax collectors, had he come now, I would imagine Jesus would be hanging out with homosexuals and abortionists. As Catholics, and as Christians it is our duty to welcome all. Welcomign someone does not mean relishing or delighting in their sins.

You might want to read your Bible again.

Jesus hung out with tax collectors…who amended their ways.

Jesus hung out with adulteresses…who amended their ways.

That’s the difference.

I’m certain, along with you, that Jesus would have no problem hanging out with an abortionist. After the abortionist renounced his past sins and made a firm purpose not to commit an abortion again. I am also certain that Jesus would have no problem hanging out with a homosexual or two. Provided that they renounce their past acts and make a firm purpose to live chastely.

I’m going to quote St. Paul once again (from 1 Cor 5);

6 Your glorying is not good. Know you not that a little leaven corrupts the whole lump? 7 Purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new paste, as you are unleavened. For Christ our pasch is sacrificed. 8 Therefore, let us feast, not with the old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness: but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote to you in an epistle not to keep company with fornicators. 10 I mean not with the fornicators of this world or with the covetous or the extortioners or the servers of idols: otherwise you must needs go out of this world. 11 But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator or covetous or a server of idols or a railer or a drunkard or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them that are without? Do not you judge them that are within? 13 For them that are without, God will judge. Put away evil one from among yourselves.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Good response from Mark.

The moral code to which Jesus adhered, and to which other faithful Jews in the First Century also adhered, forbade, among other things:

-polytheism
-adultery
-fornication
-homosexuality
-murder
-abortion

Contrary to popular misinterpretation, Jesus was not more lenient on these sexual and other matters, but less so, in that even interior thoughts and acts of the will and words of violence were things he classified as serious transgressions.

To the extent that the couple in question merely adopted the child, they are guilty merely of ongoing and unrepentant homosexual acts, as well as the direct and indirect teaching to the child that the natural order created by God can be dismissed. And in those, they present an obstacle, as “parents,” to the fundamental alliance between school and whole family that is at the very heart of Catholic education. (The poster should read my and Corki’s earlier posts on this, on this thread.) Catholic schools do not form a relationship with only the child, but with the entire family unit, and in doing so they acknowledge the legitimacy of that family unit, which is radically impossible in this case.

To the extent that the couple did not adopt the child, but acquired the child through biological means, the couple additionally engaged in at least one of the following:
-fornication with a man
-using the services of a sperm bank, by which anonymous samples have been provided via masturbation
-using other reproductive technologies such as IVF along with a sperm sample, which may have resulted in destruction of embryos.

However way you slice it, the child is not the victim of the Catholic school or church, but the victim of the couple.

 

[peary]

That is so bogus and misleading. The parish ALLOWED the child to finish the educational term, but told the ‘guardians’ that it could not re-enroll the child due to the situation.

Catholic parents have certain expectations of their school, and one is that the school needs to pass on the Faith, and to UPHOLD the Faith. The school is in the right here, both legally and morally. There are plenty of private schools that the guardians could send the child rather than a Catholic school.

 

[CatholicGuy22]

:clapping:I appluad the person who made this happen. Most people would not have the courage to turn down a gay couple especially in the society we live in today. This man stood by the teachings of the church and stayed strong. Although he will probely be hated for the rest of his life by the gay community.

 

[Abu]

vera dicere
But yeah, Jesus hung out with hookers and reviled tax collectors, had he come now, I would imagine Jesus would be hanging out with homosexuals and abortionists. As Catholics and as Christians it is our duty to welcome all. Welcoming someone does not mean relishing or delighting in their sins.

However consider:

The forgotten reality that is Jesus of Nazareth is given by the great Frank Sheed:
“Certainly, some people who knew Christ in His lifetime would have been startled to find so much made of His loving kindness, indeed might have wondered if you were talking of the same person.”

He refers us to the Gentile woman who “must have felt His ‘Do you want Me to take the bread of the children and give it to dogs?’ as an assertion of her inferiority as a Gentile:…did she feel Him loving?” (Mk 7:25)

To His own Apostles, “whom He loved to the end” Jesus exclaimed: “Have you no sense, no wits, are your hearts dulled, can’t you see, your ears hear, don’t you remember?” (Mk 6:51). Apologist Frank Sheed remarks of Christ: “He seems not to have spread Himself to win affection.” (Christ In Eclipse, p 42).

“With individuals He was very much the doctor with a duty not only to tell them what was wrong with them, but to make sure the realized it. On the multitude, however, ‘He had compassion, for they were helpless and harassed like sheep without a shepherd.’ Yet one wonders how He showed it: for they too had to have the truth. His settled habit was terseness of speech.” (Ibid. p 40-41).

Those lesbians who have control of that child need to be helped to appreciate the gravity of their unnatural control over that child.

To quote Dr Jeff Mirus:
“…universal tolerance means the acceptance (and therefore tacit approval) of all behaviors, irrespective of their impact on the common good and on human flourishing. To put the matter simply, tolerance perceived as a virtue always rewards vice….The invocation of tolerance as a virtue will always undermine prudence, the real and necessary virtue that enables us to match proper solutions to particular problems.”

 

[vera_dicere]

You might want to read your Bible again.

Jesus hung out with tax collectors…who amended their ways.

Jesus hung out with adulteresses…who amended their ways.

That’s the difference.

Yeah, he did, BUT they didn’t amend their ways until they came into contact with Jesus.

 

[vera_dicere]

:clapping:I appluad the person who made this happen. Most people would not have the courage to turn down a gay couple especially in the society we live in today. This man stood by the teachings of the church and stayed strong. Although he will probely be hated for the rest of his life by the gay community.

But what happens now?

You think those gay parents are going to tell their child the school was right? That its okay for gay people’s children to be kicked out of Catholic schools. Chances are that child is going to be lost to the faith now, they’re going to be listening to their parents rag on the Catholic Church and how they hate gays, and how they’re making this child leave their school and friends because of their gay parents!

Or the child may end up hating their parents for being gay.

Either way, not a good situation.

 

[royal_archer]

Yeah, he did, BUT they didn’t amend their ways until they came into contact with Jesus.

and those two women now have to make the decision as to whether they are going to mend their ways.

 

[royal_archer]

But what happens now?

You think those gay parents are going to tell their child the school was right? That its okay for gay people’s children to be kicked out of Catholic schools. Chances are that child is going to be lost to the faith now, they’re going to be listening to their parents rag on the Catholic Church and how they hate gays, and how they’re making this child leave their school and friends because of their gay parents!

Or the child may end up hating their parents for being gay.

Either way, not a good situation.

The other options are to water down teaching and portray something sinfull as something less than sinfull or to tell the child that the adults in their home are engaged in acts that will increase their chances of burning in hell.

 

[Corki]

But what happens now?

You think those gay parents are going to tell their child the school was right? That its okay for gay people’s children to be kicked out of Catholic schools. Chances are that child is going to be lost to the faith now, they’re going to be listening to their parents rag on the Catholic Church and how they hate gays, and how they’re making this child leave their school and friends because of their gay parents!

Or the child may end up hating their parents for being gay.

Either way, not a good situation.

If the child remained in school and was exposed to authentic Church teaching, do you think the “parents” would have been telling the child that the Church and school are right? Do you think they would have been supporting a teaching that their own livestyle was gravely sinful? Do you think the child would have had the support needed to follow the faith?

You are right, either way, it’s not a good situation but the situation was caused by the parent, not the school or the Church.

 

[choy]

Why on earth would a lesbian couple want to enroll their child in a Catholic school if not to make some political statement? Don’t they know about the Church’s stand on homosexuality? It’s obvious, this is a publicity stunt.

that may not be the case

there are many Catholics out there who are selective in their beliefs, that they believe most of the teachings of the Church and yet turn a blind eye on those that cross their personal beliefs

think about it, how many kids in Catholic schools are children of heterosexual couples who are not married, on their Nth marriage, etc?

 

[choy]

It is not the Catholic school’s role to teach any child Catholic values. That is the duty and responsibility of the parents. The school’s role is to give structure to those values, to model them in a learning environment and to reiinforce and deepen what is learned at home. If the child is not learning Catholic values at home, there is nothing to reinforce.

As someone else mentioned in this thread (or the other one on the same topic) it is routine to refuse or delay Baptism when there is little hope the child will be raised with the Catholic failth. It is unfair to do otherwise. The same thing goes for Catholic education. It is unfair to give a child the example of good Catholic moral living and then send him/her home to a complete contradiction.

The Bishop also pointed out in his letter that the parents have to be able to partner with the school in the education process. This would be extremely difficult if the parent was basically throwing Church teaching into the face of the school.

then what are Catechists for?

 

[portarica]

If a child’s mother and father are cohabiting and not married, they’re still the child’s parents.
A lesbian couple are not the child’s parents. You cannot have two women showing up both claiming to be the child’s mother.

What about an adopted child of any parents?

Its not like the couple didn’t know what went on at a catholic school.

Are the kids better off at a catholic school? Hopefully the school acts in a Christlike fashion and doesn’t try to practice tough love with the kids. But absent any concerted effort to bring shame on the kids,it would always be better to have the kids in a catholic school.

It sounds like the bishop or whomever was trying to make some sort of statement to the choir.

Peace

 

[Corki]

then what are Catechists for?

Same thing. I have taught CCD for eight years now. I can only give structure and detail to what the children are learning at home. Hang out on a catechist’s forum and you will see tale after tale of frustration. If the parents aren’t teaching the faith at home and bringing thier kids to Mass and the Sacraments, I am just a babysitter for an hour every week.