Catholic school boots student with gay parents

[Karmartia]

that may not be the case

there are many Catholics out there who are selective in their beliefs, that they believe most of the teachings of the Church and yet turn a blind eye on those that cross their personal beliefs

think about it, how many kids in Catholic schools are children of heterosexual couples who are not married, on their Nth marriage, etc?

You have a point, but I’m not sure an unmarried heterosexual couple is directly analagous to a gay or lesbian couple primarily because there is no national agenda for unmarried heterosexual couples that I am aware of, as there most definitely is for gay and lesbian couples. If a Catholic school were to tell an unmarried heterosexual couple that they couuld not continue to educate their child on moral grounds I would be surprised, but I wouuld be more surprised if a lawsuit resulted.

 

[Abu]

**Would Jesus Defend Marriage?
By Colleen Carroll Campbell **
eppc.org/printVersion/print_pub.asp?pubID=4097

Excerpts:
It’s no coincidence that after nearly half a century of Catholic education based largely on the Hallmark Jesus rather than the real McCoy, many Catholics have reacted with indignation to the Boulder situation and Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput’s response to it. An articulate defender of Catholic orthodoxy with almost as many media critics as former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke, Chaput described the Boulder pastor’s decision as an appropriate application of the archdiocesan policy that requires parents to “subscribe to the school’s philosophy” – including what Catholic schools teach about marriage – if they wish to enroll their children in archdiocesan schools.

Anyone who thinks Chaput exaggerates the threat of weak Catholic identity at Catholic schools should look at the recent study of Catholic college students by Georgetown University’s Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate. The study suggested that Catholic students at Catholic schools may fare better than those at secular schools in retaining the faith. Yet their levels of Mass attendance and support for Catholic teaching on marriage and abortion are more likely to decrease than increase during the years they spend on a Catholic campus.

Disciples of the Hallmark Jesus may consider that encouraging news. For those who want their children to learn a more robust and countercultural form of Catholic Christianity, the Boulder decision was a necessary step toward reconciling belief and practice, even in the hard cases.

 

[Zatzat]

Does this same Catholic school kick kids out who’s parents:

1. Live in common law
2. Were previously married in the Church, got divorced, didn’t get an annulment, got re- married and still receive the Eucharist?
3. Use artificial birth control
4. Openly tell their friends that they have decided to have one child.
5. Openly tell their friends that the father received a vasectomy?
6. It became common knowledge that one of the parents is having an affair.
7. Are pro-choice.
8. Never go to Mass.

If not, why not?

Do they just kick the kids out who’s parents commit sins that are related to homosexuality?

 

[Elizabeth502]

All the items posted in 43 are in the realm of sins or potentially sinful – alhtough many of them revolve around speculation and rumor, and no, the Church does not persecute or punish based on rumor.

The “couple” (self-defined) was not being kicked out because of sin, or assumed sin. The “couple” was denied a position in the school as dual heads of family because of the visibility of their fundamentally oppositional description of family, since the family unit is at the heart of every Catholic school. Had the child been merely presented by one woman, who described herself as a single mother (for example, unmarried mother), her lifestyle could have been anything as long as it was not public. It is the public nature of it that creates the scandal. The whole community could gossip about that single mother (“Is she living with someone?” "Is she divorced but considering remarriage without annulment? “Is she a lesbian?”), but there is not really a controversial issue unless that woman were to make it a controversial issue. So if she brought her lesbian lover to the first parent-teacher conference in kindergarten, yes, that would become an issue. If she brought her live-in boyfriend to those meetings, and publicly declared he was her lover, that would, like this case, become a scandal, and the school would be within its rights to disenroll the child next year because of the problem of scandal.

This case is more publiciized, but I’ve seen all kinds of different scandalous situations (again, with public flaunting of a lifestyle, some of which are named in post 43) become reasons for not enrolling a kindergartner in the first place, and/or not continuing the enrollment the following year.

There is a component to Catholic education that does include being a practicing, faithful member of the parish, in good standing. Most school administrators are not going to check every nook and cranny, but spaces in very desirable Catholic schools, in desirable locations, are limited, and there is wide discretion and a kind of prioritizing of who gets admitted. Understand that it works to the benefit, also, of those who are truly in a situation which in its very nature, calls for compassion, such as recently widowed single mothers, or those who appear to be living a wholesome lifestyle and have encountered a tragedy of which they are truly a victim (natural disaster, etc.)

 

[graceandglory]

Why on earth would a lesbian couple want to enroll their child in a Catholic school if not to make some political statement? Don’t they know about the Church’s stand on homosexuality? It’s obvious, this is a publicity stunt.

It could also be that Catholic school tuition is a lot cheaper than daycare for the same amount of hours. That is the case in most places.

 

[Zatzat]

All the items posted in 43 are in the realm of sins or potentially sinful – alhtough many of them revolve around speculation and rumor, and no, the Church does not persecute or punish based on rumor.

Actually, every sin I posted, when existing, are generally common knowledge amongst the adults peers.

heads of family because of the visibility of their fundamentally oppositional description of family,

Again, are the children of common law spouses kicked out of Catholic school?

Are the children of re-married Catholics, without an annulment, are they kicked out of Catholic school?

Are the children of married Catholics, who got married at city hall, without a Bishops dispensation, are they kicked out of Catholic school?

You speak as if the examples I’ve given are generally carefully guarded secrets…when in fact, they’re usually common knowledge within the community and certainly, amongst the peers of the parents and children.

Knowing that someone isn’t married but living in common law, certainly doesn’t qualify as checking out every nook and cranny.

You’ve addressed my post, but failed to adequately address my question.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Actually, every sin I posted, when existing, are generally common knowledge amongst the adults peers.

You speak as if the examples I’ve given are generally carefully guarded secrets…when in fact, they’re usually common knowledge within the community and certainly, amongst the peers of the parents and children.

Knowing that someone isn’t married but living in common law, certainly doesn’t qualify as checking out every nook and cranny.

You’ve addressed my post, but failed to adequately address my question.

Wrong. I addressed it; you just don’t want to accept it. Private sin is not public scandal. Neither the school nor the Church accepts gossip as evidence. Gossip is actually sinful in itself and could even be calumny or detraction, which are seriously sinful. Doesn’t matter what “common knowledge” of busybodies is. If the couples in question make their situations common knowledge, especially to an embarrassing degree, that could be grounds of disenrollment, should any school decide to do that. The school has to personally know, first of all, not by rumor but by direct question and answer, that something morally controversial is going on, and second it normally must arise to the level of being public. Being public does not include gossip or “common knowledge.” It would include standing up at a parent meeting when the topic of sex ed is being introduced to parents as a group, and announcing that you as a couple are fundamentally opposed to the church’s teaching on contraception, sexuality, etc. Because in doing so the couple would be breaking their enrollment contract with the school, thus invalidating that contract and disenrolling themselves. The lesbian couple disenrolled themselves by their actions.

The fuller morality (and comparisons of sins vs. marital status) is discussed by Fr. Breslin in various articles posted, all of which address the items in your posts.

 

[Zatzat]

Private sin is not public scandal.

How is living with a common law spouse private?

How is never going to Mass private?

How is telling your friends that you got a vasectomy private?

How is it becoming public knowledge that your having an affair, private?

How is telling people you got married at City hall private?

How is telling your friends that your choosing to have only one child, private?

I think we have a different understand as to what private really is.

Neither the school nor the Church accepts gossip as evidence.

I’ve not once suggested that my examples were to be taken as innuendo, gossip or rumour.

The lesbian couple disenrolled themselves by their actions.

By what actions?

Did they openly discuss their homosexual sexual acts?

Right from the OP’s first post;

" The Denver Archdiocese posted a statement Friday that the parents are “living in open discord with Catholic teaching.”

Are unmarried spouses living in common law not openly living in discord with Catholic teaching?

Are men who’ve chosen to get vasectomies so as to assure they’ll not have more children and they openly admit to their friends of such an action, are they not openly living in discord with Catholic teaching?

Which begs the question, why is it that we never hear of children with those kinds of parents getting booted out of Catholic school?

Why is always the homosexual sins?

Hmmmm…

 

[royal_archer]

Does this same Catholic school kick kids out who’s parents:

1. Live in common law
2. Were previously married in the Church, got divorced, didn’t get an annulment, got re- married and still receive the Eucharist?
3. Use artificial birth control
4. Openly tell their friends that they have decided to have one child.
5. Openly tell their friends that the father received a vasectomy?
6. It became common knowledge that one of the parents is having an affair.
7. Are pro-choice.
8. Never go to Mass.

If not, why not?

Do they just kick the kids out who’s parents commit sins that are related to homosexuality?

If you go to a school function, the general public would never know that these situations are occuring. However a gay couple esentially screems this.

If a teacher tells a child that it is a mortal sin to not go to mass, the parrents who do not go to mass will not sue or raise a stink with the school.

If a teacher tells a child that homosexual acts are a mortal sin, the parrents are more likely to sue, or otherwise cause problems with the church.

 

[royal_archer]

Which begs the question, why is it that we never hear of children with those kinds of parents getting booted out of Catholic school?

Why is always the homosexual sins?

Hmmmm…

Exactly why do homosexual adults feel they get special privleges? Why can’t they quietly accept their disagreement with the church and send their children to other schools like other sinners do?

 

[Zatzat]

If you go to a school function, the general public would never know that these situations are occuring. However a gay couple esentially screems this.

You mean to tell me that in the history of the Catholic Church, there hasn’t been one set of parents that school officials were aware of that were not married? I find that very, very hard to believe.

If a teacher tells a child that it is a mortal sin to not go to mass, the parrents who do not go to mass will not sue or raise a stink with the school.

What stink did the Lesbian couple raise?

If a teacher tells a child that homosexual acts are a mortal sin, the parrents are more likely to sue, or otherwise cause problems with the church.

Please cite the precedents you’ve used to substantiate this claim.

 

[Zatzat]

Exactly why do homosexual adults feel they get special privleges? Why can’t they quietly accept their disagreement with the church and send their children to other schools like other sinners do?

Are there no sinners at Catholic schools?

 

[royal_archer]

You mean to tell me that in the history of the Catholic Church, there hasn’t been one set of parents that school officials were aware of that were not married? I find that very, very hard to believe.

I didn’t say the school officials were un aware, I said the general public would not be aware. Gay couples in public is an open protest of God’s will, private sin is not.

What stink did the Lesbian couple raise?

Please cite the precedents you’ve used to substantiate this claim.

The innitiation of this thread is evidence enough.

 

[royal_archer]

Are there no sinners at Catholic schools?

Your right my comment does need clarification.

There are repentent sinners who recognize that they are doing wrong and accept Church’s / God’s teaching even if they fall short of living up to it. That is different than those who are in open opposition to the Church and God. I was reffering to the unrepentent and unaccepting sinners, not those who are accepting and trying.

 

[Zatzat]

Gay couples in public is an open protest of God’s will, private sin is not.

Yeah, it’s what I call a secret protest of God’s will.

I can’t wrap my mind around how Christians sinning everyday of their life in secret ( common law and** I still maintain it’s not a secret**), are somehow better off than sinners brave enough to sin in the public eye ( same sex couples)?

Absolutely puzzling.

 

[Zatzat]

Your right my comment does need clarification.

There are repentent sinners who recognize that they are doing wrong and accept Church’s / God’s teaching even if they fall short of living up to it. That is different than those who are in open opposition to the Church and God. I was reffering to the unrepentent and unaccepting sinners, not those who are accepting and trying.

Are there not unrepentent and unaccepting sinners in Catholic schools?

If yes, why isn’t the Church rooting them out and sending them to the public school system, with all the other unrepentent and unaccepting sinners?

 

[pnewton]

You speak as if the examples I’ve given are generally carefully guarded secrets…when in fact, they’re usually common knowledge within the community and certainly, amongst the peers of the parents and children.

You must be more informed on others (I am trying to find a nice way to put it) than I am. I could tell you none of those things about any of the parents at my child’s school. However, I could tell you is someone showed up with two mommies.

 

[pnewton]

How is living with a common law spouse private?

I do not ask to see the marriage licenses of couples I know.

How is never going to Mass private?

No one signs in at Mass. With multiple Masses in multiple parishes, unless one is in a small town, this can not be known, except by gossip.

How is telling your friends that you got a vasectomy private?

Few people know of others surgical procedures, unless one is that person’s doctor. In any case, having a vasectomy is not a state of sin. Such a sin can be forgiven in confession and a reversal is not required.

How is it becoming public knowledge that your having an affair, private?

Except from gossip, how are such things known?

How is telling people you got married at City hall private?

Except from gossip, how are such things known?

How is telling your friends that your choosing to have only one child, private?

Except from gossip, how are such things known?

I think we have a different understand as to what private really is.

I think many do not share your understanding.

Let me turn this around. If two women lived together and one was the mother, one would not know of the homosexual relationship, again unless the women made it a big deal publicly, demanding their rights to a Catholic education. In that was done in some of the other stuff you mentioned, I would be all for an equitable treatment.

I am just so pleased to see a Catholic school take a stand against this evil that is a rot to our society, that I can do nothing but applaud them.

 

[Zatzat]

You must be more informed on others (I am trying to find a nice way to put it) than I am. I could tell you none of those things about any of the parents at my child’s school. However, I could tell you is someone showed up with two mommies.

Visible sins are bad.

Secret sins aren’t as bad?

What else could I conclude?

Student whose parents sin, by the very nature of the sin, the sin is visible, get booted out of school.

Students whose parents sin, by the very nature of the sin, the sin is secret, they get to stay in school.

It seems that one, if a Catholic, should go to great lengths to keep their sins secret and in the dark. If unmarried Catholic parents are asked, they should just lie and say yes, we were married in a Catholic Church.

If they told the truth, their kid gets booted out of school…it makes sense now…keep your sinning secret and in the dark.

Is that what your God would want? ( serious question)

 

[royal_archer]

Are there not unrepentent and unaccepting sinners in Catholic schools?

If yes, why isn’t the Church rooting them out and sending them to the public school system, with all the other unrepentent and unaccepting sinners?

If they make a public scene of it they will likely be asked to leave. However, those instances do not make national news.