Catholic School gives communion to non-Catholics

  • Thread starter Thread starter ak29
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

ak29

Guest
Hello Everyone, my sister goes to a Catholic School here in Toronto, and she has a friend who is Muslim, apparently yesterday she was given the Sacrament in the chapel. I do not know if this was a one time incident or a standard practice at that school. What should I do? Complain to the school, and then what if they tell me its acceptable? I was shocked by this, but then again I have a mother( catholic) who sees no problem with this, though I believe its out of her own ignorance of Catholic beliefs.

Thank you
Andrew
 
If the child went up to receive, it’s possible the priest didn’t realize she wasn’t a Catholic. Maybe let the teacher know so she can advise her non-Catholic students not to go up to receive.
 
I was at a funeral Mass this week. The priest, just before Communion, said, “As Catholics we believe the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and divinity of Christ. Baptized Christians who also hold this belief are welcome to receive Communion.”

He should have said, “Baptized Christians who hold this belief are welcome to attend RCIA.” 😛 —KCT
 
Since the girl was a Muslim, it seems likely that she simply didn’t know what was going on. If she did, this was really weird because she would seem to be indicating belief in something which she, as a Muslim, simply can’t hold. If she approached for Holy Communion then the priest was probably confused and just did what was natural. Obviously the matter needs to be brought to the attention of both the school and the pastor.
 
ak29 said:
Hello Everyone, my sister goes to a Catholic School here in Toronto, and she has a friend who is Muslim, apparently yesterday she was given the Sacrament in the chapel. I do not know if this was a one time incident or a standard practice at that school. What should I do? Complain to the school, and then what if they tell me its acceptable? I was shocked by this, but then again I have a mother( catholic) who sees no problem with this, though I believe its out of her own ignorance of Catholic beliefs.

Thank you
Andrew
Click to expand...
Unless the ordinary or extra-ordinary minister has first-hand and indisputable absolute knowledge that at the person had full understanding of the teaching that they are not to recieve (a very hard test and most hard for an extra-ordinary minister as they have less opportunity for such knowledge), a person who presents themself for communion is to be presumed to be worthy.

If any person who believes that someone has recieved who should not have (non-Catholic or Catholic in an invalid marriage as most other "criteria for worthiness are interior and not normally subject to lay person scrutiny), they are to inform the Pastor or Ordained person in charge of the possible infraction. The ordained minister is then called to use this as a teaching moment at the earliest practical time.

And even when the minister (ordinary or extra-ordinary) has information that would preclude a person from recieving but doesn’t think the person has presented themself with evil intent (i.e. use of the host for satanic purposes), they are in most cases to not cause a disturbance and to allow them to recieve with the intention to quickly address this with the person as absolutely early as possible (not practical but possible). In limited cases, the minister may refuse to allow the person to receive and give them a blessing unless they think there will not be a disturbance that will detract from the other communicants needs.

(My source for this is my wife who is an extra-ordinary minister. If I am wrong, I look forward to correcting her as I so seldom get to do so!)
 
Orionthehunter said:
Unless the ordinary or extra-ordinary minister has first-hand and indisputable absolute knowledge that at the person had full understanding of the teaching that they are not to recieve (a very hard test and most hard for an extra-ordinary minister as they have less opportunity for such knowledge), a person who presents themself for communion is to be presumed to be worthy.

If any person who believes that someone has recieved who should not have (non-Catholic or Catholic in an invalid marriage as most other "criteria for worthiness are interior and not normally subject to lay person scrutiny), they are to inform the Pastor or Ordained person in charge of the possible infraction. The ordained minister is then called to use this as a teaching moment at the earliest practical time.

And even when the minister (ordinary or extra-ordinary) has information that would preclude a person from recieving but doesn’t think the person has presented themself with evil intent (i.e. use of the host for satanic purposes), they are in most cases to not cause a disturbance and to allow them to recieve with the intention to quickly address this with the person as absolutely early as possible (not practical but possible). In limited cases, the minister may refuse to allow the person to receive and give them a blessing unless they think there will not be a disturbance that will detract from the other communicants needs.

(My source for this is my wife who is an extra-ordinary minister. If I am wrong, I look forward to correcting her as I so seldom get to do so!)
Click to expand...
vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20040528_lineamenta-xi-assembly_en.html

The Eucharist: Signum Unitatis
  1. “Come together in a common faith and in Jesus Christ…,” says St. Ignatius of Antioch, “breaking one bread which is the medicine of immortality.”[97] St. John Chrysostom says, “this is the unity of faith: when we are one; when everyone acknowledges the bond which unites us.”[98] Admittance into the unity of the Sacred Eucharist presupposes unity in the faith received at Baptism, because in the Sacrament we enter into communion with the one whom, according to our faith in him, we believe to be consubstantial with the Father. How would it be possible to receive Christ in communion with a person who has a different faith in him? We would be guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord (cf. 1 Cor 11:27). The Church, as a mother, has anguish and love for non-believers, catechumens and those far from the faith but she does not have the power to give communion to the non-baptized, nor to those teaching error nor to persons living an immoral life.99]
 
Walking_Home said:
vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20040528_lineamenta-xi-assembly_en.html

The Eucharist: Signum Unitatis
  1. “Come together in a common faith and in Jesus Christ…,” says St. Ignatius of Antioch, “breaking one bread which is the medicine of immortality.”[97] St. John Chrysostom says, “this is the unity of faith: when we are one; when everyone acknowledges the bond which unites us.”[98] Admittance into the unity of the Sacred Eucharist presupposes unity in the faith received at Baptism, because in the Sacrament we enter into communion with the one whom, according to our faith in him, we believe to be consubstantial with the Father. How would it be possible to receive Christ in communion with a person who has a different faith in him? We would be guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord (cf. 1 Cor 11:27). The Church, as a mother, has anguish and love for non-believers, catechumens and those far from the faith but she does not have the power to give communion to the non-baptized, nor to those teaching error nor to persons living an immoral life.99]
Click to expand...
Good quote but not really in context. My main point is that the minister is to give the benefit of the doubt to all who present themselves that they are worthy, mostly because worthiness is a judgment for which in 99% of all cases the potential communicant and God know the answer to. For those very rare cases where the the minister has absolute, undeniable, no question that the person is not worthy, the issue gets sticky.

However, as an extra-ordinary minister or ordinary not the spiritual advisor to the person, it is unlikely that the minister will have enough information to make this determination. Let me give you three examples:
  1. Person comes to Mass but right before Mass goes into the kitchen, grabs a piece of bread, wads it up and eats it. EMHC sees that the person has violated the fast and when the person presents themself, the person is refused communion. Extenuating circumstances: The person is taking chemo, must take a pill every hour, and the piece of bread assists them to get down the pill. The EMHC overstepped his/her authority and should have assumed the person was worthy.
  2. Person has been living in an invalid marriage for years/living with another person who is not their spouse. Minister knew this indisputably. Unknown: The day before the person made a valid confession.
  3. Person was married to the former local Baptist Minister, was raised in the community as a non-Catholic, had moved several years ago, and had come back to visit the family which was also Baptist. Attended Mass with her best friend who was Catholic and presented herself for communion. Minister denied communion. Unknown: the person was divorced and had converted the previous Easter Vigil.
My point is that there is a time and place for determining/assessing/discerning the worthiness of a person who presents themself for communion. The communion line is not the place as the minister is to assume the person is worthy unless the knowledge of unworthiness is absolutely, unequivocally indisputable. As I showed above, the opportunity for a mistake is great.

In the situation described by the OP, I suggest that she contact the chaplain about the situation. If the chaplain claims it is acceptable, I would assume that the chaplain is not properly understanding of the doctrine and prepare a non-accusatory compilation of authoritative documents on the Teaching and give it to him to review. After appopriate time for the chaplain to review it, I’d ask if he had changed his mind. If he said yes, I would assume that he has taken pastoral steps to correct it (he has not obligation to tell you what was done as it is pastoral and thus private). If I see that it reoccurs, I’d ask him why it continues. If you receive an inadequate answer that you question, I would send a letter to the Bishop with the facts as you know it. After that point, it is the responsibility of the Ordinary and you can rest in comfort that you’ve done what you are authorized to do.
 
Orionthehunter said:
Good quote but not really in context. My main point is that the minister is to give the benefit of the doubt to all who present themselves that they are worthy, mostly because worthiness is a judgment for which in 99% of all cases the potential communicant and God know the answer to. For those very rare cases where the the minister has absolute, undeniable, no question that the person is not worthy, the issue gets sticky.

Quote=Orionthehunter
And even when the minister (ordinary or extra-ordinary) has information that would preclude a person from recieving but doesn’t think the person has presented themself with evil intent (i.e. use of the host for satanic purposes), they are in most cases to not cause a disturbance and to allow them to recieve with the intention to quickly address this with the person as absolutely early as possible (not practical but possible). In limited cases, the minister may refuse to allow the person to receive and give them a blessing unless they think there will not be a disturbance that will detract from the other communicants needs
.
Click to expand...
What I posted was in reference to what you stated above. It is not whether a person may have some sort of evil intent—It is the Faith.

Their ignorance to our teachings does not in any way or form—give any of us a reason to allow those who do not hold to our Faith–Holy Communion.

We do indeed become guilty of the Body and Blood of our Lord–if we allow anyone who does not hold our Faith to receive Holy Communion-because we don’t want to cause a disturbance.
 
Walking_Home said:
What I posted was in reference to what you stated above. It is not whether a person may have some sort of evil intent—It is the Faith.

Their ignorance to our teachings does not in any way or form—give any of us a reason to allow those who do not hold to our Faith–Holy Communion.

We do indeed become guilty of the Body and Blood of our Lord–if we allow anyone who does not hold our Faith to receive Holy Communion-because we don’t want to cause a disturbance.
Click to expand...
Please read post #8. Your use of the word “allow” also presumes that the minister has absolute, undeniable, unequivocal knowledge the person is unworthy. The communion line is not the proper place for a minister to determine worthiness. They are to act under the presumption of worthiness. As a relative of the person who had been in an invalid marriage who only the day before had made a valid confession, I do not want ministers who “think” they know everything to take it upon themelves to determine worthiness in front of the entire faith community.
 
Orionthehunter said:
Please read post #8. Your use of the word “allow” also presumes that the minister has absolute, undeniable, unequivocal knowledge the person is unworthy. The communion line is not the proper place for a minister to determine worthiness. They are to act under the presumption of worthiness. As a relative of the person who had been in an invalid marriage who only the day before had made a valid confession, I do not want ministers who “think” they know everything to take it upon themelves to determine worthiness in front of the entire faith community.
Click to expand...
We are not speaking of Catholics here. We are speaking of persons known to not be Catholic. That is the reason the Church says that she does not have the authority to allow Non-Catholics to receive Holy Communion----Because of the Faith. If a known person of another Faith–presents themselves for Communion—are we then–to perform sacrilege–just to not cause a disturbance.

Post # 6
Quote=Orionthehunter
If any person who believes that someone has recieved who should not have (non-Catholic or Catholic in an invalid marriage as most other "criteria for worthiness are interior and not normally subject to lay person scrutiny), they are to inform the Pastor or Ordained person in charge of the possible infraction. The ordained minister is then called to use this as a teaching moment at the earliest practical time.

And even when the minister (ordinary or extra-ordinary) has information that would preclude a person from recieving but doesn’t think the person has presented themself with evil intent (i.e. use of the host for satanic purposes), they are in most cases to not cause a disturbance and to allow them to recieve with the intention to quickly address this with the person as absolutely early as possible (not practical but possible). In limited cases, the minister may refuse to allow the person to receive and give them a blessing unless they think there will not be a disturbance that will detract from the other communicants needs.

(My source for this is my wife who is an extra-ordinary minister. If I am wrong, I look forward to correcting her as I so seldom get to do so!)
 
From Walking_Home
We are not speaking of Catholics here. We are speaking of persons known to not be Catholic. That is the reason the Church says that she does not have the authority to allow Non-Catholics to receive Holy Communion----Because of the Faith. If a known person of another Faith–presents themselves for Communion—are we then–to perform sacrilege–just to not cause a disturbance.
Click to expand...
You obviously have more information than I or can presciently determine more facts than I could from the original post.

How do you or the OP KNOW that the minister knew absolutely that the communicant was non-Catholic?

Since it was a Catholic school, how do you or the OP absolutely know that the person hadn’t recently converted?

Or are you suggesting that ministers are supposed to start judging worthiness in the Communion line?
 
ak29 said:
Hello Everyone, my sister goes to a Catholic School here in Toronto, and she has a friend who is Muslim, apparently yesterday she was given the Sacrament in the chapel. I do not know if this was a one time incident or a standard practice at that school. What should I do? Complain to the school, and then what if they tell me its acceptable? I was shocked by this, but then again I have a mother( catholic) who sees no problem with this, though I believe its out of her own ignorance of Catholic beliefs.

Thank you
Andrew
Click to expand...
If the priest did not know the person was a Muslim, then we should not be alarmed. Someone should kindly and respectfully remind him, preferably another cleric, that this one is a Muslim. However, this does not have anything at all to do with worthiness. This has to do with faith, that those who are not even baptized (we will assume this) cannot validly be admitted to Holy Communion and receive its effects.The Muslim student can then be reminded by the priest or others about the Church’s teaching on this matter.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5

(emphasis my own)

1244 First Holy Communion. Having become a child of God clothed with the wedding garment, the neophyte is admitted "to the marriage supper of the Lamb"44 and receives the food of the new life, the body and blood of Christ. The Eastern Churches maintain a lively awareness of the unity of Christian initiation by giving Holy Communion to all the newly baptized and confirmed, even little children, recalling the Lord’s words: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them."45 The Latin Church, which reserves admission to Holy Communion to those who have attained the age of reason, expresses the orientation of Baptism to the Eucharist by having the newly baptized child brought to the altar for the praying of the Our Father.​

First we are baptized, then we are admitted to eat and drink with fear of the Lord at the Holy Altar thereof. Once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with worthiness. At the same time, we must give the benefit of the doubt; perhaps the person was given emergency baptism and then eucharisted.
 
Orionthehunter said:
You obviously have more information than I or can presciently determine more facts than I could from the original post.

How do you or the OP KNOW that the minister knew absolutely that the communicant was non-Catholic?

Since it was a Catholic school, how do you or the OP absolutely know that the person hadn’t recently converted?

Or are you suggesting that ministers are supposed to start judging worthiness in the Communion line?
Click to expand...
Oh come on now Orionthehunter----I was responding to your own words in post 6.

Post # 6
Quote=Orionthehunter
If any person who believes that someone has recieved who should not have (non-Catholic or Catholic in an invalid marriage as most other "criteria for worthiness are interior and not normally subject to lay person scrutiny), they are to inform the Pastor or Ordained person in charge of the possible infraction. The ordained minister is then called to use this as a teaching moment at the earliest practical time.

And even when the minister (ordinary or extra-ordinary) has information that would preclude a person from recieving but doesn’t think the person has presented themself with evil intent (i.e. use of the host for satanic purposes), they are in most cases to not cause a disturbance and to allow them to recieve with the intention to quickly address this with the person as absolutely early as possible (not practical but possible). In limited cases, the minister may refuse to allow the person to receive and give them a blessing unless they think there will not be a disturbance that will detract from the other communicants needs.

(My source for this is my wife who is an extra-ordinary minister. If I am wrong, I look forward to correcting her as I so seldom get to do so!)
 
Walking_Home said:
Oh come on now Orionthehunter----I was responding to your own words in post 6.

Post # 6
Quote=Orionthehunter
If any person who believes that someone has recieved who should not have (non-Catholic or Catholic in an invalid marriage as most other "criteria for worthiness are interior and not normally subject to lay person scrutiny), they are to inform the Pastor or Ordained person in charge of the possible infraction. The ordained minister is then called to use this as a teaching moment at the earliest practical time.

And even when the minister (ordinary or extra-ordinary) has information that would preclude a person from recieving but doesn’t think the person has presented themself with evil intent (i.e. use of the host for satanic purposes), they are in most cases to not cause a disturbance and to allow them to recieve with the intention to quickly address this with the person as absolutely early as possible (not practical but possible). In limited cases, the minister may refuse to allow the person to receive and give them a blessing unless they think there will not be a disturbance that will detract from the other communicants needs.

(My source for this is my wife who is an extra-ordinary minister. If I am wrong, I look forward to correcting her as I so seldom get to do so!)
Click to expand...
I see your point now. As I recall my wife telling me about her instruction, this was a specific question about a boy in our parish that he dressed in very Goth attire (factual) and there were rumors that he was into drugs and was “satanic”. In this situation, they were instructed not to make a judgment about his worthiness but to be sure to observe that he consumed the Eucharist. If they observed or suspected that he didn’t consume, they were to inform the Pastor of what they observed.

It was in this context that I used “information” or rumor regarding his true interior state and the subsequent instruction not to cause a scene by denying him communion. I was also conbining the part where there are other circumstances wehre the minister might believe they know facts that would preclude the reception but they are to allow them to recieve and then inform the Pastor of what they think they know and let him handle it. I apologize for the confusion. I see now I was not very clear. I was missing your point.
 
ak29 said:
Hello Everyone, my sister goes to a Catholic School here in Toronto, and she has a friend who is Muslim, apparently yesterday she was given the Sacrament in the chapel. I do not know if this was a one time incident or a standard practice at that school. What should I do? Complain to the school, and then what if they tell me its acceptable? I was shocked by this, but then again I have a mother( catholic) who sees no problem with this, though I believe its out of her own ignorance of Catholic beliefs.

Thank you
Andrew
Click to expand...
The big question here is, was she wearing a hijab? If she was not then she could have easily been mistaken for Chaldean Catholic. Arabs can be Catholic as well. We have many at our parish.
 
Guys, I just got in an argument with my mother and sister, who now dont even know what she did with the sacrament because she was fasting(thus she may have pocketed it, who knows) and they seem to think its okay, and none of my business, and wont tell me what she did with it.

This is just getting crazier and crazier, and I dont know what to do.
 
ak29 said:
Guys, I just got in an argument with my mother and sister, who now dont even know what she did with the sacrament because she was fasting(thus she may have pocketed it, who knows) and they seem to think its okay, and none of my business, and wont tell me what she did with it.

This is just getting crazier and crazier, and I dont know what to do.
Click to expand...
Contact the school—and explain the situation to someone there.

Is your sister’s friend —a student at the Catholic school?

If she is a student—someone at the school—should ask her what she did with our Lord.
 
ak29 said:
Hello Everyone, my sister goes to a Catholic School here in Toronto, and she has a friend who is Muslim, apparently yesterday she was given the Sacrament in the chapel. I do not know if this was a one time incident or a standard practice at that school. What should I do? Complain to the school, and then what if they tell me its acceptable? I was shocked by this, but then again I have a mother( catholic) who sees no problem with this, though I believe its out of her own ignorance of Catholic beliefs.

Thank you
Andrew
Click to expand...
Do not go to the school administration. The Pastor or Vicar is responsible for Liturgy in relation to the school. speak directly with one of them.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Do not go to the school administration. The Pastor or Vicar is responsible for Liturgy in relation to the school. speak directly with one of them.
Click to expand...
Bro. Rich—who then is in charge of the Catholic schools?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top