Catholic School Theology - Church doesn’t believe Bible stories actually happened

[BackInTheLight]

I’m not sure where to ask my question, so I apologize if I post incorrectly.

We are not practicing Catholics, but transferred our teen into a Catholic high school due, in part, to not agreeing with what is being pushed in public schools these days. Husband and I were both raised Roman Catholic. My grandfather was director of CCD/PSR for many years, so I was surprised to hear the following and want to appease my curiosity

I don’t even recall what the conversation was that led to this nugget, but my child said, “You know I don’t take the Bible literally…our Theology teacher even said that Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah - the Catholic Church doesn’t believe those stories actually occurred.”

Now, my understanding is that his Theology teacher left a seminary when he fell in love. But he was in training to become a Priest; therefore, my assumption is he would definitely know better than I what the teachings of the Church entail. But, I’m really curious - did this change somewhere along the decades or was this always the belief?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Gorgias]

my child said, “You know I don’t take the Bible literally…our Theology teacher even said that Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah - the Catholic Church doesn’t believe those stories actually occurred.”

He either misunderstood what he was taught, or the teacher phrased it poorly. (I’m trying to be charitable – it is possible that the teacher said what your son says he said, but I’m hoping that’s not the case.)

In any case, this isn’t what the Church teaches. The Church teaches that Adam and Eve are real people – our first two truly human ancestors! The Church doesn’t teach that Cain and Abel and Noah are merely characters in a story. (However, we might get into an interesting discussion if we wish to ask the question of whether there truly was a world-wide flood (or if there was a super-regional flood which appeared to the inspired writer to have been world-wide).

I think it might not be a bad idea to ask your son’s teacher himself what it was that he said, because you suspect your son misunderstood him.

 

[BackInTheLight]

Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

It is totally possible that he misunderstood. He is very literal, black/white in his thinking.

Idk if I want to ask!
When we were touring the school, I asked someone in the Theology department a question “Would you say you are more conservative here in teaching vs. liberal public school education?” It was not received well. I did get an answer of, “We prefer to use the term orthodox, not conservative or liberal”. So…hence, why I finally decided to use this forum!

 

[Gorgias]

It was not received well. I did get an answer of, “We prefer to use the term orthodox, not conservative or liberal”. So…hence, why I finally decided to use this forum!

LOL! OK… if they’re calling themselves “orthodox”, then I’m guessing your son might have misunderstood! (Many Catholics prefer not to use the ‘liberal’ / ‘conservative’ labels, since that tends to conflate with political leanings. There are orthodox Catholics in both camps (and non-orthodox in both, as well)!

The point is a somewhat nuanced one, and one hopes that teachers of teens make good prudential judgments in the way they speak to them! I think that the point might better be expressed as “God speaks the truth in the all of the Bible – sometimes He does so through literal and historical narratives, and other times He does so through other genres of literature”…!

 

[TheLittleLady]

We are not literalists, the Church’s orthodox teaching encompasses all of the tenses of Scripture.

 

[goout]

Here is some good reading:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm

If you want to know the Catholic position, this expresses it simply and authoritatively.

 

[Dovekin]

The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another.
Dei Verbum 12

The teaching about how to understand Scripture did not change, but modern literary and historical criticism revolutionized the way it was applied. Interpreters, following guidance like the above quote from Vatican II, came to different conclusions about what authors were trying to say. For example, the Adam and Eve stories were often understood as simple historical narratives; now they are usually read as philosophy and religion expressed with the forms of history.

This change is what your son and his teacher are talking about. The emphasis has shifted from the truth of a story’s content, to the message of the author. How well that is expressed by teacher or student varies greatly.

 

[BackInTheLight]

Ah, ok. This makes sense. Thank you.

Even though I do not recall it being expressly stated when I was growing up, I got the impression my Grandfather was rather “anti-Vatican II” (born in the 1920’s).

I really appreciate everyone’s answers and (name removed by moderator)ut! I don’t think any of us will return to the Church, tbh, but I still tend to believe what my Grandfather taught. And, the conversation with my son took me by surprise. Since, the Church seems to be in a period of significant change, I really had no clue as to what is the current dogma. Thanks again

 

[Dan_Defender]

Noah - the Catholic Church doesn’t believe those stories actually occurred.”

Regarding Noah, he was definitely real, as Jesus mentioned Noah and the flood. The open debate is whether the flood was regional or global.

 

[CarmeliteKnight]

Ask him if he ever took the oath agianst modernism.

 

[Gorgias]

I don’t think any of us will return to the Church, tbh

Well… we can still have some hope that one day you might, given that you see the benefits of having your son raised in the teachings of the Church, rather than in the teachings of the culture…

 

[irenaeuslyons]

I don’t see how they could not be real people. If Adam and Eve were not real people, whence came original sin. Original sin is a dogma of the Faith. Its not an analog to some other idea.

 

[De_Maria]

… Since, the Church seems to be in a period of significant change,

It does? You must be listening to the fake news. The Catholic Church is still the same. The world would like to change it, but She remains loyal to the Teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

[BackInTheLight]

Well, in our parts, it seems to be splitting right down the middle, along political lines. A number of devout Catholics in our family, for instance, won’t even talk to us since we voted differently than them last presidential election.

Some Catholics here are ok with abortion, gay marriage, etc., which, when I was growing up, was definitely not ok by the Church. That’s what I mean by the recent significant changes. I didn’t want to bump my silly little thread back up but felt like I somehow offended you. That’s why I do not participate often on forums. Best wishes.

 

[De_Maria]

Well, in our parts, it seems to be splitting right down the middle, along political lines.

Along Doctrinal lines. Devout Catholics obey Church Doctrine.

That means that we…

1. are against Abortion.
2. in favor of prayer in School
3. against the legitimization of homosexual marriage.

These all are planks which we have in common with the
Republican party.

A number of devout Catholics in our family, for instance, won’t even talk to us since we voted differently than them last presidential election.

Its too bad that your family divide runs that deep. In our family,
there are certain family members that avoid us because we
are devout Catholics.

Some Catholics here are ok with abortion, gay marriage, etc., which, when I was growing up, was definitely not ok by the Church.

Still not ok by the Church. Any Catholic who is in favor of those
is going against Church Teaching.

That’s what I mean by the recent significant changes. I didn’t want to bump my silly little thread back up but felt like I somehow offended you. That’s why I do not participate often on forums. Best wishes.

No problem. I just wanted to clarify. There are no changes
in the Catholic Church. The upheaval that you witness is
amongst those who don’t follow Catholic Teaching.

Best wishes to you, as well.

 

[BackInTheLight]

Yeah, that’s exactly my in-law Catholic family members’ issue - we are Republican, they vote Democrat down the line.

But, then again, they counsel and teach Catholicism and we don’t. And, it’s certainly not my place to judge. Thank you for the response.

 

[Dovekin]

Devout Catholics obey Church Doctrine.

That means that we…

1. Respect the dignity of every person.
2. Oppose governments imposing religious beliefs.
3. against demonizing homosexuals.

These all are planks which we have in common with the Democratic party.

 

[Zaccheus]

You will find many Catholics like that. One of my Irish Catholic friends, who is like a second mom to me once asked me if I believed that Jonah was really in the belly of a whale for 3 days and I said: “Yeah, if the whale swallowed him whole.”

This is a bit of a digression from the thread subject but:–the scripture actually tells us Jonah was swallowed by a huge fish. It does not say that it was a whale.

 

[De_Maria]

Devout Catholics obey Church Doctrine.

That means that we…

1. Respect the dignity of every person.

Except those of children in the womb.

1. Oppose governments imposing religious beliefs.

Except those who impose their anti-Christian religion and deny religious people
the right to express their faith in the public square.

1. against demonizing homosexuals.

But in favor of demonizing heterosexuals, especially, men. More than
anything else, white men. And totally in favor of belittling the value of women who choose to remain the home and be housewives.

These all are planks which we have in common with the Democratic party.

But the Democrat party is no longer democratic. It is now the party of socialism. And
by the looks of things, they mean to impose it by hook or crook.

And, the Democrat party is against Devout Catholics. They fight against the installation of Catholic judges because they know that Catholic values are anathema to their immoral agenda.

Devout Catholics do not vote for, nor promote, abortion.
Devout Catholics do not vote for, nor promote, same sex marriage.
Devout Catholics do not vote for, nor promote, the idea that religious people can not express their religious beliefs in the public square.

 

[De_Maria]

Yeah, that’s exactly my in-law Catholic family members’ issue - we are Republican, they vote Democrat down the line.

But, then again, they counsel and teach Catholicism and we don’t. And, it’s certainly not my place to judge. Thank you for the response.

That’s a bit of a surprise. In my circles, devout Catholics are the Republicans. But, down here, we have strong pro-life messages in all our churches, so that strongly contrasts with
democrat values. You might want to remind your “devout” Catholic family that their devotion to the Democrat party is missplaced.