Catholic School Uniforms

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I had to wear a uniform in high school, although it was just a uniform skirt with a choice for blouses and sweaters. It did cut down on the “clothing wars” immensely, and it made deciding what to wear to school a lot easier and less expensive. When blackwatch plaid later showed up as a fashionable fall or winter fashion choice, though, I wasn’t about to bite! No way! It was years before I could go into a store without my eyes auto-scouting for hunter green, white, off-white, or navy!

Our children only had a “dress code” sort of uniform: that is, a polo in one of these three colors, slacks, shorts or skirts of such-so-length in these three colors. When they grew up and started golfing, they got back into polo shirts, but they still don’t want the color combinations they had in grade school, LOL!

Uniforms are a good idea in school, but don’t expect the students to like them. Oh, well. They’re going to unite to complain about something. It doesn’t hurt if it is that.
 
I do not believe that uniforms are the class distinction erasers they are touted to be.

I wore a uniform through seven years of Catholic school. In HS, it consisted of a gray woolen blazer, while long-sleeved blouse, and gray woolen pleated skirt. I wore that same uniform for four years. Believe me, by the end of senior year and roughly 720 wearings, my single skirt was a baggy mess. Even nightly pressings failed to keep in the pleating. My white blouses were no longer sparkling and pristine. The white piping on my blazer was dingy and the blazer had lost any form it once had. OTOH, the wealthy girls had their uniforms tailored to fit them properly, the pleats were professionally reinforced, and their multiple uniforms were replaced at the first sign of wear. Then there were the better coats, shoes, gloves, and other accessories that re-emphasized the differences in financial status. I doubt that there were many people who couldn’t place, with a fair degree of accuracy, exactly where each person stood on the economic ladder.

I do believe that there are benefits to wearing uniforms, but equalization is not, IMO, one of them.
 
I wish uniforms were more common in public schools. Clothes were a big point of social division in the schools I attended and taught in, not to mention issues with strapless tanks, microminiskirts, pants below the bottom, and holes.

Uniforms don’t fix all those issues, but they can help a lot.
 
I wore uniforms at St. Agnes elementary school & Cathedral H.S. I liked wearing my uniforms; I was glad we had them. You knew the school by the uniform.
 
Uniforms are used to keep the kids from competing in this label conscious society,
They’re a good thing, IMHO
We had wool royal blue and green plaid uniforms when I was a kid. You could drop a sandwich mustard side DOWN on it, and it wouldn’t leave a stain.
Pretty practical. trouble is, the uniform stores really charge an arm and a leg for them anymore.
 
In the UK pretty much every school has a uniform and it is manditory.
 
tawny said:
I wore uniforms at St. Agnes elementary school & Cathedral H.S. I liked wearing my uniforms; I was glad we had them. You knew the school by the uniform.
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Yes, I liked my uniform. There were 3 Catholic schools in my area growing up and it gave us school identity.
 
pianistclare said:
Uniforms are used to keep the kids from competing in this label conscious society,
They’re a good thing, IMHO
We had wool royal blue and green plaid uniforms when I was a kid. You could drop a sandwich mustard side DOWN on it, and it wouldn’t leave a stain.
Pretty practical. trouble is, the uniform stores really charge an arm and a leg for them anymore.
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My white shirt could be rolled up into a ball, stepped on, squashed and poof-no wrinkles.
:). I have no idea what it was made of.
 
A neighboring school district to the one where I teach has tried uniform shirts in two of their elementary schools with the highest percentage of low-income families. Students are required to wear a t-shirt with the school logo, except on Fridays. They have a dozen colors to choose from and they cost $5 a piece. Students on free and reduced lunch get two for free. Apparently the program is met with approval, as they are considering implementing it in the other schools.
 
pianistclare said:
Uniforms are used to keep the kids from competing in this label conscious society,
They’re a good thing, IMHO.
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It’s a good thing as long as everyone has to follow the same rules. I’ve yet to find a school that does this. Our kids’ school has a fairly strict dress code and it’s enforced rigorously unless, of course, you’re one of the privileged families. By “privileged” I mean either the big donors, multi-generational parish families or the ones whose parents are non-stop volunteers (at least the ones who have earned their stripes and risen in the pecking order). Our son was almost expelled because he insisted on wearing his school sweatshirt tied around his shoulders. It was against the code but at least five other kids in his class wore theirs the same way and never got in trouble. We’ve been called on several minor infractions and had to take a change of clothes or extra item to our daughters several times. This includes wearing a sweatshirt that was the same color as the school sweatshirt but didn’t have the school logo (if it had been a sweater it would have been okay) even though half a dozen other kids in the class were wearing sweatshirts that weren’t the school colors; and wearing royal blue tights instead of navy blue. The day I took the navy blue tights to my daughter, another girl in her class was wearing leopard skin tights, a matching jacket, high heels and garish makeup, all of which were against the dress code but her mom was a longtime volunteer so her outfits were overlooked on a daily basis. Another day, the same easily-embarrassed, extremely modest daughter got a warning for her skirt being too high (it was at the top of her knee) and wearing too much makeup (she doesn’t wear any), while her two classmates with skirts so high they could have been mistaken for belts and makeup you typically don’t see outside of the red light district were ignored. Granted, we know several people who insist nothing like this goes on at the school, but they’re all on the privileged list.

We don’t have a set supplier for uniforms at the grade school level. While this lets us shop around and get better deals, it also eliminates some of the label anonymity that uniforms are supposed to provide. At the high school level there’s a single provider for the school uniforms. While everyone is dressed alike, we’re stuck having to pay 2-5 times more than if we could buy the clothes from a department store. When our son was in high school there were a couple years where we could only afford two shirts ($40 each) a pair of pants ($60) and a pair of shorts ($40). I’ve been told they have a new supplier so it won’t be quite as bad when our girls go there, but it’s still going to cost us a pretty exorbitant amount. I know a couple people who are sending their kids to public school because the uniform costs are a deal breaker.
 
Book_Worm said:
I do not believe that uniforms are the class distinction erasers they are touted to be.

I wore a uniform through seven years of Catholic school. In HS, it consisted of a gray woolen blazer, while long-sleeved blouse, and gray woolen pleated skirt. I wore that same uniform for four years. Believe me, by the end of senior year and roughly 720 wearings, my single skirt was a baggy mess. Even nightly pressings failed to keep in the pleating. My white blouses were no longer sparkling and pristine. The white piping on my blazer was dingy and the blazer had lost any form it once had. OTOH, the wealthy girls had their uniforms tailored to fit them properly, the pleats were professionally reinforced, and their multiple uniforms were replaced at the first sign of wear. Then there were the better coats, shoes, gloves, and other accessories that re-emphasized the differences in financial status. I doubt that there were many people who couldn’t place, with a fair degree of accuracy, exactly where each person stood on the economic ladder.

I do believe that there are benefits to wearing uniforms, but equalization is not, IMO, one of them.
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I know of girl’s high schools in my area where it is a point of pride to get to senior year with the original uniform and shoes you started with as a freshman. The scruffier the shoes, the better. A skirt that still sort of buttons and passes inspection - you win. It would be shameful to have a spiffy new, tailored uniform at these schools and trust me, based on tuition, their parents could afford them.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
It’s a good thing as long as everyone has to follow the same rules. I’ve yet to find a school that does this. Our kids’ school has a fairly strict dress code and it’s enforced rigorously unless, of course, you’re one of the privileged families. By “privileged” I mean either the big donors, multi-generational parish families or the ones whose parents are non-stop volunteers (at least the ones who have earned their stripes and risen in the pecking order). Our son was almost expelled because he insisted on wearing his school sweatshirt tied around his shoulders. It was against the code but at least five other kids in his class wore theirs the same way and never got in trouble. We’ve been called on several minor infractions and had to take a change of clothes or extra item to our daughters several times. This includes wearing a sweatshirt that was the same color as the school sweatshirt but didn’t have the school logo (if it had been a sweater it would have been okay) even though half a dozen other kids in the class were wearing sweatshirts that weren’t the school colors; and wearing royal blue tights instead of navy blue. The day I took the navy blue tights to my daughter, another girl in her class was wearing leopard skin tights, a matching jacket, high heels and garish makeup, all of which were against the dress code but her mom was a longtime volunteer so her outfits were overlooked on a daily basis. Another day, the same easily-embarrassed, extremely modest daughter got a warning for her skirt being too high (it was at the top of her knee) and wearing too much makeup (she doesn’t wear any), while her two classmates with skirts so high they could have been mistaken for belts and makeup you typically don’t see outside of the red light district were ignored. Granted, we know several people who insist nothing like this goes on at the school, but they’re all on the privileged list.

We don’t have a set supplier for uniforms at the grade school level. While this lets us shop around and get better deals, it also eliminates some of the label anonymity that uniforms are supposed to provide. At the high school level there’s a single provider for the school uniforms. While everyone is dressed alike, we’re stuck having to pay 2-5 times more than if we could buy the clothes from a department store. When our son was in high school there were a couple years where we could only afford two shirts ($40 each) a pair of pants ($60) and a pair of shorts ($40). I’ve been told they have a new supplier so it won’t be quite as bad when our girls go there, but it’s still going to cost us a pretty exorbitant amount. I know a couple people who are sending their kids to public school because the uniform costs are a deal breaker.
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Well, in all honesty, your kids were out of uniform in some instances from what you said. You don’t get a pass because other people aren’t following the dress code-- at least that’s what I told my kids.

Have you ever discussed the problem with the administration, or just with other unprivileged parents?

My kids did not have 5 sets of clothes for school. Lands End uniforms. Not cheap. Yes, they got washed more often. People that are saying they are sending their kids to public school because the uniforms cost too much are just using that as an excuse. Public school clothes can cost a lot. Especially if your kids don’t want to repeat their clothes too often.

Try and use it as a learning experience. Life isn’t fair. Learn how to follow the rules when everyone else doesn’t. Do the right thing even when you are annoyed by it.
 
Irishmom2 said:
Well, in all honesty, your kids were out of uniform in some instances from what you said. You don’t get a pass because other people aren’t following the dress code-- at least that’s what I told my kids.
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I agree, but it’s a hollow message to kids who are being taught fairness and equality in school only to see that the school isn’t adhering to those qualities.
Have you ever discussed the problem with the administration, or just with other unprivileged parents?
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Several times. I was told it wasn’t an issue and that it wasn’t going on, even when I pointed out specific examples to the principal/teacher who was punishing my kid. Yes, there are bigger, more worthy battles to fight, but when your kid is getting in trouble for being in uniform (as in the one day my daughter got a verbal warning for being in uniform when the girls around her weren’t), it’s hard to not speak up. The point I made to the one principal who half-admitted to the unbalanced treatment was that all of the kids should get the same treatment. The furthest he would go was to agree in principle; he wouldn’t commit to enforcing the same rules for all the kids.
My kids did not have 5 sets of clothes for school. Lands End uniforms. Not cheap. Yes, they got washed more often. People that are saying they are sending their kids to public school because the uniforms cost too much are just using that as an excuse. Public school clothes can cost a lot. Especially if your kids don’t want to repeat their clothes too often.
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The only time we have an abundance of clothes is when we have good hand me downs from the year before or we stumble into luck at the thrift store. I’m sure some just use them as an excuse but when the only sweatshirts and sweaters a kid can wear to school cost $80 or more, the total cost can be a legitimate barrier.
Try and use it as a learning experience. Life isn’t fair. Learn how to follow the rules when everyone else doesn’t. Do the right thing even when you are annoyed by it.
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Again, at that age it’s often a hollow message. The takeaway lesson the kids are generally getting is that you can break the rules if you have money or some other form of influence. It’s not a message kids should be bringing home from a Catholic school.
 
Why is it that your family is the only one ever treated unjustly?
Is everybody in your circle always wrong?
Statistically, that’s unlikely.
Just sayin’.

I’m unsubscribing.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
I agree, but it’s a hollow message to kids who are being taught fairness and equality in school only to see that the school isn’t adhering to those qualities.

And that is why I suggested that the message FROM YOU would be that life is not always fair, even when you are doing the right thing.

Several times. I was told it wasn’t an issue and that it wasn’t going on, even when I pointed out specific examples to the principal/teacher who was punishing my kid. Yes, there are bigger, more worthy battles to fight, but when your kid is getting in trouble for being in uniform (as in the one day my daughter got a verbal warning for being in uniform when the girls around her weren’t), it’s hard to not speak up. The point I made to the one principal who half-admitted to the unbalanced treatment was that all of the kids should get the same treatment. The furthest he would go was to agree in principle; he wouldn’t commit to enforcing the same rules for all the kids.

So what did the school board say when you went to them?

Again, at that age it’s often a hollow message. The takeaway lesson the kids are generally getting is that you can break the rules if you have money or some other form of influence. It’s not a message kids should be bringing home from a Catholic school.
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How would your kids know that it’s money or influence that is doing it unless you told them that? Are you sure you haven’t put that lesson into them yourself?
 
pianistclare said:
Why is it that your family is the only one ever treated unjustly?
Is everybody in your circle always wrong?
Statistically, that’s unlikely.
Just sayin’.
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I don’t see where I said that. I said that I’ve yet to find a Catholic school where there weren’t families that receive special treatment. It was that way at each of the parishes we belonged to when I was a kid, it’s that way at our parish and it’s that way at the parishes where my friends and family go. I have one friend whose oldest just entered school. She was thrilled because, after hearing about what us and others have been through she knew she had found the parish where this sort of thing doesn’t happen. Then it happened. She was devastated. I didn’t tell her I told her so, but I did tell her so. Now just about every time we talk I hear about another new transgression. For some reason I’m supposed to act surprised or outraged.

As for our parish, I never even said it was just us who see this treatment. I’m just telling what we’ve experienced. We’re friendly with one family who isn’t Catholic, sends their kids there on vouchers, doesn’t go to Mass, doesn’t volunteer, etc. Their experience has been much worse than ours to the point that one situation with their child wasn’t resolved until another parent talked to the principal. It’s not a constant, overbearing situation but you always know that when something special comes up which kids are going to be picked, or when there’s a dispute between two students, which one the administration is going to side with.

For the record, I’m not trying to single out Catholic schools. A lot of the people we know with kids in public schools have had similar experiences, and teachers we know, while denying it goes on at their schools, have told us about multiple occasions where they’ve given preferential treatment to the “right” families, generally at the expense of the black sheep. I think it’s wrong no matter where it goes on.
 
Irishmom2 said:
How would your kids know that it’s money or influence that is doing it unless you told them that? Are you sure you haven’t put that lesson into them yourself?
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The same way we knew when I was a kid: The kids with the nicest clothes whose parents drove the most expensive cars, or whose mothers were always at the school and involved in every single way were always the ones receiving preferential treatment. When I was a kid we had a small number of families who made up about 80% of the parish. If you weren’t a Smith, a Jones or a Brown, or a cousin of a Smith, Jones or Brown, you typically didn’t count; unless, of course, your parents put big checks in the basket every Sunday, or your mom had been homeroom mother, troop leader and volleyball coach for the last 15 years via six different kids. We didn’t need our mom to tell us that being a Sims didn’t matter when we missed out on something to the benefit of the preferred families. And, no, it wasn’t just our family. Most of my friends weren’t Smiths, Joneses or Browns so I got to see lots of examples.

Our older girls have been at the school long enough to see the pattern. They know that if it’s a situation where the teachers are picking kids to be involved with something, it’s always going to be the same group of kids. They know that if a situation comes down to their word against another student’s, if it’s from Group A, they’re always going to lose; Group B, they have a fair chance; Group C, they know it will go their way every time. As I said before, these aren’t the sort of lessons they should be learning in a Catholic school but I’ve yet to find a school where this isn’t the norm.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
The same way we knew when I was a kid: The kids with the nicest clothes whose parents drove the most expensive cars, or whose mothers were always at the school and involved in every single way were always the ones receiving preferential treatment. When I was a kid we had a small number of families who made up about 80% of the parish. If you weren’t a Smith, a Jones or a Brown, or a cousin of a Smith, Jones or Brown, you typically didn’t count; unless, of course, your parents put big checks in the basket every Sunday, or your mom had been homeroom mother, troop leader and volleyball coach for the last 15 years via six different kids. We didn’t need our mom to tell us that being a Sims didn’t matter when we missed out on something to the benefit of the preferred families. And, no, it wasn’t just our family. Most of my friends weren’t Smiths, Joneses or Browns so I got to see lots of examples.

Our older girls have been at the school long enough to see the pattern. They know that if it’s a situation where the teachers are picking kids to be involved with something, it’s always going to be the same group of kids. They know that if a situation comes down to their word against another student’s, if it’s from Group A, they’re always going to lose; Group B, they have a fair chance; Group C, they know it will go their way every time. As I said before, these aren’t the sort of lessons they should be learning in a Catholic school but I’ve yet to find a school where this isn’t the norm.
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I have seen the pattern, too, though, where the kids whose parents step up, volunteer, and contribute are also the students who do the same. They have the confidence to step forward and do that. They have the self-concept that their family does that. It is not unusual for the families who make up 80% of a parish to be the families who started it and the ones everyone knows will still be there supporting the school long after their children graduate. Yes, that builds a reputation in their favor.

People favor those who reach out to them, help them out, and treat them like more than servants. I know that some families are less involved because both parents work and the family resources are stretched thin, but other families fail to step up because they only want to make the minimum contribution they’re forced to make. Those who can’t do better and those who could do better and choose not to wind up in the same pot. It isn’t fair, but I don’t know how you help that. Those families you resent are the people who keep the parish running at all. If they all left, the school could not function. The parish could not function. Yes, if the student acts like the parent acts–that is, if they assume they’re supposed to pitch in when they’re not forced to do it–that builds a prejudice in their favor. And yes, the school can’t afford to lose those families who do more than is required. It is human nature that they’re going to be seen as more loyal to the school. It shouldn’t mean that their word is believed over anyone else’s, but I don’t see the big scandal when that happens. It isn’t just cow-towing to the wealthy. It is also favoring those who are (consciously or not) seen as being in it for the long run. Not fair, but human nature.

Back to school uniforms, though…although the advantage of narrowing the gap between the haves and the have nots is one of the advantages, another advantage is that the students act differently for school than for free time when they have to dress differently for school than for free time. That is true regardless of whether they dress better or worse when they’re not at school.
 
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