Catholic Sex and Masterbation

[fellowChristian]

I didn’t notice anyone quoting from Scripture about it.

How about this? When the brother died, Onan was suppose to step in for him.

**Genesis 38:8-10 **

8Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.”

9Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, **he wasted his seed on the ground **in order not to give offspring to his brother.

10But what he did was **displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also. **

scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html

 

[outfctrl]

I had a vasectomy years ago after my twins were born. I have no more seed.
So? I am 55 and kids are no longer an option.

So why is masturbation wrong? I dont have impure thoughts, it would strictly be a physical thing.

 

[Scottgun]

Simple. Masturbation is wrong because Our Heavenly Father did not create you and you sexual function for masturbation–people are tempted by it due to the Fall. It is a very difficult temptation because it is so close and immediate to us. But God wants us close to Him, not sneaking off alone tucked in a shadowy corner perverting His gifts. It is possible to stop doing this and never do it again. Stop doing it. Pray for all people struggling to overcome sexual impurity,

 

[outfctrl]

Simple. Masturbation is wrong because Our Heavenly Father did not create you and you sexual function for masturbation–people are tempted by it due to the Fall. It is a very difficult temptation because it is so close and immediate to us. But God wants us close to Him, not sneaking off alone tucked in a shadowy corner perverting His gifts. It is possible to stop doing this and never do it again. Stop doing it. Pray for all people struggling to overcome sexual impurity,

I do not masturbate anymore. I came back to the Church going on 5 weeks now. I have got rid of any porno I had on my computer (it was just a few) and I am in the processs of getting rid of about 100 playboys and Penthouses.
I really want to make my Faith work and am trying very hard, but I am human and the desires are still very much there.

I pray to our Mother Mary all the time to give me the strength to overcome these desires.

Its just, I cant see anything wrong with masturbation in my case.

 

[fellowChristian]

**To waste any seed is wrong. **

The Bible says:

**Genesis 38:9-10 **

9Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, **he wasted his seed on the ground **in order not to give offspring to his brother.

10But what he did was **displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also. **

Deuteronomy 23
Persons Excluded from the Assembly
1"No one who is emasculated or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD.

The Early Church Fathers say:

The Letter of Barnabas

“Moreover, he [Moses] has rightly detested the weasel [Lev. 11:29]. For he means, ‘Thou shall not be like to those whom we hear of as committing wickedness with the mouth with the body through uncleanness [orally consummated sex]; nor shall thou be joined to those impure women who commit iniquity with the mouth with the body through uncleanness’” (Letter of Barnabas 10:8 [A.D. 74]).

**
Clement of Alexandria**

“Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted” (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 [A.D. 191]).

“To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature” (ibid., 2:10:95:3).

Hippolytus

“[Christian women with male concubines], on account of their prominent ancestry and great property, the so-called faithful want no children from slaves or lowborn commoners, [so] they use drugs of sterility or bind themselves tightly in order to expel a fetus which has already been engendered” (Refutation of All Heresies 9:12 [A.D. 225]).

The Dictionary says:
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source
**adultery **

“voluntary violation of the marriage bed,” c.1300, avoutrie, from O.Fr. avoutrie, aoulterie, noun of condition from avoutre/aoutre, from L. adulterare “**to corrupt” **(see adulteration). Modern spelling, with the re-inserted -d-, is from c.1415 (see ad-). Classified as single adultery (with an unmarried person) and double adultery (with a married person). O.E. word was æwbryce “breach of law(ful marriage).”

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

**IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE DIGNITY OF MARRIAGE

Adultery **

2380 Adultery refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.170 The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.171 The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.172

2381 Adultery is an injustice. He who commits adultery fails in his commitment. He does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is, transgresses the rights of the other spouse, and undermines the institution of marriage by breaking the contract on which it is based. He compromises the good of human generation and the welfare of children who need their parents’ stable union.

When we have sex alone we are cheating on our spouse.

The Sixth Commandment says:
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html

 

[PennitentMan]

Allow me to address the quoted pieces:

**Genesis 38:9-10 **
9Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, **he wasted his seed on the ground **in order not to give offspring to his brother.
10But what he did was **displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also. **

Onan’s sin was “Coitus interruptus”. Pulling out when the Lord wanted him to conceive. It’s not anything to do with masturbation at all. He disobeyed God’s command and didn’t conceive when he was supposed to.

The Early Church Fathers say:
The Letter of Barnabas
“Moreover, he [Moses] has rightly detested the weasel [Lev. 11:29]. For he means, ‘Thou shall not be like to those whom we hear of as committing wickedness with the mouth with the body through uncleanness [orally consummated sex]; nor shall thou be joined to those impure women who commit iniquity with the mouth with the body through uncleanness’” (Letter of Barnabas 10:8 [A.D. 74]).

Where do they talk about masturbation here? They talk about “uncleanliness”, usually sex outside of marriage, or disobeying the sex laws as stipulated in the Old Testament.

**
Clement of Alexandria**
“Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted” (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 [A.D. 191]).
“To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature” (ibid., 2:10:95:3).

It’s a widely known fact that they believed that the male semen hold the full human life at this stage. They thought that the sperm was sacred due to that misconception.

Hippolytus
“[Christian women with male concubines], on account of their prominent ancestry and great property, the so-called faithful want no children from slaves or lowborn commoners, [so] they use drugs of sterility or bind themselves tightly in order to expel a fetus which has already been engendered” (Refutation of All Heresies 9:12 [A.D. 225]).

Talking about abortion essentially.

The Dictionary says:
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source
**adultery **
“voluntary violation of the marriage bed,” c.1300, avoutrie, from O.Fr. avoutrie, aoulterie, noun of condition from avoutre/aoutre, from L. adulterare “**to corrupt” **(see adulteration). Modern spelling, with the re-inserted -d-, is from c.1415 (see ad-). Classified as single adultery (with an unmarried person) and double adultery (with a married person). O.E. word was æwbryce “breach of law(ful marriage).”

This is about Adultery. Sure one can commit adultery in the mind, but it’s not linked to masturbation. Masturbation can definately take place without any fantasies.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
**IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE DIGNITY OF MARRIAGE
Adultery **
2380 Adultery refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.170 The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.171 The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.172
2381 Adultery is an injustice. He who commits adultery fails in his commitment. He does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is, transgresses the rights of the other spouse, and undermines the institution of marriage by breaking the contract on which it is based. He compromises the good of human generation and the welfare of children who need their parents’ stable union.

Again, this is about Adultery. Sure one can commit adultery in the mind, but it’s not linked to masturbation. Masturbation can definately take place without any fantasies.

When we have sex alone we are cheating on our spouse.

You are cheating on your wife when you commit adultery…in act or in mind. Masturbation is not linked to this perse

Nowhere in the Bible do they talk about “self-sex” or “alone-sex”.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

When we have sex alone we are cheating on our spouse.

Be careful here is saying that by masturbating we are “not” cheating on our wives. Say for example, have masturbated and 5 minutes later your wife comes to you with a desire to be intimate. To share that most loving act. Now since you have masturbated you are not in the “mood” and you deny her. Have you cheated her? Yes, you have cheated her. While it is not on the same “level” as adultery, you have still cheated on her, with yourself. As we all know, the “seed” belongs only one place. By selfishly “taking care” of this on your own you have cheated her and even cheated yourself.

 

[Zoopdedoopdeboo]

pureloveclub.com/chastity/index.php?id=7&entryid=49

pureloveclub.com/chastity/index.php?id=7&entryid=127

Pure Love Club

The Pure Life on EWTN

Jason and Crystalina Evert rock my socks!

 

[PennitentMan]

Be careful here is saying that by masturbating we are “not” cheating on our wives. Say for example, have masturbated and 5 minutes later your wife comes to you with a desire to be intimate. To share that most loving act. Now since you have masturbated you are not in the “mood” and you deny her. Have you cheated her? Yes, you have cheated her. While it is not on the same “level” as adultery, you have still cheated on her, with yourself. As we all know, the “seed” belongs only one place. By selfishly “taking care” of this on your own you have cheated her and even cheated yourself.

I agree with you that you should never let masturbation interfere with your relations with your wife and you must never choose masturbation over your wife. You would be denying your wife and that is something spoken against in the Bible.

But to think that the physical act of masturbation = adultery is something I do not agree with.

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

You are cheating on your wife when you commit adultery…in act or in mind.

Masterbation is generally accompanied by something to “get you going”, such as pornography or impure thoughts. That’s committing adultary in your mind, which you admit it cheating on your wife.

 

[PennitentMan]

Masterbation is generally accompanied by something to “get you going”, such as pornography or impure thoughts.

And in this scenario, it is most certainly adultery.

But do do not *have to have *lustful thoughts to be able to masturbate. The two can be separated.

PM

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

But do do not have to have lustful thoughts to be able to masturbate. The two can be separated.

Really? :ehh: I suppose ANYTHING’s possible, but I’m still doubtful that this is the reality in 99.99% of cases.

Think about the rules of sex: sex with a same-sex partner is wrong, sex with a child is wrong, sex with an animal is wrong, sex outside of marriage is wrong. To sum up: any sex other than a married adult man and woman is wrong. That would include masturbation as outside those rules. You are not a married man and woman all by yourself.

Not to mention if sex outside of wedlock is wrong, then would you feel that only married people can masturbate?

 

[PennitentMan]

Really? :ehh: I suppose ANYTHING’s possible, but I’m still doubtful that this is the reality in 99.99% of cases.

I have spoken to many guys on this and other forums that acknowledge this fact and I also personally can testify to that. Before my Catholic days, I did masturbate and I can tell you that it certainly is possible and not that difficultt to accomplish at all.

Think about the rules of sex: sex with a same-sex partner is wrong, sex with a child is wrong, sex with an animal is wrong, sex outside of marriage is wrong. To sum up: any sex other than a married adult man and woman is wrong. That would include masturbation as outside those rules. You are not a married man and woman all by yourself.

Every instance you mentioned above was specifically addressed in the bible…e.xcept masturbation. Not by example, by specifics, by sugested act or by hypothetical situation…not by Jesus or his Disciples, or any writer in the Bible, who was inspired by the Holy Sprirt ever mentioned this. You are making an assumption.

The Church only started teachings masturbation to be wrong around 600 AD.
Was it wrong before then? Nope.

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

The Church only started teachings masturbation to be wrong around 600 AD.

When Christ started the church, He didn’t wave His arms and poof the church to being exactly what it is today. It had to be built up and rules and to be written down and Traditions decided, etc. By 600 AD, there was barely a “Church”.

The Bible does say masturbation is wrong. You just choose to twist it around and ignore the real meaning. Where does the Bible say that life begins at conception. I doubt you can find a passage that says that as directly as you want it to say, “And Jesus declared 'Lo, I say unto you that masturbation is always a sin and no one in any time or any place should do it!”

 

[PennitentMan]

When Christ started the church, He didn’t wave His arms and poof the church to being exactly what it is today. It had to be built up and rules and to be written down and Traditions decided, etc. By 600 AD, there was barely a “Church”.

Don’t you think that when they addressed sexual sins in such minute details in Leviticus they would have added masturbation, if it was an issue?
Don’t you think St. Paul would have addressed masturbation in his Epistles if it was an issue?

The Bible does say masturbation is wrong.

Show me.

You just choose to twist it around and ignore the real meaning.

I can’t see where I twisted the Bible…it’s jsut too vague to make any sort of assumptions, musch less peg it as masturbation.
The Bible is silent on the issue.

Where does the Bible say that life begins at conception. I doubt you can find a passage that says that as directly as you want it to say, “And Jesus declared 'Lo, I say unto you that masturbation is always a sin and no one in any time or any place should do it!”

They talk about “knitting me together in my mother’s womb” and John the Baptists “Jumping in his mother’s womb” when Jesus was near…there was definately signs about life beginning before birth.

I ask again…don’t you think that when they addressed sexual sins in such minute details in Leviticus they would have added masturbation, if it was an issue?
Don’t you think St. Paul would have addressed masturbation in his Epistles if it was an issue?

 

[fellowChristian]

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) **and spilling his semen on the ground. **

Gen. 38:11-26 - Judah, like Onan, also rejected God’s command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.

Deut. 25:7-10 - the penalty for refusing to keep up a family lineage is not death, like Onan received. **Onan was killed for wasting seed. **

Gen. 38:9 - also, the author’s usage of the graphic word “seed,” which is very uncharacteristic for Hebrew writing, further highlights the reason for Onan’s death.

Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 - God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. Children are blessings from God, and married couples must always be open to God’s plan for new life with every act of marital intimacy.

Lev.18:22-23;20:13 - wasting seed with non-generative sexual acts warrants death.

Wasting Seed!!! Instead of being open to life.Spilling your seed!!

Why the denial?

How about this?
“They [certain Egyptian heretics] exercise genital acts, yet prevent the conceiving of children. Not in order to produce offspring, but to satisfy lust, are they eager for corruption.” Epiphanius of Salamis, Medicine Chest Against Heresies 26:5:2 (A.D. 375).

"God gave us eyes not to see and desire pleasure, but to see acts to be performed for the needs of life; so too, the genital ’generating’] part of the body, as the name itself teaches, has been received by us for **no other purpose **than the generation of offspring.” Lactantius, Divine 6:23:18 **(A.D. 307).

**

 

[outfctrl]

"God gave us eyes not to see and desire pleasure, but to see acts to be performed for the needs of life; so too, the genital ’generating’] part of the body, as the name itself teaches, has been received by us for **no other purpose **than the generation of offspring.” Lactantius, Divine 6:23:18 **(A.D. 307).

**

Lactantius was just a Christian Author.
Quote:
The Catholic Encyclopedia said, “The strengths and the weakness of Lactantius are nowhere better shown than in his work. The beauty of the style, the choice and aptness of the terminology, cannot hide the author’s lack of grasp on Christian principles and his almost utter ignorance of Scripture.”

 

[He_Man]

Are you looking for easons to justify your masturbation, or for support in the fight, because it is becoming harder to tell??

Where does the bible mention pornography, necrophylia, or any form of deviant behavior?

Regardless of whether or not you choose to adhere to scripture, the Catechism and Church have made it very clear. If we choose to look so rigidly at scripture for a roadmap, we will justify your own bad behavior, but deep down we will know we aren’t folling God, and will have to answer to Him one day why we thought we could be so coy about His gifts to us.

Can you honestly picture yourself having this argument with the Lord and claiming to believe what you are telling us?

 

[outfctrl]

Are you looking for easons to justify your masturbation, or for support in the fight, because it is becoming harder to tell??

Where does the bible mention pornography, necrophylia, or any form of deviant behavior?

Regardless of whether or not you choose to adhere to scripture, the Catechism and Church have made it very clear. If we choose to look so rigidly at scripture for a roadmap, we will justify your own bad behavior, but deep down we will know we aren’t folling God, and will have to answer to Him one day why we thought we could be so coy about His gifts to us.

Can you honestly picture yourself having this argument with the Lord and claiming to believe what you are telling us?

Not sure if you are directing this to me, but I am not questioning the Catholic Churches Laws. As far as pornography, necrophylia and deviant behavior goes, that is mentioned in the Scriptures as pure lust and is a sin.

I am a Catholic and I will always be a Catholic so, with that said, I abide by the laws set by the Pope.

Most of what Jesus said had to do with how we treat our relationship with another person. In fact, there are no passages in the Bible that discuss this topic directly. Jesus did not give his opinion on masturbation.

Although he gave hundreds of examples and stories to help us with our lives, to be responsible to one another and how to bring honor and glory to God, he didn’t seem to think the practice of the fine art called human sexuality and this particular practice of great importance.

From my point of view, masturbation only becomes a problem if you are doing it so often that you hurt yourself (bruising or making yourself irritated) and/or you no longer desire a healthy sexual sharing with the person you love. In other words, it replaces the sexual act with your partner in life.

If you are finding yourself preoccupied with masturbation then I would say you have an issue to deal with.

 

[mike_sieber]

I just thought I’d weigh in here because this is a problem that really hits home for me. As a divorced male with no intentions of re-marrying, who has engaged in this behavior since I was a child, I can testify to where the harm comes in.

It’s true that in Old Testament times people believed that a man’s ‘seed’ could be used up, which is probably why there was such laws against wasting it.

But the problem with masturbation is really twofold.

On the most basic level, there is a danger that it can become a habit, which is very difficult to break.

On the second level, while in my case there were instances that didn’t involve fantasy (mostly in my youth when I didn’t understand what was going on) lust almost always creeps in. And once you involve images and lustful thoughts, you need more and more to ‘get going’. A person can waste hours just trying to find something that’s gratifying and this isn’t time well spent.

As I said, I’m only speaking for myself, but I’d bet that if you asked people who struggle with this, they’d tell you that lust often plays a part.

Believe me, I wish the Church would change it’s teaching on this (a little levity here), but it’s not going to happen and for good reason - She simply knows better.