Catholic sexual morality - indefensible?

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I find it interesting that every sexual sin is mortal. That is the only action which does not include Venial sin, unless there are mitigating factors. I find it hard to believe that self abuse is a mortal sinv. There are some of us who have never marries and the sexual stress can be considerable. However, because I have an overly sensitive conscience, I find myself running frequently to Confession and making a perfect act of contrition.

Acuddymar
 
I find it interesting that every sexual sin is mortal. That is the only action which does not include Venial sin, unless there are mitigating factors. I find it hard to believe that self abuse is a mortal sinv. There are some of us who have never marries and the sexual stress can be considerable. However, because I have an overly sensitive conscience, I find myself running frequently to Confession and making a perfect act of contrition.

Acuddymar
I believe agangbern’s St Paul quote covers this as well. Is it any wonder that sex is so guarded, when it is the very means of life? Would life be as precious had God had laid less protection of it by that means?
 
I find it interesting that every sexual sin is mortal. That is the only action which does not include Venial sin, unless there are mitigating factors. I find it hard to believe that self abuse is a mortal sinv. There are some of us who have never marries and the sexual stress can be considerable. However, because I have an overly sensitive conscience, I find myself running frequently to Confession and making a perfect act of contrition.

Acuddymar
**And the score is:

YOU! 100% **

and God, zip, zerro, nadda!

Sex is a gift from God with strings attached…
“I God grant you this Gift to go forth and multiply.” anything, and every other use is a GREVIOUS ABUSE! (Mortal Sin!)

Genesis Chapter 1: "26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it

This is Gods desire. Abuse is always a Serious Sin.

Friend, do you understand that it is God (not his Priest) who forgives your sins?

Even, even if the priest grants Absolution, If, if, if, you are not sincerely working WITH GOD’s HELP to overcome this mortal sin, God may not be forgiving you? "Oh My God I am TRULY SORRY" are much more than mere words, they are your part of your Covenant Relationship with God. If you don’t believe me, ask your priest.

may God grant you pardon, mercy and peace.
 
I thought Good Daughter’s insight from another thread too good to not share here (along with my thoughts/response, which probably aren’t as good):
It does seem like there is a difference between withholding fertility and rejecting fertility. Maybe that’s the essential difference between NFP and ABC?
That’s a keen insight that merits deeper study.

The bottom line here is that the arguments pro- and con- hinge on first principles, axioms that are asserted as reasonable in order to get the argument started. If one doesn’t accept those first principles, the argument fails from the get-go. This, however, is not necessarily indicative of a flaw in those first principles.

Notice how often people who discuss the Church’s teaching on sexuality say things like, “I don’t see…”

Since when is the truth limited by what could very well be defects in the observer’s vision? I’m reminded of my last couple of years in the Army when my eye-sight slightly worsened. I walked around for weeks wondering why the world was out of focus. I’d complain at movie theaters. Finally, it dawned on me: The problem isn’t the movie; the problem is me. Corrective lenses fixed the out-of-focus problems.

Likewise, the Church’s first principles are like corrective lenses. Grant that they are true, and everything else comes into focus.

Finally, back to your keen insight above. Consider this, please. Sexual intercourse is, among other things, a form of communication. The Church tells us that this communication means something very specific by the very nature of the act itself. Removing the act from its proper context (marriage) distorts that meaning. Introducing to the act a rejection of fertility (artificial birth control) distorts that meaning.

During sex intercourse, I tell my wife by the marital act that I love her, that I will cherish her no matter what, and that everything I have is hers. In return, she tells me that she loves me, she will cherish me not matter what, and that she accepts all I have to give her. This is the intrinsic meaning of the sex act.

Sexual activity outside marriage makes that intrinsic meaning into a lie. Artificial birth control makes that intrinsic meaning into a lie.

In the former case, I say, “I love you, but only so far. My plans don’t include the sacramental life of marriage.” In the latter case, I say, “I love you, but only so far. I deny you my unconditional acceptance. I deny you all that I have to offer.”

I cannot prove this first principle of the intrinsic meaning of sexual intercourse is true. Likewise, no one can prove it’s false. But it can be demonstrated that it is reasonable, and, therefore, one is perfectly reasonable for accepting it as true.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
=Sair;4827899]To bring this right back to the subject of the thread - the OP’s claim that much of Catholic sexual morality is indefensible - I first posed my position on the subject by saying that, without reference to Catholic doctrine, there is a large amount of the Church’s sexual morality that indeed is indefensible. I maintain this position, as there has been nothing written in this thread that has challenged it. Everyone who has attempted to argue against my position has argued with reference to God.
Dear friend, maybe there is a reason for this:blush: 🤷

Everytime someone has unprotected sex does a pregnancy result? OF COURSE NOT.

WHY IS THIS?

Who “made you?” Mom and dad? Did God have a role in it?

**You me, mom and dad are “MATTER.” Yet we each have a mind, intellect, will, memory, that is speciffically “MINE” and each of them is a single SPIRITUAL ENITY:D

Raise you right arm, put it down, now raise your left arm and put it down.
You have just demonistrated that your MIND (which is SPIRIT) rules and controls the body functions.

SPIRIT is always SUPERIOR to MATTER. Why is less “superior” CAN’T produce what is superior to itself! IMPOSSIBLE!
A thing is WHAT it is
A thing Cannot be what it is NOT!

Simple logic friend.

Of course God is involved! GOD is our CREATOR, and actually keeps us in existence. Who decided when your going to die. Unaided, it is ONLY GOD!**
 
PJM: Ah, I think Sair is on this kick that for some reason all catholic teaching has to be backed up as viable in an atheistic context. I tried to tell him that often this atheistic context can be used to ‘support’ a teaching, as indeed many worldly systems have been used to support teachings, but certainly not that ALL teachings have to work in that context and certainly aren’t the origin of the teaching. I don’t know where he gets that information.
 
CHURCH SHOULD STAY OUT OF MARRIED BEDROOMS

The issue is simple for most married couples. If they decide that they have the family they want and can provide for, are they required to take a major risk of another pregnancy everytime they make love? That becomes a major source of anxiety for many who already have 3-4 children and feel they are irresponsible if they have more.
Code:
The Catholic Church has caused millions to defy it by forbidding artificial birth control. They would like to follow the church's teaching but it is against - in their view - both common sense and the best interest of their family. I believe that this church insistence, more than any other single factor, has caused so many either to leave the church entirely or to take its rules less seriously. 

 Anyone who is married knows that making love among husbands and wives often is a spontaneous act arising out of intimate love. On the one hand, the church says it supports and encourages marital love. At the same time its condemnation of modern methods of birth control can stand in the way of such expressions of love. The church had just as well condemn modern medicine, too. Both are for the welfare of individuals and the wider society.

 The church should work to cut down on teenage and out-of-wedlock promiscuous sex and ill-planned pregnancies, but as for married couples it had best stay out of their bedrooms. There is something almost obscene about celibate clergy telling married people how to conduct their intimate lives as long as they remain faithful to their spouses and their faith.
 
The Catholic Church has caused millions to defy it by forbidding artificial birth control.
There’s that ever-popular post hoc fallacy.
I believe that this church insistence, more than any other single factor, has caused so many either to leave the church entirely or to take its rules less seriously.
Even if true, it doesn’t have anything to do with the truth of what the Church teaches.
At the same time its condemnation of modern methods of birth control can stand in the way of such expressions of love.
And it can also not stand in the way, based not on Church teaching, but on personal choice. Again, this objection has nothing to do with the truth of what the Church teaches.
The church had just as well condemn modern medicine, too. Both are for the welfare of individuals and the wider society.
Very close to a circular argument. One cannot legitimately conflate artificial birth control with medicine, and attempt to transfer the presumed benefits of the latter to the former.
The church should work to cut down on teenage and out-of-wedlock promiscuous sex and ill-planned pregnancies, but as for married couples it had best stay out of their bedrooms. There is something almost obscene about celibate clergy telling married people how to conduct their intimate lives as long as they remain faithful to their spouses and their faith.
Again, not a rational argument. Rather, it degenerates from unsupported claims into something close to ad hominem against the clergy.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Let me put this in entirely secular terms:
  1. there is no such thing as perfect contraception: it (unlike the pope 😉 ) is not infallible. Accidents happen.
  2. therefore, EVERY SINGLE TIME that you fornicate there is the risk of pregnancy, of kicking of a new life into existance.
So you should be able to look at each and every sexual partner and say right here and now I am prepared for you to become the father/mother of my child.

Then the question is, if the roll of the dice, it did not go your way, and a pregnancy occurred, what do you do?

If you are a woman you will live with the consequences of that pregnancy, whether carried to term or not, whether you raise the child yourself or not, for the rest of your life. You cannot turn back time to make yourself unpregnant, you cannot erase the reality of that life that was inside you.
At the risk of sounding intolerably smug…

It is now almost 12 years since I lost my virginity, and have had exacly zero pregnancies. I have either been extremely lucky, very careful, or I’m just not able to conceive for some as-yet-unknown medical reason. Through those years I’ve gained some very valuable insights and experiences, many of which I will treasure as happy memories for the rest of my life. And, no, my relationships have never been just about the sex.

I am now blissfully married to a man I can confidently call the love of my life (such confidence has been gained through experience, you see). He and I are of one mind in knowing that we never want to be parents, so in using contraception, neither of us are withholding from the other anything that we might desire.

So, in all honesty, I just can’t pretend to regret abandoning Catholic teachings…
 
At the risk of sounding intolerably smug…

It is now almost 12 years since I lost my virginity, and have had exacly zero pregnancies. I have either been extremely lucky, very careful, or I’m just not able to conceive for some as-yet-unknown medical reason. Through those years I’ve gained some very valuable insights and experiences, many of which I will treasure as happy memories for the rest of my life. And, no, my relationships have never been just about the sex.

I am now blissfully married to a man I can confidently call the love of my life (such confidence has been gained through experience, you see). He and I are of one mind in knowing that we never want to be parents, so in using contraception, neither of us are withholding from the other anything that we might desire.

So, in all honesty, I just can’t pretend to regret abandoning Catholic teachings…
You sound happy in your circumstances. But recognise that you have been lucky - and that yours is not the experience of many many women and men (including myself) who have sexual relations outside of marriage, something I believe contributes to the large number of abortions.

The failure rate of two of the most commonly used contraceptives is as follows (from the fda):
Condom: number of pregnancies expected per 100 women per year: 11
Combined oral contraceptives: number of pregnancies expected per 100 women per year: 1-2

I, being a belt and braces kind of girl, was using BOTH, I am highly educated, certainly educated enough to follow simple instructions :-), I was not young, stupid, drunk or drugged, and still got pregnant. Put yourself in my shoes, not with your beloved husband, but with somebody else… Just to make it clear that this is not born of bitterness: things have worked out pretty well for me in the end, and I have been blessed more than I can say by my children. But all that is despite, rather than because of, my choices. I can only imagine how it could have worked out I had not been so fortunate in my family and circumstances.

The fact is that the church ministers to millions of women and men throughout the world, not all of whom have your luck (or indeed mine). Even though the probability of what happened to me is very small (like winning the lottery) you multiply that over the number of women in the world and failure rates are a not insignificant problem, and lead to a great deal of suffering. The rules that it makes are clear and uinversal. We may think, oh but that doesn’t apply to me, or that will never happen to us, it is irrelevant. Well, it does, and it can, and it isn’t!!

It is simply not true that we can flawlessly control our biology at this moment, and buying into the illusion that we are free to make the choice to have sex whenever and wherever and whenever we wish without consequence denies the truth of the situation. Don’t we owe more to ourselves, to each other and to our children?
 
You sound happy in your circumstances. But recognise that you have been lucky - and that yours is not the experience of many many women and men (including myself) who have sexual relations outside of marriage, something I believe contributes to the large number of abortions.

The fact is that the church ministers to millions of women and men throughout the world, not all of whom have your luck (or indeed mine). Even though the probability of what happened to me is very small (like winning the lottery) you multiply that over the number of women in the world and failure rates are a not insignificant problem, and lead to a great deal of suffering. The rules that it makes are clear and uinversal. We may think, oh but that doesn’t apply to me, or that will never happen to us, it is irrelevant. Well, it does, and it can, and it isn’t!!
People must be free to make their own choices. Even many within the Catholic church make choices that run counter to the doctrines they have been taught (of course, a lot depends upon parents and teachers - when I was growing up, my parents were extremely scrupulous about bringing me up with a Catholic conscience, but although I went to Catholic schools, I had quite a few teachers whose attitudes towards sex and relationships were decidedly more relaxed than my own).

The fact is that people are going to make choices, and no matter how hard the church - and the religious right in general - tries to clamp down on the ease with which those choices are available, all they mostly succeed in doing is withholding information that might alter the choices people make. Consider the cultural norms that exist in some developing countries, where women are expected to submit to sex whenever their husbands desire it (and where women are considered objects to a far greater extent than they are in the supposedly decadent West). Either the women must cope with an endless round of pregnancies, and then face the difficulties of raising their children in a largely unfavourable environment, or they can try to take some control of the situation. Resistance may very well lead to rape or other forms of assault, so birth control could be a useful alternative. Trouble is, many moralists in the West want to refuse access to birth control in these circumstances. This doesn’t exactly allow the women much exercise of free will, does it? Fair enough, it may be a band-aid measure, but cultural change takes a long time to effect, and in the meantime…

In any case, the further point I wanted to make was that I am very well aware that choices have consequences. This is something else that needs to be built into a comprehensive education, whether about sex particularly or about life in general. One’s ability to cope with consequences - and the nature of those consequences for all persons involved - should inform the decisions we make about how we act. When it comes to the possibility of sex leading to pregnancy, with or without contraception, there are several approaches that can be - and have been - taken.

Lots of people advocate for abstinence-only sex education, which generally takes the view that abstinence is the only practical option, and provides very little actual, judgement-free information about birth control. As a consequence, teenagers often choose to have sex anyway, either through defiance (I suspect that I was the exception to the rule in my lack of teenage rebellion) or simple curiosity about something they haven’t experienced and about which they haven’t been told everything. Bingo - teen pregnancy.

Comprehensive sex education has been shown to be very effective in allowing young people to make informed choices. As a result, they tend to delay sexual experience, and are much more careful about it if they decide to go ahead. Some like to call this value-free sex education, but that doesn’t necessarily follow. It might not contain religious values, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t teach kids how to respect and manage their bodies, and those of others.

Accepting consequences is much easier if you know what they are ahead of time. Knowing that pregnancy is a consequence of sex, you arm yourself to deal with that eventuality, ahead of time. Can you, in good conscience, use artificial birth control? Can you, if ABC fails, bring yourself to resort to emergency contraception or early-term abortion? Alternatively, are you in a position, emotionally, physically, financially, to raise a child? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then it probably is the wisest choice to refrain from having sex. If you can cope with any or all of these alternatives, then your choice comes down to other criteria.

But as I said before, when it comes to sexual experience, amongst other things, people should be free to make choices, armed with good information and prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions. Sex, perhaps moreso than most other choices we have to make in life, is an intensely personal and individual thing, for which consequences will be different for every person, and in which external agents - be they cultural or religious or both - should have little business interfering. And guidance is very different to interference. Practical advice and honest appraisal is a very different thing from a threat of eternal damnation.
 
At the risk of sounding intolerably smug…

It is now almost 12 years since I lost my virginity, and have had exacly zero pregnancies. I have either been extremely lucky, very careful, or I’m just not able to conceive for some as-yet-unknown medical reason. Through those years I’ve gained some very valuable insights and experiences, many of which I will treasure as happy memories for the rest of my life. And, no, my relationships have never been just about the sex.

I am now blissfully married to a man I can confidently call the love of my life (such confidence has been gained through experience, you see). He and I are of one mind in knowing that we never want to be parents, so in using contraception, neither of us are withholding from the other anything that we might desire.

So, in all honesty, I just can’t pretend to regret abandoning Catholic teachings…
You can wait and see as the years of your marriage accumulate further. Today you may feel confidently blissful. That is as far as your life world is concerned. When someday things get low in your life, remember He is there ready to carry you.

True happiness rests alone in God. Once a person has understood or tasted this kind of happiness, he would be ready and willing even to suffer crucifixion if necessary just to keep up with that happiness.
 
But as I said before, when it comes to sexual experience, amongst other things, people should be free to make choices, armed with good information and prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions. Sex, perhaps moreso than most other choices we have to make in life, is an intensely personal and individual thing, for which consequences will be different for every person, and in which external agents - be they cultural or religious or both - should have little business interfering. And guidance is very different to interference. Practical advice and honest appraisal is a very different thing from a threat of eternal damnation.
As you must have known and experienced yourself, the Church simply lays down its teachings on morality and expect her members to abide by them. You were not prevented by the Church from leaving her. Freedom to choose is there: To remain with the Church or to leave her. Others go even further to attempt to destroy her.

Remember the father in the story of the prodigal son? The son used his freedom, demanded for his share of the inheritance, went away and lived according as he pleased. The father continued loving him.

The Church is like that.
 
People must be free to make their own choices.

In any case, the further point I wanted to make was that I am very well aware that choices have consequences.

Accepting consequences is much easier if you know what they are ahead of time.

Practical advice and honest appraisal is a very different thing from a threat of eternal damnation.
You misunderstand the nature of Catholic morality. We are not threatened with eternal damnation as punishment, we are warned that the consequences of our choices will lead to that end. That is, it is not that we are thrown into hell but that we go there voluntarily as a consequence of our own free choices. Burning yourself is not punishment for playing with matches; it is the consequence of the choice you made.
Comprehensive sex education has been shown to be very effective in allowing young people to make informed choices.
As clearly demonstrated by the following estimates:

rampant sexual crime (up 236 percent in public schools since 1994), the extraordinary rise in illegitimate births (now one out of three), abortion (one and a half million per year)

insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5434&Itemid=48

Ender
 
The catholic church reserves the right to teach sexual morality to it’s adherents, any and all have the right to accept or not as he or she sees fit.Then also must one accept the consequences of one’s actions which may include separation from our Creator.
In pointing out how well informed today’s society is as regards sexual mores, it would be also realistic to accept that our relaxed attitudes are having devastating consequences in our society for the unborn. Here in Australia we accept up to 100,000 abortions (population ~ 20Mill.) per year with some states having passed legislation to abort up to full term.
Many couples unable to conceive would love to adopt, but it appears that abortion is the preferred method of coping with unwanted pregnancies!

Catholic sexual morality - indefensible?–I don’t think so !!!

Gerry
 
Maybe the serious well thought out discussion found on every side of this issue prove something. Catholics, unlike many other Christians or secular philosophers, have formed a conscience and think very seriously about ramafications. THATS GREAT!

Maybe The Church maintains rigid stances to fuel this kind of contemplation. It doesn’t lower Christ to our human level, but asks us to reach upward to CHRIST.

Brilliant:thumbsup:
 
But as I said before, when it comes to sexual experience, amongst other things, people should be free to make choices, armed with good information and prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions. Sex, perhaps moreso than most other choices we have to make in life, is an intensely personal and individual thing, for which consequences will be different for every person, and in which external agents - be they cultural or religious or both - should have little business interfering. And guidance is very different to interference. Practical advice and honest appraisal is a very different thing from a threat of eternal damnation.
Basically you’re arguing for a morality of consequences (utilitarianism) against a morality of principles. This is a much bigger ethical debate than just sex. The basic problem with utilitarianism is how intensely selfish it is, and (ironically) impersonal it is, as it will sacrifice people when necessary. When someone fornicates for example, there is always the chance of pregnancy, which is unfair for the conceived person no matter how one looks at it. There is no guarantee that the mother will give birth or the father will stick around to raise the child without a marriage vow.

Just because you have been lucky in your own experience with consequentalism thus far, is no proof that it is better in general. The exception proves the rule. Anyway, obeying the Law requires principalism, and criminals are always consequentalists.
 
Basically you’re arguing for a morality of consequences (utilitarianism) against a morality of principles. This is a much bigger ethical debate than just sex.
Yes, this is exactly the point. The issue here is not so much about sex as it is about morality; sex in this case is merely the vehicle that drives the conversation. It is our system of morality that determines our destinations. That Sair ends up in locations we consider off limits is because she has a different tour guide.

Ender
 
I know I’m late on the scene, but I thought I’d add some of my observations.
Comprehensive sex education has been shown to be very effective in allowing young people to make informed choices. As a result, they tend to delay sexual experience, and are much more careful about it if they decide to go ahead. Some like to call this value-free sex education, but that doesn’t necessarily follow. It might not contain religious values, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t teach kids how to respect and manage their bodies, and those of others…
  1. So, what you’re saying is: abstinence is the ideal choice as you are claiming the delay of sexual experience as a good thing.
Lots of people advocate for abstinence-only sex education, which generally takes the view that abstinence is the only practical option, and provides very little actual, judgement-free information about birth control. As a consequence, teenagers often choose to have sex anyway, either through defiance (I suspect that I was the exception to the rule in my lack of teenage rebellion) or simple curiosity about something they haven’t experienced and about which they haven’t been told everything. Bingo - teen pregnancy. .
  1. Also, assuming you are right, sex education has been standard practice in public, and even private Catholic, schools for the past twenty years at least. Starting in third grade. The estimated 2 million homeschoolers, grade k-12 can’t be the group solely responsible for 1.2 million abortions performed in the U.S.
Can you provide a shred of evidence in historical trends to indicate that the more sex ed in fact leads to lower pregnancy rates? I suggest the opposite is the truth.

Roy5 “There is something almost obscene about celibate clergy telling married people how to conduct their intimate lives as long as they remain faithful to their spouses and their faith.”
  1. This is an ad hominem attack. It is a logical fallacy. The truth of a statement does not depend upon the person making the statement. You provide no proof that what the Church teaches is not the truth.
  2. Someone brought up men’s prostate health is improved by sexual activity.
Honestly, no one believes for an instant that those who make this argument give a care about prostate health. It is only used to justify the behavior.

So, you say: “Men who do not masturbate, have sex on demand, or are celibate, are stupid for increasing their risk of prostate cancer.”

By this same reasoning: Women who do not have children and nurse them for at least a year are stupid for increasing their risk of breast cancer. But I have a feeling everyone and their cousin would chafe under this statement.
  1. Most of the arguments against the Catholic position boil down to a simple claim that “the ends justify the means.” This is a distorted philosophy which the Catholic Church has always rejected. Claiming it as the basis for a claim that the Church is wrong is ridiculous unless you start at the beginning in proving that it is a viable basis for morality. Good luck with that.
The truth is that the ends do not justify the means and it is never acceptable to do evil, even in the hope of bringing about good. The belief to the contrary undermines the logical foundation of morality but I’m sure it would make for a very interesting thread.
  1. Whether anyone accepts these arguments or not, I believe this thread has shown that, at the very least, the Catholic position is defensible. If anyone still doubts this, they are abusing either all who are defending it, or the English definition of the word.
God bless,
Red Beard
 
At the risk of diverting the thread onto a new specific topic a little, I’m far from convinced that the Catholic position on sexuality is defensible.

For example, the teaching implies (and indeed insists) that a married woman with children who has a medical condition that means she will certainly die if she falls pregnant again must not have a sterilization.

I’ve read Catholic “justifications” for this time and time again…the ends don’t justify the means…can’t separate procreative and unitive…etc.

My view is that in these circumstances, surgical sterilization is not only acceptable, it’s commendable. Why not nfp or abstinence? Because these methods are more unreliable: people forget, get drunk, act irrationally (and even get raped by their husbands at times). I recoil in horror at the thought of someone in authority (e.g. a priest) encouraging any woman against this option for moral reasons.

So, am I a relativising, utilitarian monster? No, I don’t think so. Assuming moral naturalism for a moment, I just think the Church has hung its hat on the wrong natural moral statements.

An analogy would be: Noone thinks “Killing is wrong” is a basic moral truth without any qualification, as it leaves no room for self-defence or just war. So we qualify it to another statement, or redefine our notion of killing. It’s the same here, but the Church can’t change it’s teaching - it’s stuck up the creek now having gone too far with this procreative/unitive notion, and the allied thought that every act must satisfy these natural criteria, rather than the marital attitude taken over a whole lifetime.

I prepare for an onslaught about my horrendous views. However, I bet right now that I won’t see anything new - the arguments have been going on for too long. Do mainstream Catholics take them seriously? Well, in the UK, about 75%+ of mass attendants use artificial contraception, and we even have Bishops who advocate not teaching about Catholic sexuality on the grounds that it’s counterproductive. That doesn’t sound like preaching the Faith to me.

I think a majority of Catholics would agree with me and would consider surgical options in this scenario. Of course, they’re wrong (by the tenets of their faith), but it’s not unusual for people to internalise contradictions away and live with them.
 
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