Catholic Sharia Law

[Eugenius]

Years ago I came across a news piece that told about the stoning of a married Muslim woman who had commited adultary. I was outraged, but then I remembered that the Bible also calls for such punishment and suddenly did not know what to think.

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

I often see the term ‘cafeteria Christian’ applied to people who dissent from this or that church teaching. The impression is that people are “picking and choosing” which part of the faith they are going to follow, but then I realized in the above example that Catholics also pick and choose which laws we are going to enforce. The Lord tells us that anyone who divorces and remarries while their former spouse is still alive has committed adultery and the penalty for this is death. However, I rarely hear the Catholic hierarchy advocating for divorce limitations, let alone penalties for adultery!!!

Ever since, I have been wondering why the Church doesn’t have its own form of Sharia law that governs not only adultary and divorce, but also other aspects of sex, diet, clothing, purity, uncleanliness, etc., and then actively enforce it.

 

[midori]

The Bible’s lots of things. It’s history (books of Kings, Chronicles, Samuel, etc). It’s poetry and song. (Psalms.) It’s advice and wisdom (Wisdom, Proverbs, etc). There’s prophetic books (Isaiah, Jeremiah). There’s correspondence (lots of Peter and Paul letters). There’s Jewish law (Deuteronomy).

Why would Catholics preserve all of Jewish law? Jewish law calls for the stoning of the adulterous woman, but Jesus called for love. The Bible also says you can’t eat pork or shellfish, but Peter had his vision about how there was no longer to be a restriction or division between unclean vs. clean foods. The Bible says an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Jesus also reversed that with his call to love your enemies and to turn the other cheek. Jewish law calls for circumcision, and there was massive controversy in the early Church about it-- but Catholics don’t require babies or converts to the circumcised, right? Jewish law required its priesthood to come from the line of Aaron, and it requires its adherents to celebrate certain feasts. When was the last time you made a cereal offering or celebrated the Feast of Booths/Tabernacles? And are our priests limited to a certain genealogy?

But it’s not a contradiction. It’s an evolution in man’s relationship with God. It’s important for Christians to understand our religion’s Jewish roots— but it’s also important to understand that the New Testament modifies and replaces man’s previous covenant with God with an entirely different sort of relationship. Ultimately, you’re responsible for fraternal correction of your brother— but you’re also responsible to take care of your own logs before you deal with other people’s specks. You need to be responsible enough to fulfill your own obligations and encourage others to fulfill theirs— no one should need the Church standing over them to make sure they eat fish on the right days, or go to Confession at the proper intervals.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Still, there’s a lot of picking and choosing.

 

[PaulinVA]

Stoning of adulterers was/is* Jewish* law. Christians are told that marriage is forever, but do not stone people that commit adultery.

Jesus fulfilled the Jewish law. It does not apply to Christians.

Christian law, if you will, resolves around forgiveness, not punishment, as least here on earth.

 

[Dorothy]

Years ago I came across a news piece that told about the stoning of a married Muslim woman who had commited adultary. I was outraged, but then I remembered that the Bible also calls for such punishment and suddenly did not know what to think.

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

I often see the term ‘cafeteria Christian’ applied to people who dissent from this or that church teaching. The impression is that people are “picking and choosing” which part of the faith they are going to follow, but then I realized in the above example that Catholics also pick and choose which laws we are going to enforce. The Lord tells us that anyone who divorces and remarries while their former spouse is still alive has committed adultery and the penalty for this is death. However, I rarely hear the Catholic hierarchy advocating for divorce limitations, let alone penalties for adultery!!!

Ever since, I have been wondering why the Church doesn’t have its own form of Sharia law that governs not only adultary and divorce, but also other aspects of sex, diet, clothing, purity, uncleanliness, etc., and then actively enforce it.

Catholics are not under Old Testament law therefore there is no stoning, but we do have canon law. If a couple divorces and are not free to re-marry and do so anyway, then they are not free to receive the Sacraments of the Church. We hope they would reconsider their current state, and make other decisions.
Divorce is not encouraged,…couples are urged to do everything possible to bring back good communication in their marriage. There is Marriage Encounter and other programs.

There are some Catholics who due to constant physical abuse divorce for civil reasons, and do not re-marry or date. They can still practice their Catholic faith.

I totally agree with you about the importance of the way people clothe themselves. Very few priests appear to have the courage to anything about the outrageously immodest way some people come to Mass.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Stoning of adulterers was/is* Jewish* law. Christians are told that marriage is forever, but do not stone people that commit adultery.

Jesus fulfilled the Jewish law. It does not apply to Christians.

Christian law, if you will, resolves around forgiveness, not punishment, as least here on earth.

What of Matthew 5:18? “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”

Also, how can the teachings against homosexuality be justified by the Bible unless they are justified by the Old Testament? Does Jesus ever reference homosexuality?

 

[valentino]

Years ago I came across a news piece that told about the stoning of a married Muslim woman who had commited adultary. I was outraged, but then I remembered that the Bible also calls for such punishment and suddenly did not know what to think.

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

I often see the term ‘cafeteria Christian’ applied to people who dissent from this or that church teaching. The impression is that people are “picking and choosing” which part of the faith they are going to follow, but then I realized in the above example that Catholics also pick and choose which laws we are going to enforce. The Lord tells us that anyone who divorces and remarries while their former spouse is still alive has committed adultery and the penalty for this is death. However, I rarely hear the Catholic hierarchy advocating for divorce limitations, let alone penalties for adultery!!!

Ever since, I have been wondering why the Church doesn’t have its own form of Sharia law that governs not only adultary and divorce, but also other aspects of sex, diet, clothing, purity, uncleanliness, etc., and then actively enforce it.

stoning was a law that the Jews followed before Christ but it wasn/t God’s law or Christ’s law.There are penalties for adultery.Its a mortal sin.

 

[lauraabarlow]

Hi-reading with interest and also deep gratitude of Jesus’ love for mankind. I was a fallen-away catholic in a baptist faith but came back in 2005, I was also married invalidly to my husband but while pregnant with our third child, he left and filed for divorce. I felt so abandoned and alone-still dealing with the hurt and pain for I didn’t want the divorce and wanted healing in the marriage. All this took place in 2002. The reason I was married invalidly (1990) was because both mom and sister had terminal cancer-we married in my dad’s lutheran church. I later tried to see about getting our marriage valid in the catholic church but me and my husband with serious issues and lots of mental abuse and everything, I gave that all up. I even became baptist in hopes of one less differences to divide us. Divorce hurt me, and my children-my 17-yr-old is still affected by that. I have came back and now receive the sacraments. My 8-yr-old daughter just received her first holy communion 3 wks ago, and as for my 17-yr-old-I am seeking lots of prayers-there are lots of pain and anger and everything-and some of my choices, although my intentions was good could have been done differently. My middle son-age 15 with high-functioning autism lives with his dad. Both my ex and my own father blames me for my son’s autism-which really hurts a lot. And I also learned through the VA (I"m an air force veteran and reservist) that I also have mild aspergers, along with my 8-yr-old daughter. My oldest also has social anxiety issues-a lot of it compounded by the chaos of the marriage and divorce. We are in counseling, attending church (my younger daughter and I) and I am guessing why Jesus may have went from shunning or punishing to love and forgiveness is because He knew that as much as God hates divorce, He still loves the person. I hate divorce, too-and is feeling remorseful of a lot of pain it caused me and my children, and how the cycle affected all of us. My oldest said that since the divorce, I’ve changed-I am not the same mom I used to be-and I try so hard to bounce back to the mom I was before yet it is so hard. Trying to make ends meet, the budget, and everything else-no support from family, only church and “air force family” and friends and neighbors, so I lean on God and feel at least at peace with Jesus’ love for me and my kids. I had never been unfaithful to my husband or anything-it is just the issues he kept running me down over-a lot of it (I’m not using this as an excuse) is little things I couldn’t help myself over such as him coming up behind me and I’d stiffen being caught off-guard-stuff like that pertaining to aspergers. I will never get in another relationship ever again-just know that it would be better to stay single and try to find healing for my kids. Especially my two teen agers-all that anger with my oldest-oh boy! I am just thankful for God’s love and not having the sharia laws in place-I’d been in a grave otherwise, I guess. :bighanky::grouphug:

 

[Krakatoa]

The Church has done away with most of the Mosaic Law. (The Ten Commandments are an exception). I don’t think God ever reveled in ‘An eye for an eye’, or for stoning adulterers, but He worked with what He had. Most transgressions are now rightly dealt with in the confessional.

 

[DENNYINMI]

What of Matthew 5:18? “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”

Also, how can the teachings against homosexuality be justified by the Bible unless they are justified by the Old Testament? Does Jesus ever reference homosexuality?

True. But Jesus has said that the “laws” will now be written on our hearts…which he has.

Law or no “Jewish” law…would homo-sexuality, abortion, adultery…be right with you?

I would bet not…an example of the laws now written on our hearts!

 

[WoundedIcon]

In the Church there is dogma (which is permanent) and discipline (which can be rescinded.) The Mosaic Law was disciplinary and given through angelic intermediaries, tailored for a specific time and culture. Jesus was the only person who managed to uphold the Law in every aspect because it was designed to show us God’s highest ideal and reveal how sinful we are by the fact that it was so difficult to keep. It was primarily designed to preserve the Jewish nation until the time of Christ’s coming. But what is truly important about it is the spirit of it. The heart of the laws so to speak, the reasons why the laws were important. They were instructed to kill adulterers because it was a sort of interpersonal and societal murder in and of itself. We’ve already seen one example from a lady on here as to the destruction marital discord can wreak upon families. And if the Jews didn’t deal with such things swiftly pagan tendencies and societal imbalance would set in and corrupt their culture, putting it in danger of collapse. The children would be damaged, their children would be too, and sin would infect everything just like it is in western society today. But Jesus always wanted to aim us toward the reasons for the law, the love behind them. It’s horribly unloving to cheat on your spouse, allow someone to use you, and abandon and/or injure your children. It’s a form of spiritual murder essentially.

 

[Newbie2]

What of Matthew 5:18? “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”

Also, how can the teachings against homosexuality be justified by the Bible unless they are justified by the Old Testament? Does Jesus ever reference homosexuality?

St. Paul did.

 

[Dorothy]

St. Paul did.

Yes, and besides the fact that St. Paul mentioned the sinfulness of homosexual activity, the Magisterium of our Church points that out as well. The authentic Magisterium is the voice of Christ on matters of faith and morals.

 

[Dorothy]

Hi-reading with interest and also deep gratitude of Jesus’ love for mankind. I was a fallen-away catholic in a baptist faith but came back in 2005, I was also married invalidly to my husband but while pregnant with our third child, he left and filed for divorce. I felt so abandoned and alone-still dealing with the hurt and pain for I didn’t want the divorce and wanted healing in the marriage. All this took place in 2002. The reason I was married invalidly (1990) was because both mom and sister had terminal cancer-we married in my dad’s lutheran church. I later tried to see about getting our marriage valid in the catholic church but me and my husband with serious issues and lots of mental abuse and everything, I gave that all up. I even became baptist in hopes of one less differences to divide us. Divorce hurt me, and my children-my 17-yr-old is still affected by that. I have came back and now receive the sacraments. My 8-yr-old daughter just received her first holy communion 3 wks ago, and as for my 17-yr-old-I am seeking lots of prayers-there are lots of pain and anger and everything-and some of my choices, although my intentions was good could have been done differently. My middle son-age 15 with high-functioning autism lives with his dad. Both my ex and my own father blames me for my son’s autism-which really hurts a lot. And I also learned through the VA (I"m an air force veteran and reservist) that I also have mild aspergers, along with my 8-yr-old daughter. My oldest also has social anxiety issues-a lot of it compounded by the chaos of the marriage and divorce. We are in counseling, attending church (my younger daughter and I) and I am guessing why Jesus may have went from shunning or punishing to love and forgiveness is because He knew that as much as God hates divorce, He still loves the person. I hate divorce, too-and is feeling remorseful of a lot of pain it caused me and my children, and how the cycle affected all of us. My oldest said that since the divorce, I’ve changed-I am not the same mom I used to be-and I try so hard to bounce back to the mom I was before yet it is so hard. Trying to make ends meet, the budget, and everything else-no support from family, only church and “air force family” and friends and neighbors, so I lean on God and feel at least at peace with Jesus’ love for me and my kids. I had never been unfaithful to my husband or anything-it is just the issues he kept running me down over-a lot of it (I’m not using this as an excuse) is little things I couldn’t help myself over such as him coming up behind me and I’d stiffen being caught off-guard-stuff like that pertaining to aspergers. I will never get in another relationship ever again-just know that it would be better to stay single and try to find healing for my kids. Especially my two teen agers-all that anger with my oldest-oh boy! I am just thankful for God’s love and not having the sharia laws in place-I’d been in a grave otherwise, I guess. :bighanky::grouphug:

God bless you for responding to the grace to lean on God and do the right thing!

You are in no way responsible for autism in your child. The Lord is with both of you.

There was no divorce in my marriage, but some of my children have emotional and spiritual problems that need healing. I keep praying for them and they know I love them. It may take time, but the Lord answers prayer.

 

[midori]

Still, there’s a lot of picking and choosing.

Most of that happened at the Council of Jerusalem in AD 50. Who argued there? Paul and James were the leaders of the two main factions. Who decided what happened? Peter.

That’s a lot of time to have passed-- and those are some pretty big names involved-- to just sort of dismiss it offhand like that. If it’s spiritually important to you to avoid clam chowder, sausage with your breakfast, or a lobster dinner, that’s great, but it’s also important to understand that’s not a discipline imposed on Christianity in general for reasons already addressed.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

True. But Jesus has said that the “laws” will now be written on our hearts…which he has.

By which he meant what, in your view? Jewish law?

Law or no “Jewish” law…would homo-sexuality, abortion, adultery…be right with you?

Abortion in the case of rape, I suppose. At least it’s a very tricky scenario, you have to admit.

I cannot place homosexuality in the category along with murder (abortion) or adultery. It seems, frankly, a tremendous stretch to do so. Jesus pointed out to us that the two most important lessons are to 1) Love God with all our hearts, 2) Love our neighbors as we love ourselves. In the case of abortion or adultery, you can clearly see these lessons being defied.

By contrast, issues of homosexuality are dealt with by Jewish ceremonial law, which was again, ceremonial not to mention abolished, and later Church teachings.

I would bet not…an example of the laws now written on our hearts!

Well, not eating shellfish is not written on my heart.

 

[kildare]

As to why there are it seems two laws in the Bible, I do think that the two laws are both valid at the same time. If you live by the Law of Moses then you will be judged by it. This is a step up from what went before, but Christ takes a step higher.

I see the old law as being divine justice : a eye for an eye. Its basically what a person really deserves. Christ thoughchanges everything. In order to escape the harshness of the natural world, you have to submit completely to love. This is actually very hard to do, but at least if you try to live by blessing your enemies, treating the poor as if they were Jesus etc, then you will be judged according to your own words.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

As to why there are it seems two laws in the Bible, I do think that the two laws are both valid at the same time. If you live by the Law of Moses then you will be judged by it. This is a step up from what went before, but Christ takes a step higher.

I see the old law as being divine justice : a eye for an eye. Its basically what a person really deserves. Christ thoughchanges everything. In order to escape the harshness of the natural world, you have to submit completely to love. This is actually very hard to do, but at least if you try to live by blessing your enemies, treating the poor as if they were Jesus etc, then you will be judged according to your own words.

Yes, pretty much. The Church Fathers had different views. Some wanted to keep the old laws, others wanted to abandon them so they could convert gentiles without requiring them to give up their lobster habit… heh.

 

[razredge]

I cannot place homosexuality in the category along with murder (abortion) or adultery. It seems, frankly, a tremendous stretch to do so. Jesus pointed out to us that the two most important lessons are to 1) Love God with all our hearts, 2) Love our neighbors as we love ourselves. In the case of abortion or adultery, you can clearly see these lessons being defied.

I definitely don’t get my morality from reading the Old Testament - far too problematic that.

But homosexuality is against the natural law, not the moral law.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

…
By contrast, issues of homosexuality are dealt with by Jewish ceremonial law, which was again, ceremonial not to mention abolished, and later Church teachings.

Well, not eating shellfish is not written on my heart.

Yes, pretty much. The Church Fathers had different views. Some wanted to keep the old laws, others wanted to abandon them so they could convert gentiles without requiring them to give up their lobster habit… heh.

Pro-homosexual polemicists advance the hermeneutic error that prohibition against homosexuality in the Old Testament fell under Judaic ceremonial law, like ancient clothing rules, procedures in planting a field and dietary restrictions. This is theological revisionism.

The laws in Leviticus 18 to 20, where homosexuality is specifically prohibited, contain a mixture of timeless and temporal principles. Some of the sins listed in the Levitical holiness code were labeled “abominations” and the prescription for violations of the same was death. Most of the sins listed in this category are still considered egregious today, ranging from incest to adultery and homosexuality. Guidelines in the same Levitical texts for how to dress and how to sow one’s field and other lesser matters, however, were not called “abominations.” Nor was the punishment for violating their guidelines as severe.

There were differences between the realm of the clean/unclean, and the realm of the holy/profane. Ceremonial uncleanness was particularly associated with Israel in Old Testament times, while moral holiness is forever enjoined upon all peoples.

Christians may no longer be under the ceremonial and civil laws of ancient Israel, but the moral laws remain. Moral imperfections and impurities – that is, the sinful activities that rendered a person unclean in the Old Testament – are still sinful in the new covenant and still require repentance and confession and forgiveness in order to comply with God’s standard of holiness.

---

To go back to the OP, Catholicism has its equivalent to Islamic or sharia law: canon law. It is not probable that the U.S. would veer away from the separation of Church and state and move towards theocracy as in Iran or Saudi Arabia and other Islamic states.

Canon law is the body of laws and regulations made or adopted by ecclesiastical authority, for the government of the Christian organization and its members. It is the internal ecclesiastical law governing the Catholic Church (both Latin Rite and Eastern Catholic Churches), the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches, and the Anglican Communion of churches.

True, we have Catholics who pick and choose which doctrines or disciplines to believe and practice. However, faithful Catholics adhere to only one set of dogmatic and doctrinal teachings as laid by the Magisterium, complying with disciplines as set forth by dioceses by country. There are dissenting organizations and the Church is slow to disown unless dissent is taken so far as to cause scandal. New Ways Ministry and Dignity come to mind.

Having said this, it is also true that other religions have their share in divergence in beliefs of its members. Under the Jewish, Protestant, and Muslim tents are different sects.
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