"Catholic social teaching finds Church teaching lacking." by Bishop Dowling

[St_Francis]

Moral Theology pun. The hats are galleros, red ones are worn by Cardinals. They are Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance

The Four Cardinal Vert Ewes.

We have 4 sheep! And now every time I see them, I’m going to think of the virtues… I love bilingual jokes

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I think some of the posters are missing out on the paradoxes of Christianity. Christ was both servant and Lord. The priests, in thus representing Christ, in order to represent Him fully, must also appear as both servant and Lord. Therefore they serve the people by offering Christ in the sacrifice of the Mass (humble servants) yet they themselves stand in persona Christi (risen Lord of glory). For the sacrifice of the Mass they, though humble men, are clothed (like the risen Lord of Glory) in ‘rich attire’ (as had been mandated by God for the earlier Jewish priests who FORESHADOWED the completeness of Christ’s high priesthood in the New Testament).

After Mass those ‘rich robes’ are put away and out comes the priest in simple tunic, or even in ‘street clothes’.

One needs to consider the FULLNESS of God. He is not simply ‘humble and poor’ --He is the King. . .and unlike a fair amount of today’s modern men and women, He knows the difference between appearance for its ‘own’ sake and appearance to reflect what is appropriate to ALL.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Tantum, here’s what I don’t get. The bishop can’t give the same spiritual nourishment dressed in cargos? Peace Tantum.

Matt,

Do you seriously think the whole mass is all about you and your spiritual nourishment? The mass is to worship God. The spiritual nourishment is the icing on the cake.

Also, you talk about donating a magna cappa as taking away from the poor. Some people want to go to mass dressed in jeans and whine about how we don’t give to the poor. Meanwhile, the people who are dressed up for mass and who donate magna cappas and gold chalices give much more to the poor than all the slobs put together.

I would love to see statistics on how much the hippies give to the poor vs. how much the finely dressed people at mass give to the poor. It would be very telling. I suspect very strongly that the sloppy people don’t give anything to the poor. They just sit around whining about how richly some people are dressed.

And Jesus was dressed in very fine clothing for the last supper. That’s why they cast lots for his clothes instead of dividing it up. A single-cloth tunic was very expensive in those times.

 

[lynnvinc]

Social Justice well and good. But Social Justice very often gets lost in what individuals think is the way to "love"of their neighbors. As was said, the Social Justice folk have forgotten there are hierarchies of good and evil. Our last POTUS election was a good example of that. Gee, pay everyone’s electric and heating bill but deny there is life in the womb. Enough of the hippie agenda. Get back to basics.

I think reducing sin in one’s life comes first (like they say on the plane – put the air mask over your mouth first, then assist others). That’s why I’m mainly focused on reducing my killing and harming of people and God’s creation by reducing my greenhouse gases and other environmental pollutants. And many other personal sins I’m working on. Only secondarily (but not to be shirked) are social justice efforts like helping others to reduce abortions, reduce their environmental harms, and do something about the social orders of iniquity – that go against a true sharing of God’s creation with all peoples.

I was actually going to give up any environmental awareness efforts about 3 years ago, since it’s like banging my head against a solid brick wall for 20 years, and anti-environmental Catholics have become ever more vicious – it would be an act of futility. But at mass that week there was and Old Testament reading stating that if you know your neighboor is guilty of sinning, but you fail to warn him, that sin falls back on you. So back to the trenches of futility again.

It’s always much more fun and interesting to focus on OTHER PEOPLE’S SINS. But it is sad the Catholic Right seem at times mainly to point to those rotten abortionists, without much consideration of their own sins, and the Catholic Left seem mainly to point to those heartless rich folks who finagle the system to benefit them and leave the poor to suffer and die, without much consideration of their own sins.

There are “sins of the right,” which include arrogance and self-righteousness, and “sins of the left,” which include various debaucheries. They say it is more difficult for people to overcome their sins of the right, than their sins of the left (which are also very difficult to overcome).

It would be wonderful if we first look at our own sins, and do what we can to end them (which is going to take up a lot of time and effort), then join hands in efforts to end other people’s sins. For instance, those truly concerned about abortion, would want to join environmentalists in to reduce miscarriages thru local pollution and deaths caused by a plethora of environmental problems, and may want to join the Catholic Left to address structural evil and issues, like truly helping poor women feeling forced into abortions by circumstances, such as by supporting universal health care (not the very limited one that finally passed, but more like the developed countries have), higher minimum wages (2/3 of minimum wagers are women), paid pregnancy and child birth leave, free or nominal child care by trained professionals – not the baby sitter from hell. (I for one would be willing to pay higher taxes for all these, even tho I’m well past my child-bearing years, and wouldn’t personally benefit.) I don’t know how much abortions cost, but I’m sure it’s not nearly as bankrupting (in our current system) as having and rearing a child. I don’t know if women are thinking about this as they walk into abortion clinics, but if they are, then we need to truly allay such fears and excuses with a, well, more bleeding heart liberal system. Simply passing laws against abortion is not enough; lots of women were getting abortions when they were illegal. In fact, I think if there were all these helps for women with children, perhaps a lot more people would get on the bandwagon to make abortion illegal.

On the other side those truly concerned about social justice for the poor, might turn to God more often in prayer, say the Divine Office, the rosary, help their Catholic brothers & sisters fighting against abortions, and create a Christian vision for all that involves detachment from worldly goods, and the blissfulness of that way of life. And live that life as a testament, leading by example. I know people most sincerely concerned about the poor – such as the religious orders focused on helping others – are already doing these things and more.

There is room for simplicity in our rituals, and there is room for ornate vestments and decorations. As I said, I’ve found spiritual uplift in both contexts – but we should not be focused at all on this. As St. John of the Cross states (Ascent of Mt Carmel, Bk 3, Ch. 41): “Spiritual persons incur many kinds of interior and exterior harm by their desire to get sensible delight from the use of devotional objects…”; he tells us to delight in NOTHING nada but God alone.

Of course, building churches and making them beautiful and ornate does divert money that could have been used for the poor, etc. But if the church does its job correctly, then the poor will be better served by well-formed and inspired Christians in that church, and the population in heaven will be greatly increased. If not, and the poor are not served and more are going to hell (perhaps from those sins of the right and left), then that money perhaps could have better been spend directly on the poor.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

lynnvinc,
i wish I could put my thoughts together as eloquently as you. Thank you for for insights.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Duplicate thread on Social Justice.
Thread closed