Catholic Souls can become God?

[smad0142]

We accept that Jesus is God, a divine Person, who is a separate Person from the Father. **What we do not accept is the Trinitarian notion of **the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being of the same substance. We have no problems with calling Jesus God or “a God” since He is clearly a distinct Person from the Father.
QUOTE]

This is why we think Mormons are polytheists. We believe there is only one Divine Substance, and that this Divine Substance is the same among the three Persons of the Trinity.

Mormons believe there is more than one Divine Substance since both the Father and the Son are God but they do not share the same Divine Nature, i.e. they both have their own and separate divine natures.

 

[PJM]

Todd my friend,

Please respond to post # 39 wgich translates and explains #460 in the Catechism.

 

[twopekinguys]

TPG,
My beliefs have been in a state of constant attack and ridicule here

Not completely true, and I believe you know that, and is an obvious twist of what has really happened

A deeper understanding of the Catholic faith is only a GOOD THING, for all.

True, if that is what you are really after, but based on your posts, I’m not convinced that is what you are really after. Also, maybe you should have thought more about that before leaving the Church.

I have been completely open about why I wanted clarification on this Catholic doctrine, so I resent being called dishonest

So your pretext of trying to understand Catholic doctrine and starting this thread, but yet starting a thread on MADB, making the statements that I quoted earlier is being honest? i believe it is just the opposite.

Again, this subject deserved a seperate thread, so it could be properly discussed. You have the choice of engaging or not.

It may have deserved a different thread, but let’s be honest about it in the beginning. Which you obviously weren’t, as I have already pointed out. Yes, I chose to engage, and show your inappropriate behavior

 

[Caprica]

This is why we think Mormons are polytheists. We believe there is only one Divine Substance, and that this Divine Substance is the same among the three Persons of the Trinity.

Mormons believe there is more than one Divine Substance since both the Father and the Son are God but they do not share the same Divine Nature, i.e. they both have their own and separate divine natures.

Latter-day Saints typically do not speak of substances and natures. We are okay with saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are “one God” in the sense that they are united in purpose. We are okay with saying that they are “three Gods” since they are separate divine Persons. We are also okay with saying that the Father is the “one God”, as 1 Corinthians 8:6 states.

I am not sure what you mean by LDS believing that the Father and the Son have their own and separate divine natures. We believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost have the same divine nature, and that humans are of the same nature as God as well, since we are the children of God.

 

[scipio337]

This is why we think Mormons are polytheists. We believe there is only one Divine Substance, and that this Divine Substance is the same among the three Persons of the Trinity.

Mormons believe there is more than one Divine Substance since both the Father and the Son are God but they do not share the same Divine Nature, i.e. they both have their own and separate divine natures.

Actually, henotheists would be a better description.

 

[Todd520]

TPG,
My OP was very clear in my motivation for understanding this aspect of Catholic faith.

I have been repeatedly told in CAF that LDS are not Christian because we presume to become gods/God/like god after we die.
Now I read in the Catholic Catechism that Catholics also believe a soul can become God/gods.
Is the Catechism wrong or are some posters un-catechised?

Subsequently I have been nothing but cordially in discussing the Catholic belief.

And still I see no correction or comment on my summary

Thanks for the intersting debate. I’ll try to summarize it and aswer my original question

• The Catechism is correct in stating man “might become God.”
• However, it does not articulate how man’s nature as god will be different than the divine nature of God.
• The specifics of this difference are the subject of theological discussion/debate

 

[twopekinguys]

TPG,
My OP was very clear in my motivation for understanding this aspect of Catholic faith.

Not when your OP, and your posts at MADB are both taken into consideration.

Subsequently I have been nothing but cordially in discussing the Catholic belief.

Who said you have been anything less than cordial? I said you were being less than honest based on your carrying on the same discussion over at MADB, and making the comments that you did.

And still I see no correction or comment on my summary

I find it intersting that for someone who “claims” to have been Catholic, that you are so unfamiliar with the teachings of the Church. Also, I aksed this before, but i will ask again. How long were you inactive as a Catholic before you became lds?

Also, I find it interesting that you claim you want to better understand Catholic teachings, but totally disregard the information given to you.

 

[twopekinguys]

When we look at your posts on this thread, as well as the corresponding thread at MADB, it is clear you had an agenda that you were not up front about.

Whether or not you want to admit it, that is up to you.

When all of the information is reviewed, we definitely see you trying to give the impression that there is a weakness in Catholic theology that mormons can capitalize on in their missionary efforts.

Unfortunately, that just didn’t pan out for you, and you have been caught in the act.

 

[smad0142]

Latter-day Saints typically do not speak of substances and natures. We are okay with saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are “one God” in the sense that they are united in purpose. We are okay with saying that they are “three Gods” since they are separate divine Persons. We are also okay with saying that the Father is the “one God”, as 1 Corinthians 8:6 states.

I am not sure what you mean by LDS believing that the Father and the Son have their own and separate divine natures. We believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost have the same divine nature, and that humans are of the same nature as God as well, since we are the children of God.

BTW I hope you, and all LDS here, see that I am just trying to comment on the differences and ask questions. I hope I am being charitable.

To Catholics saying they are three gods is polytheism.

How can They have the same Divine Nature and not the same Divine Substance?

 

[Caprica]

BTW I hope you, and all LDS here, see that I am just trying to comment on the differences and ask questions. I hope I am being charitable.

Don’t worry about it, I didn’t think you were being uncharitable.

To Catholics saying they are three gods is polytheism.

Yes, I’m aware. I think that Latter-day Saints are typically not concerned with such definitions, since accepting a multiplicity of distinct divine Persons (which is what the Trinitarian definition includes, the belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost/Spirit are three distinct Persons) naturally involves some “poly” or “plurality”.

How can They have the same Divine Nature and not the same Divine Substance?

If by “substance” you are referring to “nature”, then LDS would believe that we are all of the same substance as God. If it isn’t, then perhaps you can clarify.

 

[Todd520]

When we look at your posts on this thread, as well as the corresponding thread at MADB, it is clear you had an agenda that you were not up front about.

Whether or not you want to admit it, that is up to you.

When all of the information is reviewed, we definitely see you trying to give the impression that there is a weakness in Catholic theology that mormons can capitalize on in their missionary efforts.

Unfortunately, that just didn’t pan out for you, and you have been caught in the act.

Again, my OP made my motivation crystal clear. And my post on MOAB is consistent

THERE IS NO WEAKNESS IN CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, and you should be ashamed for thinking so, and trying to defend said weakness.
I have said there is a weakness in the depth of knowledge on this subject, by some Catholics.

Certainly any Catholic who understands the OP doctrine and the unsettled theological debate on man’s divine nature,
would choose a different topic to clearly contrast the two faiths.

 

[twopekinguys]

Again, my OP made my motivation crystal clear. And my post on MOAB is consistent

THERE IS NO WEAKNESS IN CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, and you should be ashamed for thinking so, and trying to defend said weakness.
I have said there is a weakness in the depth of knowledge on this subject, by some Catholics.

Certainly any Catholic who understands the OP doctrine and the unsettled theological debate on man’s divine nature,
would choose a different topic to clearly contrast the two faiths.

1. I never said there is a weakness in Catholic theology, so I suggest you rethink that statement. You might even want to reread the post.
2. If you truly believe there aren’t any weaknesses in Catholic theology, you would still be Catholic. Assuming of course you were Catholic at one time.

If you think both threads you have started show a consistency, then fine. Unfortunately, there are many of us who disagree.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I believe it is enough that Todd admits he knew nothing about the Catholic Church when he allegedly left it

 

[PJM]

=SirThomasMore;6968976]I believe it is enough that Todd admits he knew nothing about the Catholic Church when he allegedly left it

Todd has NEVER responed to post #39 which explains the issue he raises. Perhaps it was TOO CLEAR?

 

[twopekinguys]

THERE IS NO WEAKNESS IN CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, and you should be ashamed for thinking so, and trying to defend said weakness.

I have to admit I had to read this again. It doesn’t make any sense. You say there is no weakness in Catholic thoeology, and I should be ashamed of defending said weakness?

:hypno::whacky::hypno:

 

[PaulDupre]

So what does partaking of the divine nature “do” to a person?

"However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”

• 1 Cor 2:9

 

[Todd520]

TPG, Maybe i over reacated to your statement. I wanted to make the point that theology must stand on it’s own legs. it just deserves a clear opportunity and explantion to do so.

When all of the information is reviewed, we definitely see you trying to give the impression that there is a weakness in Catholic theology that mormons can capitalize on in their missionary efforts.

 

[Todd520]

Posting this again, to see if there are issues with my summary
Lots of responses, just not to this

Thanks for the intersting debate. I’ll try to summarize it and aswer my original question

• The Catechism is correct in stating man “might become God.”
• However, it does not articulate how man’s nature as god will be different than the divine nature of God.
• The specifics of this difference are the subject of theological discussion/debate

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thanks for the intersting debate. I’ll try to summarize it and aswer my original question

• The Catechism is correct in stating man “might become God.”

Yes. Why would the CCC not be correct in stating Catholic belief?

• However, it does not articulate how man’s nature as god will be different than the divine nature of God.

The difference is man is not God.

• The specifics of this difference are the subject of theological discussion/debate

I’ve never read any anywhere.

You seem to be taking the view that if the CCC is not explicit on what we don’t believe, then it is possible that we believe it, or could believe it.

The CCC states what we believe, not what we don’t believe.

 

[smad0142]

Todd your summary is slightly wrong. We will not become God, we will share in His Nature. We will always have our human nature, it will just be totally immersed and taken into the Heart of God, i.e. we will share in His Nature.

The main difference, as I see it:
Catholics maintain that the human nature is fundamentally different from the Divine Nature. We will share in the Divine Nature through Grace, but we will not exercise that Divine Nature, i.e. we can not do what God does.

Mormons maintain that God and man has fundamentally the same nature. That it is a natural thing for us to become God, because our natures are not different. When we ultimatly do reach the fulness of eternal progression we will exercise the Divine Nature, e.g. we will be able to have spirit children.

Hope this answers your summary.