Catholic taking Lutheran Educ. Class w/wife

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This morning I went to a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) education class with my wife. She grew up Lutheran and is wanting a refresher. I am Catholic and would classify myself as strong in my faith, but still have much to learn. Two main reasons why I plan on attending this class with my wife. 1) Since we are now “one” in marrigage, I want to learn some of the faith of my other “part.” 2) I feel it will strengthen my own Catholic faith. When a Lutheran teaching is discussed, I will investigate the Catholic teaching on the same issue. I would like to do a lot of the investigation on this forum. Does this seem reasonable, and would you all be willing to help me with questions I might have?

Today was the very first class. The Bible Alone was mentioned just in passing and so was OSAS. No questions were raised in my mind this morning regarding those issues. The pastor asked if anyone could explain what a Saint is. I definitely could have, but for whatever reason, I didn’t raise my hand. He went on to explain that a Saint is someone who lives a holy life, dies and then canonized by the Catholic Church. I raised my hand and added that the Catholic Church also teaches that anyone that makes it to Heaven is a Saint and that we should all strive to live saintly lives while on this Earth. He said okay. He went on to say that we should view ourselves as Saints already. In a round about way, he based this on OSAS.

The pastor quoted Leviticus 19:1-2 saying that when God said, “Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them: Be holy, for I, the LORD your God, am holy”, that God wasn’t commandingus to be holy, but He was making us holy. Hopefully, I’ve articulated his point. Is the Catholic teaching the same as the pastors’?

Do you think this is a good idea for me to join my wife in this class? Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

-Greg****
 
Oh yeah, another thing I thought of during the class. The pastor mentioned the burning bush, ten commandments and moses. He asked if we knew why God told Moses to take his shoes off. He said because God said the ground was holy. Holy because God was there and nothing God dwelled on or in could be unpure or unholy. This made me wonder if Lutherans believe in the Immaculate Conception. Does anyone know?
 
Lampo said:
Oh yeah, another thing I thought of during the class. The pastor mentioned the burning bush, ten commandments and moses. He asked if we knew why God told Moses to take his shoes off. He said because God said the ground was holy. Holy because God was there and nothing God dwelled on or in could be unpure or unholy. This made me wonder if Lutherans believe in the Immaculate Conception. Does anyone know?
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Interesting point. 👍

In regards to attendance, I have to admit that I have my own reservations on this matter.

There will be times when you will feel like screaming out against a teaching, and other times when you find common ground with Catholic teaching.

I’m not sure if you’ve already done this or not, but have you considered the RCIA as a kind of spiritual renewal. It seems to me a better way to do this would be for you to attend a Catholic course of some sort, or speak with your preist, and then compare your notes with your wive’s notes from her Lutheran perspective and then ask questions “by proxy” through each other to the instructors of each program.

In all honesty, unless one is seriously grounded in their faith, I’m not sure if I would encourage someone to go to a non-Catholic course to investigate it further. They could end up more confused by the conflicting teachings that may come up. 🙂
 
Lampo said:
This morning I went to a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) education class with my wife. She grew up Lutheran and is wanting a refresher. I am Catholic and would classify myself as strong in my faith, but still have much to learn. Two main reasons why I plan on attending this class with my wife. 1) Since we are now “one” in marrigage, I want to learn some of the faith of my other “part.” 2) I feel it will strengthen my own Catholic faith. When a Lutheran teaching is discussed, I will investigate the Catholic teaching on the same issue. I would like to do a lot of the investigation on this forum. Does this seem reasonable, and would you all be willing to help me with questions I might have?

Today was the very first class. The Bible Alone was mentioned just in passing and so was OSAS. No questions were raised in my mind this morning regarding those issues. The pastor asked if anyone could explain what a Saint is. I definitely could have, but for whatever reason, I didn’t raise my hand. He went on to explain that a Saint is someone who lives a holy life, dies and then canonized by the Catholic Church. I raised my hand and added that the Catholic Church also teaches that anyone that makes it to Heaven is a Saint and that we should all strive to live saintly lives while on this Earth. He said okay. He went on to say that we should view ourselves as Saints already. In a round about way, he based this on OSAS.

The pastor quoted Leviticus 19:1-2 saying that when God said, “Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them: Be holy, for I, the LORD your God, am holy”, that God wasn’t commandingus to be holy, but He was making us holy. Hopefully, I’ve articulated his point. Is the Catholic teaching the same as the pastors’?

Do you think this is a good idea for me to join my wife in this class? Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

-Greg****

I didn’t think Lutherans believed in OSAS. I know they believe Sola Fide, but that’s different than OSAS.
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Be careful, you will be Lutheran before you know it!!! Really l think you will see some differences but you might be surprised by how alike we are. I don’t think we believe in osas because if you do not partake in the sacraments and live as God would want you to your soul would be in jeopordy.
 
Take very good notes and it you have questions, come here and ask them.

Be wary…

also ask the wife to recriprocate the request as well by attending RCIA next year together as a refresher.
 
Does anyone have any comments on the Leviticus Chapter and verse I mentioned? The pastor said God was making us holy compared to commanding us to be holy. Is this the same understanding in the Catholic Church?

Also, thanks so far for your advice. I would ask my wife to join in RCIA too, but she didn’t ask me to join her in this class. I volunteered for the previous mentioned reasons. I really have no desire to become Lutheran. I love my Catholic Faith!

I’ll tell you what, from the message/tone of the pastor this morning, I sure walked away with the impression they believe in OSAS. He was blatant about it, but it was definitely there. I may quit going and just concentrate on my faith, I don’t know. I’m taking the Catholic Home Study Course. Anyway, thanks again for the comments. I may go to the class again and pose another question or two on here.
 
I have been approached with a similar situation except my spouse is Wisconsin synod. I think the onlly way that I would agree to this is to take RCIA together as well. That way both partners are exposed to the teachings of both churches. I have not yet done this due to major time constraints.

Good luck!
 
Lampo said:
Oh yeah, another thing I thought of during the class. The pastor mentioned the burning bush, ten commandments and moses. He asked if we knew why God told Moses to take his shoes off. He said because God said the ground was holy. Holy because God was there and nothing God dwelled on or in could be unpure or unholy. This made me wonder if Lutherans believe in the Immaculate Conception. Does anyone know?
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Lutherans don’t but Luther did.

davidmacd.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.htm
 
Just on a side note…When the pastor was referring to saints, he referenced Pope John Paul II a few times, but each time he could barely recall his name. I just found it interesting.
 
Lampo said:
Does anyone have any comments on the Leviticus Chapter and verse I mentioned? The pastor said God was making us holy compared to commanding us to be holy. Is this the same understanding in the Catholic Church?
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Not to put too fine a point on it, God does command holiness in Leviticus 11:44 & 45:

For I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves therefore, andbe holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls upon the earth. For I am the LORD who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God; you shall thereforebe holy, for I am holy."

In Numbers God tells them to observe the commandments in order to be holy.

Keep us in the loop. This sounds interesting. I would not be surprised if LCMS believed in OSAS because my very learned friend who is LCMS says they do not believe in free will. But I would look to a more reliable source than either him or moi

LCMS has an official web site (sorry: don’t know the URL).
 
rr1213 said:
The Immaculate Conception…no.
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Luther? Most certainly yes.
It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” 1527).
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She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {“Little”} Prayer Book, 1522).
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Little details like this were yet another factor which pointed me in the direction of Catholicism.

If, however, if you ask many other modern day Lutheran pastors, you may quite possibly get a very different answer. 😦

Lampo, you might want to ask the Lutheran pastor about this quote about Mary from Luther and see what he says. When I was with the Lutheran church my pastor was very honest with me and actually pointed out this quote to me when I asked. There actually are a small minority among Lutherans that still do hold to this traditional view about Mary-- but it’s extremely rare nowadays.

However, the Lutheran church I belonged too was very, very traditional and even held confession as a quasi-sacramental status.

Looking back, I’m unsure if it was held as a sacrament per se. But the practice was certainly held in such a high honor that it seemed to border on a quasi-sacramental nature.

Seemed this way to me anyway.
 
I have never been in a Lutheran church that did not believe in the immaculate conception. Mary is considered Mother of our Lord.
 
seeker_b said:
I have never been in a Lutheran church that did not believe in the immaculate conception. Mary is considered Mother of our Lord.
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It sounds like you are confusing the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin with the Virgin Conception of Our Lord. Mary was conceived in the usual human way, but at the moment of her conception protected from the inheritance of Original Sin. But let’s not drag this thread down that alley.
 
Lampo said:
I’ll tell you what, from the message/tone of the pastor this morning, I sure walked away with the impression they believe in OSAS. He was blatant about it, but it was definitely there. I may quit going and just concentrate on my faith, I don’t know. I’m taking the Catholic Home Study Course. Anyway, thanks again for the comments. I may go to the class again and pose another question or two on here.
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Lutherans believe the Arminian version of weather you can lose your salvation. You can, but it is significantly different than the Catholic view point. You lose your salvation only by totally deciding you want nothing to do with God anymore. It can’t be lost accidentally or because you sin a few times. You have to decide you don’t want/need salvation. The more you have sinned the easier it is to make such a decesion against God. This leads to teachings that you can know for sure you are saved but is still not OSAS.
 
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