Catholic teaching not found in the Bible

[paarsurrey]

Nope: Trinity is not in the Bible.

Hi

You are right, Trinity is not in the Bible, it can’t be; Jesus and Mary never believed it. It is a later innovation and a misconception.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

How do you determine that a revelation is divine?

Hi

How did Moses know that the Word he received from GodAllahYHWH was from Him? God talks and the man declares with certainty that God has talked with him.

Thanks

 

[estesbob]

Hi

You are right, Trinity is not in the Bible, it can’t be; Jesus and Mary never believed it. It is a later innovation and a misconception.

Thanks

I notice there are two characteristics to your posts:

you make profound statements without anything to back them up.

You never respond to requests asking you to do so.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

How did Moses know that the Word he received from GodAllahYHWH was from Him? God talks and the man declares with certainty that God has talked with him.

Thanks

Hi dear brother Paar,

Same questions to you. (a) How did Muhammad know that he talked to the angel of Gabriel, and (b) How do YOU know that your ProphetMessenger in indeed a prophet? Specially from your ProphetMessenger. He is not even foretold both in Quran and Bible, so there can’t be any ProphetMessenger as per your version. It is just a misconception.

 

[paarsurrey]

These things were passed on by oral transmission

Hi

There was not trustworthy or authentic system of oral transmission; only anonymous heresays.

Jesus was alive and in exile in India. Nobody bothered to even contact him there. Perhaps they were happy, in my opinion, that he has not remained on the scene and they were free to do whatever they liked.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Em, you are reading into those words something which the words, taken in themselves, cannot support. The Mormons, reading those same words, see the Holy Spirit only as a “messenger” spirit not of the same substance as the Father. It cannot be demonstrated from Scripture alone that the Holy Spirit is a divine Person.

Hi

The angels or holy spirit are not persons in the sense that they cannot do anything which has not be commanded by GodAllahYHWH. It has been personified for the convenient understanding of the human beings;The Mormons are right if they interpret the holy spirit only as a reliable"messenger" spirit not of the same attributes as the Creator or Father.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Imo you are scraping the bottom of the barrel when you use the argument of what the “Mormons” believe to disprove the Truth of the trinity in John 14:26.

.

Hi

The truth should be taken whereever it is found; we should not be biased, the mormons are also human beings, they could be right in some concepts.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by jmcrae
Where in that passage does it state that the Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are each distinct Persons who are members of one God?

Does God have to state the obvious?
.

Hi

If GodAllahYHWH does not mention a thing; are we more wise that we should put it into his mouth? or in the mouths of the people in general without any express authority from Him. We cannot and should not do that.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

God states the obvious through the Catholic Church. Those who don’t believe the Catholic Church end up believing like the Mormons, etc. It is only a short step from denying the authority of the Councils of the Church, to denying their actual findings, too.

Hi

Rather than denying GodAllahYHWH, it is better to deny the associations or councils.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Em, this is the whole point. A Trinitarian sees the “obvious” in Scripture because we “know” the Holy Spirit is a divine Person: co-equal, consubstantial, and co-eternal with the Father and the Son. But from Scripture ALONE, apart from the faith of the Church, as defined in the great fourth Century Councils, it is not obvious that the Holy Spirit is a divine Person. Those very terms derive from the conciliar definitions.

Hi

I agree with you. It is GodAllahYHWH who can bind us humans; nto the other way round, single or collective concils cannot bind GodAllahYHWH. That should be undestood.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by emeraldisle
Does God have to state the obvious?

Point taken.

Protestants tend to see Catholics as mindlessly accepting things “because your Church tells you they are true.” Catholics tend to see Protestants as refusing to see things simply “because the Catholic Church believes them to be true” rather than because they are not true.

Hi

I think , it is no difficult to understand that GodAllahYHWH being the Creator can bind the church; not that the church or its resolutions can bind GodAllahYHWH.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

I notice there are two characteristics to your posts:

you make profound statements without anything to back them up.

You never respond to requests asking you to do so.

Hi

Kindly mention the post I did not reply.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi dear brother Paar,

Same questions to you. (a) How did Muhammad know that he talked to the angel of Gabriel, and (b) How do YOU know that your ProphetMessenger in indeed a prophet? Specially from your ProphetMessenger. He is not even foretold both in Quran and Bible, so there can’t be any ProphetMessenger as per your version. It is just a misconception.

Hi

Muhammad was a MessengerProphet of GodAllahYHWH like unto Moses as mentioned in Quran. How did Moses know that GodAllahYHWH talked to him; similarly when GodAllahYHWH talked to Muhammad , he knew who was talking to him.

My MessengerProphet is Muhammad; the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 is just a reformer, servant, sucessor and caliph of Muhammad.; just like Jesus who was a subordinate of Moses.

This is very much mentioned in Quran.

The trufulness of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 could be knows from the fact that nobod else has come, though all are waiting for him.

I think that helps

Thanks

 

[Benadam]

Hi

How did Moses know that the Word he received from GodAllahYHWH was from Him? God talks and the man declares with certainty that God has talked with him.

Thanks

well, anyone can do that.

As for Moses he is a member of the People of God who’s particular life fit a typology that like other members of the said People makes visible the Word of God. Not to mention the teaching of Moses that revealed the Law that is proving to be written on the human heart.

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

when GodAllahYHWH talked to Muhammad , he knew who was talking to him.

Thanks for trying, but that doesn’t help at all, actually. You offer nothing to support your assertion. To turn the tables, I can just claim that ’ when Jesus talked to St. Paul, he knew who was talking to him.’ Your same words, tweaked ever so slightly. You have yet to offer proof, you’ve only restated your claims over and over.

Also, I ask again: If Jesus never believed in the Trinity, then why did He say “The Father and I are one”?

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[swariffin]

Hi

Muhammad was a MessengerProphet of GodAllahYHWH like unto Moses as mentioned in Quran. How did Moses know that GodAllahYHWH talked to him; similarly when GodAllahYHWH talked to Muhammad , he knew who was talking to him.

My MessengerProphet is Muhammad; the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 is just a reformer, servant, sucessor and caliph of Muhammad.; just like Jesus who was a subordinate of Moses.

This is very much mentioned in Quran.

The trufulness of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 could be knows from the fact that nobod else has come, though all are waiting for him.

I think that helps

Thanks

Dear Paar,

Someone else mentioned that at first Muhammad did not know who was saying. It was his wife who told him.

Second, where is in the Quran that there is a reformer of Muhammad. Reformer? what an interesting word. It says that you claim that your PromisedMessiah has altered Muhammad’s teaching. Very interesting. Perhaps you should elaborate further in other thread. BTW, I don’t disagree with you. Muhammad’s teaching does need to be reformed. I am glad that your PromisedMessiah and the followers (including you) have the gut to do so. I do respect that. I can see more peaceful Islam under Ahmadiah.

Third, your claim that no one come but anyone else in waiting, does not automatically justify your PromisedMessiah to be the “Parousia” we are waiting. Hitler did come before Jesus return again in glory, but he is definitely not the one we are waiting for. John Paul II (Karol Woytilla) did come before Jesus, but still he is not Jesus whom we are waiting for.

Fourth, to all of the member, I am sorry for being off-topic. I can’t wait to response to my dear brother, Paarsurrey.

 

[Camron]

Hi

Mary was alive though Jesus disappeared as per the CatholicsProtestants. Now Mary is held with great esteem by the my Catholic friends. Paul should have consulted her in every crucial matters. It is so simple to grasp.

Thanks

Luke, a companion to Paul, most likely did consult Mary for many of the details of Jesus’ life, including His death and resurrection. Consequently, it seems to me that Paul also consulted the Blessed Virgin as well.

Paarsurrey, before we go further, could you please provide a complete list of the Bible passages from the New Testament, including which Biblical passages were not tampered with and which Biblical passages were tampered with (based on the studies of respectable Muslim Biblical scholars).

I ask this because it appears to me that many Muslims quote the Bible when it agrees with their doctrine and misquote the Bible when it doesn’t agree with their doctrine. In short, it seems to me that they can speak from both sides of their mouth at leisure without having to commit to anything definitive regarding what the Bible actually claims about Jesus.

As such, before any assertions can be made, I would like a list of what is accepted and what is not accepted if possible. This way one cannot retract a statement if indeed one claims that a Biblical passage is not corrupted but then is later found to be corrupted because it does not fit in with Muslim theology.

 

[mercygate]

Hi

There was not trustworthy or authentic system of oral transmission; only anonymous heresays.

Interesting. Before the world had wide access to writing, oral transmission was much more systematic and reliable than it now is. And by no means was the transmission of the faith “anonymous.” Those who preached the Gospel took great care to bring with them letters of authentication or (as in Paul’s case) to receive affirmation from the eyewitnesses in Jerusalem that he was preaching the “same” gospel, notwithstanding the personal revelation he had received from Christ Himself and the tutelage he had received from Ananias in the church at Damascus.

Jesus was alive and in exile in India. Nobody bothered to even contact him there.

Right. Nobody contacted Jesus in India because He was NOT there. This is absolutely the most delirious fairy tale anybody has ever concocted about Jesus. No serious inquiry into the crucifixion could possibly yield a result that Jesus survived it. I do not speak as a Christian on this; you do not need to be a Christian to understand that the crucifixion was not a “survivable” event.

Perhaps they were happy, in my opinion, that he has not remained on the scene and they were free to do whatever they liked.

Thanks

They were “happy” because the Resurrection brought them into a whole new relationship with God.

 

[mercygate]

Hi

I think , it is no difficult to understand that GodAllahYHWH being the Creator can bind the church; not that the church or its resolutions can bind GodAllahYHWH.

Thanks

The Church does not “bind” God. That is a cunning mis-reading of how the “binding” function of the Church works. The Scriptures tell us that the power of “binding” and “loosing” will be placed in the Body of Christ, His Church.

 

[estesbob]

Hi

Kindly mention the post I did not reply.

Thanks

You reply-your replies never have any substance. Heres a classic paarsurrey reply:

“Jesus was alive and in exile in India. Nobody bothered to even contact him there. Perhaps they were happy, in my opinion, that he has not remained on the scene and they were free to do whatever they liked.”