Catholic teaching not found in the Bible

[someotherguy]

Here you go concerning “Purgatory” and the Bible:

Purgatory

Mt 5:48 - be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect
Heb 12:14 - strive for that holiness without which cannot see God
Jam 3:2 - we all fall short in many respects
Rev 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven
Jam 1:14-15 - when sin reaches maturity gives birth to death
2Sam 12:13-14 - David, though forgiven, still punished for his sin
Mt 5:26 - you will not be released until paid last penny
Mt 12:32 - sin against Holy Spirit unforgiven in this age or next
Mt 12:36 - account for every idle word on judgment day
2Macc 12:44-46 - atoned for dead to free them from sin
1Cor 3:15 - suffer loss, but saved as through fire
1Pet 3:18-20; 4:6 - Jesus preached to spirits in prison
2Tim 1:16-18 - Paul prays for dead friend Onesiphorus
1Cor 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people baptizing for the dead.

You do understand that none of these have anything to do with Purgatory, don’t you?

Catholic does not worship Mary.

Oh, sorry. It must have been all of the people bowing to statues of her and praying to her that confused me.

Pray to the death:

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something “good and pleasing to God,” not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.

I see. So tell me again why you feel it’s OK to violate God’s condemnation of praying to the dead?

 

[jmcrae]

You do understand that none of these have anything to do with Purgatory, don’t you?

What does the word “Purgatory” mean to you?

Do you reject that we must turn away from sin and accept the Gospel?

“Purgatory” is the process of turning away from sin and becoming conformed to the Gospel. For some people, this process extends after death, even though they are sincere believers in Jesus Christ.

The alternative to Purgatory is Hell; not Heaven.

 

[someotherguy]

What in the wee man are you blathering about?

I mean that Roman Catholics will never post that passage in it’s entirety. They always cut it in half and leave out the first half of it, in order to make those who don’t know the Bible think that Jesus is talking about Peter.

 

[Camron]

I’ve been studying the scriptures for years.

The Bible teaches that it is appointed unto man once to die, and then to face judgement, not to be able to pay off his sins in purgatory.

What happened to Lazarus and other people who were raised form the dead?

Did they die again or where they raised up to heaven or did they continue living until the second coming of the Lord or…?

The Bible teaches that praying to the dead is strictly forbidden, not that we’re to pray to the dead.

Where does the Bible say that it is forbidden to pray with the dead in Christ?

If you actually mean that we’re forbidden from talking with the dead then I will note that God apparenlty talks with dead people all the time, so He’s apparently, possibly by your logic, guilty of something which He has forbidden.

 

[Camron]

Oh, sorry. It must have been all of the people bowing to statues of her and praying to her that confused me.

Apparently God instructed the Israelites to worship the Bronze Serpent based on the criteria you are using.

 

[mercygate]

I mean that Roman Catholics will never post that passage in it’s entirety. They always cut it in half and leave out the first half of it, in order to make those who don’t know the Bible think that Jesus is talking about Peter.

Protestants on the subject of Peter in Mt. 16:18.

 

[someotherguy]

What does the word “Purgatory” mean to you? :

It means a mythical land where people must go and suffer to remove their sins.

“Purgatory” is the process of turning away from sin and becoming conformed to the Gospel.

Oh, OK. I was going by the Roman Catholic version.

 

[jmcrae]

I mean that Roman Catholics will never post that passage in it’s entirety. They always cut it in half and leave out the first half of it, in order to make those who don’t know the Bible think that Jesus is talking about Peter.

I have read the entire chapter - who else would He be talking about?

 

[jmcrae]

It means a mythical land where people must go and suffer to remove their sins.

Some people use the analogy of a “place” when explaining it to children and to those who think in concrete terms.

Oh, OK. I was going by the Roman Catholic version.

Just FYI, I’m a Catechist in a Catholic Church.

 

[someotherguy]

What happened to Lazarus and other people who were raised form the dead?

Did they die again or where they raised up to heaven or did they continue living until the second coming of the Lord or…?

“Dead” as described in Deuteronomy does not necessarily refer to physical death, but to those who have left this Earthly, physical existence and crossed over into a spiritual existence.

Where does the Bible say that it is forbidden to pray with the dead in Christ?

It does not make the distinction between “dead” and “dead in Christ”. All prayers to the dead are forbidden.

If you actually mean that we’re forbidden from talking with the dead then I will note that God apparenlty talks with dead people all the time, so He’s apparently, possibly by your logic, guilty of something which He has forbidden.

God is not subject to the laws He has given to us. God gives life and takes life and transcends life and death. For Him to communicate with those He has created, even the dead, is His perogative.

 

[someotherguy]

Just FYI, I’m a Catechist in a Catholic Church.

If all catechists are as confused as you, then it’s no wonder that Roman Catholics are always telling me that ex-Catholics just weren’t catechised correctly.

 

[someotherguy]

I have read the entire chapter - who else would He be talking about?

Go ahead and post the entire passage and I’ll show you.

 

[jmcrae]

It does not make the distinction between “dead” and “dead in Christ”. All prayers to the dead are forbidden.

Necromancy (the calling of the dead back into this world) is forbidden.

Praying to the dead, where the dead stay in Heaven and do not get called back to the earth, is obviously okay, since St. John does it throughout the entire Book of Revelation, and no one chastises him for it at any time.

 

[someotherguy]

Necromancy (the calling of the dead back into this world) is forbidden.

Praying to the dead, where the dead stay in Heaven and do not get called back to the earth, is obviously okay, since St. John does it throughout the entire Book of Revelation, and no one chastises him for it at any time.

Where does John pray to the dead?

 

[eagertolearn]

I mean that Roman Catholics will never post that passage in it’s entirety. They always cut it in half and leave out the first half of it, in order to make those who don’t know the Bible think that Jesus is talking about Peter.

I just gave you the “leads” for you to study them further. Cannot quote the whole Bible here. You were unwilling to go search for yourself, from some of your prior posts.

Say, you have people carved out the statue of your spouse so you can adore and worship her/him. That does not mean the same as you adore and worship God, does it?

As , more or less, a Christian country, should we throw away all the statues of Washington, Lincohn, Thomas Jefferson…? The statues are there to remind us the underlying important messages about our country. It does not mean worship idols.

Nice talking to you. We are all brother and sister, even our enemy

ETL

 

[jmcrae]

Go ahead and post the entire passage and I’ll show you.

EVANGELIUM SECUNDUM MATTHAEUM

16:

13 Venit autem Iesus in partes Caesareae Philippi et interrogabat discipulos suos dicens: “ Quem dicunt homines esse Filium hominis?”.

Then came Jesus to the region of Caesarea Phillipi, and he asked his disciples, “What do men say about the Son of Man?”

[more literally, “What do the humans say about the Son of Humanity?”]

14 At illi dixerunt: “ Alii Ioannem Baptistam, alii autem Eliam, alii vero Ieremiam, aut unum ex prophetis ”.

They said, “Some say John the Baptist, others of them, Elijah, others say Jeremiah, or another of the prophets.”

15 Dicit illis: “ Vos autem quem me esse dicitis? ”.

Then he asked, “Who do you say that I am?”

16 Respondens Simon Petrus dixit: “ Tu es Christus, Filius Dei vivi ”.

Simon Rock replied saying, “You are Christ, the Son of the Living God.”

17 Respondens autem Iesus dixit ei: “ Beatus es, Simon Bariona, quia caro et sanguis non revelavit tibi sed Pater meus, qui in caelis est.

Jesus replied and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon the son of Jonah, for flesh nor blood has revealed it to you, but my Father who is in Heaven.”

18 Et ego dico tibi: Tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam; et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam.

And I say to you, You are Rock, and upon this rock I build my Church, and the gates of Hell do not prevail against it.

19 Tibi dabo claves regni caelorum; et quodcumque ligaveris super terram, erit ligatum in caelis, et quodcumque solveris super terram, erit solutum in caelis ”.

I give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatever you release on earth shall be released in heaven.

20 Tunc praecepit discipulis, ut nemini dicerent quia ipse esset Christus.

Then he commanded his disciples, not to tell anyone that he is Christ.

 

[jmcrae]

Where does John pray to the dead?

Throughout the entire book, he is talking to (“praying to”) the residents of Heaven (“the dead”).

 

[someotherguy]

Throughout the entire book, he is talking to (“praying to”) the residents of Heaven (“the dead”).

Could you please give me a specific chapter and verse in which John prays to the dead?

 

[jmcrae]

Could you please give me a specific chapter and verse in which John prays to the dead?

Every time he says, “I heard the voice,” etc. - these “voices” are the residents of Heaven (“the dead”) speaking to him.

 

[someotherguy]

Every time he says, “I heard the voice,” etc. - these “voices” are the residents of Heaven (“the dead”) speaking to him.

Could you please give me a specific chapter and verse that shows that John prayed to the dead?