Catholic teaching not found in the Bible

[Lilyflower]

So we can qualify to enter the Heavenly City into which “nothing unclean” may enter.

It is official teaching that Purgatory is NOT a “place”

 

[jmcrae]

So then, Purgatory is not a place one goes after death in order to suffer to cleanse oneself of sin?

No. Purgatory isn’t a “place” any more than Heaven is a “place,” or sleep is a “place” - Purgatory is the process of being made perfect, so that you can go to Heaven (ie attain to the condition of perfection.)

 

[Benadam]

Hi

The PromisedMessiah 1825-1908 had written on this a very interesting note. I will just give here some account of it:

the saints came out of the graves and appeared alive to many, is not based on historical fact; for, if it had been so, the Judgment Day would have been enacted in this very world, and that which had been kept secret as a test of faith and sincerity would have been made manifest to all; faith would not have been faith, and, in the sight of every believer and denier, the nature of the next world would have become an evident and a patent fact

Hi,

I appreciate that you believe that, the event was seen but the state of those Saints who rose up was not experienced by those who saw it.

All time and history did not experience eternity even though eternity did enter time and human history. Also, no matter how miraculous an event, it becomes a memory and a matter of faith.

A state of becoming is inherently a state that requires faith. It is the changeless state of eternity that faith in what ‘is’ is unnecessary. The state of becoming does not have to be destroyed in order for the state of eternity to be revealed within it.

If the people and past prophets of Israel whose number is millions, had really been brought to life at the time of the Crucifixion and had come to the city alive, and if this miracle – that hundreds of prophets, and many hundred thousand of saints, were all brought to life at the same time – was really shown in proof of the truth and divinity of Jesus, the Jews had an excellent opportunity to inquire of the prophets brought back to life, and of the other saints, as well as their own deceased ancestors, whether Jesus who claimed to be God was really God or whether he had only lied. They probably did not lose this opportunity.

Your view here requires that alot of circumstances and conditions that just aren’t there be believed.

They must have inquired about Jesus, for they were very keen to inquire from the dead if they could be restored to life. When, therefore, hundreds of thousands of the dead were restored to life, and came to the city, and thousands of them repaired to each quarter thereof, how could the Jews let go an opportunity like this?

Again, the text doesn’t quantify those who rose nor does it imply that they were subject to inquiry. The passage only states they were those who were dead lying in their graves who were seen walking throughout the city. There are many reasonable explanations for what was happening metaphysically but I’m afraid the things you have said are assumptions that have no foundation within the the text. Peace.

 

[vocatio]

Well, there are two problems with this.

The first is that, before I was a Christian, I was very much infatuated with Roman Catholicism and very nearly became a Roman Catholic. I’m very familiar with what Roman Catholicism teaches and I think that my history shows that I do not have a “blind eye”.

The second is that the Roman Catholics, themselves, are unable to show where these things are taught. Are you then going to claim that Roman Catholics have a “blind eye”?

Someotherguy,
I left the Catholic Church for the same reason you rationalize it to be wrong. I went into a bible only faith for over 17 years and ultimately found my way back, in part because of bible only theology. I kept seeing the Catholic doctrine pop out of the pages and noone had an answer that was either intelligable or logical. I told you this already, but I’ve studies scripture for about 32 years now. I was frankly amazed at the things I had unintentionally overlooked.

Anyway. The Da Vinci Code brought up even more questions and ultimately I discovered ancient documents that revealed what the early Christians really believed. Something that I didn’t realize until this past year is that the original KVJ contained the deuterocanonical texts. They were even located in the same place that Catholic bible places them. The hhistorical significance of this blew my mind. I don’t take things lightly either.

Jimmy Aking said something that opened my heart again to the posibility that the Catholic Church could be the Church. “Would you leave Peter because of Judas?” Beffore you go around and continue bashing Catholicism more, realize that you’re actually bashing individual Catholics over the head, not the Church. The Church will always prevail…not even the gates of hell will prevail against it. Heard that somewhere before

Another thing is look at the Eastern Church. What? Both have apostolic succession. The arguments are almost insignificant to a non-Catholic. If you look into the Orhtodox you’ll find the Church.

Have you read Ignatius of Antioch lately? KATHOLIKOS
EUCHARIST comes straight form the New Testament too. Think about John 6…

 

[Benadam]

What other Catholic teaching isn’t found in the bible? Cuz I like the script being flipped this way----> that the Trinity is not found in the bible is proof that faith in it finds it’s source in the Catholic Church.:yup:

 

[joe370]

someotherguy said, *“Yes, I’ve heard that some Roman Catholics believe that Mary was assumed into Heaven and did not die but, in addition to the fact that there is no evidence for this, by the Bible’s definition, she is still dead.” *

If this guy really believes that the Blessed Mary is dead, then that means everyone including the apostles are dead, and no one is in heaven, with the exception of the thief that hung by Jesus’ side:

"Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)

In the New Testament the word paradise is used three times: “Today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)

“And I know that this man – whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows – was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.” (2 Corinthians 12:3-4)

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.” (Revelation 2:7)

In 2 Corinthians 12:3-4 Paul seems to equate the “third heaven” with paradise. I think we can identify paradise with heaven and be pretty safe. Jesus is promising the believing thief that he will be with Jesus in heaven “today,” not in relation to some future event.

Also, Catholics do not pray to those who are spiritually dead; only Jesus, however they do ask for the prayers of those who are spiritually alive with the Trinity and the angels, the saints and all those who made it to heaven upon their demise. Anything less than full communion with God constitutes a spiritual separation from God. We know that only those in Heaven enjoy the full communion with God, therefore all others experience some type of spiritual separation (or spiritual death). Complete spiritual separation from God is Hell; this is the devils lot and those who constituted the “dead of whom we should not contact/pray to.” Catholics do not pray to those dead in spirit (completely spiritually separated from God), however we do ask for those who are physically dead in body (soul separated from body) but spiritually alive in Christ to pray for us. If we ask our friends, who are physically alive in body and spiritually connected (in some way) to Christ to pray for us, we must trust in Saint Paul’s words of spiritual unity for those who died in Christ’s Grace, ““Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans. 8.38-39 NAB.) Those who have experienced physical death (separation of soul from body) who died in Christ’s Grace enjoy full communion with God and are more spiritually alive than either ourselves or our friends.

someotherguy, read this article, and if you still believe all are dead, and therefore asking people, saints and the Mother of God to pray for us is a form of necromancy, then stop debating and move on with your life. You’re never going to change the mind of a learned catholic.

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1746194/posts

 

[paarsurrey]

Are you seriously calling Almighty God [Allah] a Liar!!

Hi

No, never; GodAllah never does it. Quran does not mention that Jesus was resurrected to heaven or sky. Quran mentions GodAllah helps His Messengers in this very world, not that He would lift somebody up in the heaven or skies for fear of the Jews.

If the accounts of the Bible would have been Word from the mouth of GodAllahYHWH then it would have been a different thing. These are not even Words from the mouth of JesusYeshuaIssa; we cannot believe the stories written by the anonymous writers edited under influence of the church at Rome.

I respect your faith.

Thanks

 

[adrift]

Hi

I respect your faith.

Thanks

How can you say you respect my faith when you write the following. Such writing is not respect.

we cannot believe the stories written by the anonymous writers edited under influence of the church at Rome.

And who is the we? Certainly not Catholics. The Bible is the Word of God so you are mistaken in your statement.

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

If the people and past prophets of Israel whose number is millions, had really been brought to life at the time of the Crucifixion and had come to the city alive

But the Gospel doesn’t say that the body of every dead person ever rose and talked to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. It just says that “the bodies of many holy people rose from the dead.” Not all. Not even most. Your idea is simply not supported by the text.

And by the way - you still haven’t provedid any proof that Jesus went to India.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[joe370]

Hi

No, never; GodAllah never does it. Quran does not mention that Jesus was resurrected to heaven or sky. Quran mentions GodAllah helps His Messengers in this very world, not that He would lift somebody up in the heaven or skies for fear of the Jews.

If the accounts of the Bible would have been Word from the mouth of GodAllahYHWH then it would have been a different thing. These are not even Words from the mouth of JesusYeshuaIssa; we cannot believe the stories written by the anonymous writers edited under influence of the church at Rome.

I respect your faith.

Thanks

Truthful God
A comparative note on Islam and Christianity.
paarsurrey,

In our world today, we have many religions. Two of the largest of these religions are Islam and Christianity. Both claim to be the final revelation of God to man. Both have a holy book said to be the word of God. Both would seek to elevate man and help him live on a high moral standard. Both seek to spread their teachings to gain more followers. Both are dedicated to the good of mankind. However, both cannot be true. Because these two religions both claim to be the final truth, yet disagree with each other so much, both cannot be true. One of these faiths, or possibly neither of these two, may be true, but both cannot be. If Islam is true, Christianity is false. If Christianity is true, Islam must be rejected. In the interest of truth, we should compare these two religions to find God’s true way. With this in mind, we would like for this tract to be a brief study introducing you to such a comparison. We challenge you to put out of your mind all that you have heard and try to approach this matter openly and honestly. This is not intended to be a complete discussion, only an introduction to help you begin your own study of this timely issue.

Islam is the religion that follows the teachings of Allah revealed through the Holy Qur’an under the directions of the prophet Muhammad. It bases its historicity on the promise of God to Abraham through Ishmael to the Arabic peoples that a great prophet would come to lead the world to righteousness. Christianity follows the teachings of God revealed through church or the Holy Bible, depending on your perspective, under the final revelation of God’s will through Jesus Christ. Its historicity is based on the promise of God to Abraham through Isaac that salvation would come through the chosen people as God would work through them and reveal the way of righteousness that would lead to salvation.

We can see that both religions are based on a similar premise, but see the fulfilment of that promise in very different ways. Actually, by comparing the two books, the Qur’an and the Bible, we can see quite a difference in the two faiths. If we could see that the Bible was full of errors, then we could see the purity of the Qur’an because it claims the Bible is corrupted. (Sara 2.80; 5.14,16.) If we could see the faults of the Qur’an, then we could understand more fully the claim of Jesus via His established church, the Bible that it is the true way of God. (John 14.6; 2 Timothy 3.16-17.) To introduce you to this comparative study, we would like for you to consider some of the following items very carefully.

The Qur’an has a definite dependence on the Bible. Without the Bible, the Qur’an would not be understandable. Whenever one studies the Qur’an, it does not take long to see just how this book would be totally incomplete without the Bible. Lacking in the Qur’an are so many details and events from stories found only in the Bible. Events from the lives of men like Noah, Moses, Abraham, Joseph, the people of Israel as well as from many other Biblical stories are completely left out of the Qur’an, yet these same stories are referred to over and over in the Qur’an. It is very common to see Muslim writers referring to Biblical passages like Genesis 16; Deuteronomy 18; Isaiah 42; Daniel 2; Malachi 3; Matthew 5, 10, 21; John 16; Luke 1; Acts 3; Hebrews 6 and Revelation 19. These references are made for many reasons, but very often simply to provide necessary information that cannot be found in the Qur’an. Our point is simply this: If the Bible is so corrupted, why do the Muslims need to refer to it for so many of their teachings? Even more importantly, if the Bible is so corrupt and is not the word of God, then why is the Qur’an so dependent on the Bible for so much information? If the Qur’an is God’s book, do you not think that it would give all this information rather than having to be so dependent on something reputedly made by man?

Very often you will hear Muslim teachers claim that the Bible was true or does contain some truth, but that the New Testament apostles like Paul, (as you said) Peter and John invented most of the Bible and developed the religion called Christianity. They will say that Jesus was a prophet, but not the Son of God (only son of His kind, that is God Himself in the flesh, John 5.18) and that the early Christians wrote the New Testament without any guidance from God. Yet, these same Muslim teachers will quote from the Bible and the words of Jesus which they try to use to teach their Islamic doctrines and then turn around and say the New Testament documents are false. On the one hand, they want us to believe the Bible is full of error. On the other hand, they want to quote from the Bible when they think it supports their teachings. How can this be? To say the Bible is full of errors and then to quote from it they must know which parts are pure and which parts are corrupted (the same thing applies to those outside of the C.C.). Yet, how can they (and protestants) know this? The Qur’an does not guide them in this. They cannot have it both ways. They must either produce for us the “pure” Bible or admit they are not consistent. To be truthful, one must be consistent.

You might find it interesting to note these passages from the Qur’an and how they differ with what the Bible says: Sura 11.42-44 and Genesis 6.10; 7.7; 10.1; Sura 12.11-21, 36-57 and Genesis 37.12-28; 40.1-41.57; Sura 26.55-60 and Exodus 1.9-14; Sura 3.41 and Luke 1.18-20,24, 57-64. Please do compare these passages and you will see the Qur’an contradicts what the Bible says. When the Qur’an tells us the Bible is from God and then contradicts the Bible, we must doubt the Qur’an. We cannot believe both the Qur’an and the Bible.

The Bible, a product of the C.C., never mentions the Qur’an, but rather says that it (the Bible) is the word of God. 2 Timothy 3.16-17; 2 Peter 1.3; John 14.6. If God had planned to reveal further knowledge through Muhammad, do you not think the C.C. or the Bible, again a product of the C.C. would have told us in a way that we could easily see? Still, the Muslim teacher will say the Bible did predict Muhammad, but then also say that the Bible is so corrupted it cannot be trusted. How can this be? Protestants do the same thing only with reference to the C.C. To our Muslim friends we would say that when you doubt the Bible and teach that it is corrupt, you are rendering your own faith vain because without the Bible the Qur’an is meaningless. Remember that both books cannot be true because both books claim to be the final word of God. Since the Qur’an would be rendered useless without the Bible, how can we say the Qur’an alone is true? If the Bible is true, there is no need for the Qur’an and we should reject it. We call upon our Muslim friends to seriously consider their position as we Christians should study very carefully and reach only for the truth.

Is there an answer? Yes, truth will never change. Our aim should be the pursuit of truth, for as Jesus said, “You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free.” (John 8.32.) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6 Please study this issue well, and let God’s truth be your guide.
"Surely, man is in a state of loss, except those who believe and do good works, and exhort one another to accept the truth." (Sura 103.3-4):thumbsup:

 

[Benadam]

well articulated joe370. Your post puts concise words to a question I ask. How can it be that a revelation considered to be divine requires another revelation considered to be divine to cleanse it? What then distinguishes divine revelation?

 

[Jimmy_B]

Catholics often hear critics arguing that ‘the Catholic Church teaches things not found in the bible’, whereas Bible-alone groups reject these doctrines.

Actually as all Catholics know, most Catholic doctrine does in fact come from the Bible or are implied there-in.

There is however one particular doctrine the Church teaches that is not mentioned in the bible, not even loosely. But I am interested to hear if there are any ‘bible-alone folk’ here who do not agree with the Catholic teaching.

The teaching is that of the Blessed Trinity: Father Son and Holy Spirit. Anyone here who do not agree with this great Catholic doctrine?

Hello Lilyflower,

I agree that the words, “Holy Trinity” are not found in the Bible but then again, the word “Bible” is not found in the Bible. The Holy Trinity is not only a Christian Truth, it something commented on in the Bible and, one who does not believe in the Holy Trinity, is not by definition a Christian.

I am a Roman Catholic, so of course I believe in the Holy Trinity.

Here are a few Bible verses which make reference to the Holy Trinity –

Matthew 28:19
Romans 14:17-18
Romans 15:16
1 Corinthians 2:2-5
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
1 Corinthians 12:1-12
2 Corinthians 1:21-23
2 Corinthians 13:13
Galatians 4:6
Ephesians 2:18-22
Ephesians 3:14-20
Ephesians 4:4-7
Colossians 1:6-8
1Thessalonians 1:3-5
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
Titus 3:4-6
1 Peter 1:1-2

Note: One who recites the Holy Trinity, prays one of Christianity’s oldest and shortest prayers.

I hope this helps…

Peace** **

 

[joe370]

well articulated joe370. Your post puts concise words to a question I ask. How can it be that a revelation considered to be divine requires another revelation considered to be divine to cleanse it? What then distinguishes divine revelation?

You will never get a sound answer from him because there isn’t one; Jesus is not a prophet per se, he is GOD. He will continue to believe what familial tradition has etched in his mind, instead of searching for truth with an unbiased approach; this unbiased approach is exactly what led me to the C.C. —and it was quite seamless once I removed my myopic glasses.

 

[Lilyflower]

Jimmy B posted:

I agree that the words, “Holy Trinity” are not found in the Bible but then again, the word “Bible” is not found in the Bible

It amazes me that some folk do not believe a single word the Catholic Church says but believe every word she wrote.

If the Catholic Church is a bit ‘iffy’ then so too must be her book the Bible.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

Then it must be even more pitiful that not one of the Roman Catholics was able to refute it.

Because, by your definition, praying to the saints is impossible.

 

[Benadam]

Because, by your definition, praying to the saints is impossible.

Oops there it is! ‘refute it’ meant ‘convince me of the impossible’

 

[Camron]

Oops there it is! ‘refute it’ meant ‘convince me of the impossible’

So how do we do that?

It seems that if the person is truly open to the Holy Spirit then this must come to pass eventually. But if they do not then they must not have been truly open to the Holy Spirit. :dts:

I know that this sounds like a circular argument. I’m pretty sure that it is a circular argument. :hypno:

But I can’t really see any other way for one to be convinced of the impossible without them being open to the Holy Spirit in the first place.