Catholic teaching on gender roles

[allisonmargaret]

As a recently confirmed Catholic (and a woman), I am frequently accused that the Church demeans women. My knee-jerk reaction was to say that God made men and women, not only men or only women. They are obviously different in many ways. Naturally, they should be suited for different duties. I was content with this explanation, but lately I have been thinking about it and it has been bothering me.

What is the precise teaching on the roles of men and women? I know that women are barred from the priesthood, but from what else are they barred? From what are men barred? Apart from physical attributes, what makes a man a man, according to the Church, and vice versa?

I have a person in my life who was born with a female body, but believes he is a male on the inside. Of course, it is between that person and God–only God knows what is in his heart. But what makes him feel he is a man, instead of a woman with stereotypically masculine interests? There is another person who believes they are neither male nor female.

There are other people in my life that insist that gender means nothing–that it is simply an illusion created by society. I can’t help but want to agree, especially if gender is something as shallow as knitting or playing basketball. But as a Catholic, I have read in the Bible that God created man and woman, so I want to believe that gender does mean something. But what does it mean?

 

[EasterJoy]

The question of what causes gender dysphoria–clinically significant discontent with the gender and sex one was assigned at birth–is a complex one. If you consider other parts of your personal identity, you realize quickly that a person might have strong feelings of being born into the wrong family or assigned the wrong role in life or having the wrong body for a lot of reasons. The only thing I would venture to say is that it hardly seems possible that there is a one-size-fits-all explanation for this trial. A most-common reason, sure. A reason that always applies…how could that be?

As for your other question, you will learn quickly that the Church herself rarely expresses even dogma in a 25-words-or-less format. Strictly speaking, the Church does not differentiate between what male and female laypeople may do but does deem the priesthood to be restricted to males as a reflection of God’s choice to become incarnate as a male and to choose only males in the role of Apostle, even though Our Lord clearly showed a willingness to ignore other societal expectations with regards to gender. The Church does teach that it is meaningful that we were created male and female, that our complementarity is itself a reflection of the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity and one of the creative means by which God made humankind to express the Divine Image. There isn’t a “1st class” gender and a “2nd class” gender, not any more than we’d say the Father is “God First Class,” Our Lord is “God Second Class,” and the Holy Spirit is “God Third Class.” That is foreign to the mindset of the Trinity, as Our Lord described it.

 

[Xantippe]

I have a person in my life who was born with a female body, but believes he is a male on the inside. Of course, it is between that person and God–only God knows what is in his heart.

**I’ve never really understood what it means like to feel “like a woman” or “like a man” as I have no basis for comparison.

I feel like me.

It is true that various hormonal stuff does make for a gendered experience (feeling irritable or weepy at certain times), but aside from that, I don’t know that I feel “like a woman” most of the time.
**

But what makes him feel he is a man, instead of a woman with stereotypically masculine interests? There is another person who believes they are neither male nor female.

**Well, one thing to bear in mind is that autistic girls and women will often have more stereotypically “masculine” minds (as per Simon Baron-Cohen’s views). My older daughter is mildly autistic and she’s all girl, but we were recently watching a documentary on the brain where they talk about gender differences, and none of the material fit her: she’s good at spatial puzzles, bad at recognizing faces.
**

There are other people in my life that insist that gender means nothing–that it is simply an illusion created by society. I can’t help but want to agree, especially if gender is something as shallow as knitting or playing basketball. But as a Catholic, I have read in the Bible that God created man and woman, so I want to believe that gender does mean something. But what does it mean?

Gender means something (I’ll leave others to say what), but it definitely has very little to do with knitting.

 

[Sarcelle]

Gender means something (I’ll leave others to say what), but it definitely has very little to do with knitting.

I guess when people talk about gender they more or less use stereotypes, such as linking femininity with liking pink, knitting, afraid of animals, obsessed with fashion and makeup. Likewise the distorted stereotypes for masculinity. These stereotypes just distort what it means to be male or female. I compare it to funhouse mirrors, which it is a reflection but a distorted reflection.

 

[1ke]

What is the precise teaching on the roles of men and women?

I suppose that depends on what you mean by “roles”.

I know that women are barred from the priesthood,

This is not correct. Women are not “barred” from the priesthood. It is not possible for women to be priests. Saying women are “barred” from the priesthood is akin to saying men are “barred” from child bearing or fish are “barred” from land.

but from what else are they barred? From what are men barred?

Men and women aren’t “barred” from anything.

Apart from physical attributes, what makes a man a man, according to the Church, and vice versa?

Your sex determines whether your are male or female.

I have a person in my life who was born with a female body, but believes he is a male on the inside.

This person is terrible confused and needs your prayers. This person is a woman.

But what makes him feel he is a man, instead of a woman with stereotypically masculine interests? There is another person who believes they are neither male nor female.

“Interests” and “believing you are a man” are not the same thing. I like football and a number of other “typical” male pursuits but I am not confused and don’t believe I am man.

There are a number of psychological issues that could impact such a belief, as well as chemical and hormonal imbalances. It is a complex issue and like other issues such as same sex attraction, these are very real and the person experiencing them is under serious duress in many cases.

There are other people in my life that insist that gender means nothing–that it is simply an illusion created by society.

Gender belongs in the realm of grammar. Words have a gender, people have a sex.

But as a Catholic, I have read in the Bible that God created man and woman, so I want to believe that gender does mean something. But what does it mean?

Sex most definitely means something.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is not correct. Women are not “barred” from the priesthood. It is not possible for women to be priests. Saying women are “barred” from the priesthood is akin to saying men are “barred” from child bearing or fish are “barred” from land.

Men and women aren’t “barred” from anything.

To clarify what you are saying:

The Church does not disciminate on the basis of sex, but that does not mean the Church does not have the authority to exclude anyone from some role or other on the basis of sex. While it is usually a case of “this is possible” (ordination of males to the priesthood and marriage between a man and a woman) and “this is not possible, as the nature of the thing forbids it” (as in the ordination of women or the marriage of two people of the same sex), that does not mean that the Church has no authority, for instance, to say that only boys may be altar servers or to admit both boys and girls to be altar servers. This applies in the realm where the position in question is one that no one has by right, but one that is only given by election and chosen not on the basis of “possible” or “impossible,” but as a choice among alternatives that are more or less suitable for a just reason. It is not inherently unjust to make this position or that one to which only one sex may be elected when it would have been possible or permissible to elect either. That is because one’s sex is not an accidental and irrelevant part of how one might serve in some capacity or other.

Having said that, the Church would deem it unjust to discriminate against someone in choosing among candidates for a role in which sex or some other attribute that is relevant under other circumstances is irrelevant in the particular circumstance in which the choice is being made. The Church has formally taken a stance against unjust discrimination in general and on the basis of sex specifically:

“….with respect to the fundamental rights of the person, every type of discrimination, whether social or cultural, whether based on sex, race, color, social condition, language or religion, is to be overcome and eradicated as contrary to God’s intent. For in truth it must still be regretted that fundamental personal rights are still not being universally honored. Such is the case of a woman who is denied the right to choose a husband freely, to embrace a state of life or to acquire an education or cultural benefits equal to those recognized for men.” (Gaudium et Spes, Pastoral Consitution on the Church in the Modern World, Dec. 7, 1965, 29.)

This person is terrible confused and needs your prayers. This person is a woman.

Yes, this is a woman with an extremely difficult identity confusion. That our time is itself confused about how to treat sexual differences justly and truly does not help, either.

 

[1ke]

To clarify what you are saying:

The Church does not disciminate on the basis of sex, but that does not mean the Church does not have the authority to exclude anyone from some role or other on the basis of sex.

Agreed.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I guess when people talk about gender they more or less use stereotypes, such as linking femininity with liking pink, knitting, afraid of animals, obsessed with fashion and makeup. Likewise the distorted stereotypes for masculinity. These stereotypes just distort what it means to be male or female. I compare it to funhouse mirrors, which it is a reflection but a distorted reflection.

Especially when one considers that at the turn of the 20th century, newborn BOYS were dressed in pink and newborn GIRLS in blue, that men (especially sailors) were often the primary knitters in a given culture for centuries that men in society were often the ones wearing more expensive clothing, whose fashions underwent the most change, who wore makeup, wigs, high heels, jewelry, etc . .

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Gender “roles” are pretty superficial. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter who cooks, cleans, or who works outside of the home at what job just so long as everyone is happy, well fed, respected, and any kids are being properly nurtured, looked after, and loved. Each family has to figure out their own schedules, priorities, values, and skills and do what works best for them.

But gender dynamics are important. Even from a religious point of view though, that really only comes up in marriage (Ephesians 5, for example). And outside of religion, it’s still something to really consider. If you want a modern, egalitarian family, you should consider that in choosing a partner. Same if you want a more traditional relationship and family.

And modern life is really making traditional roles obsolete anyway. Even if I wanted to stay home, there just isn’t enough for me to do in the day. I don’t live on a farm and cleaning, laundry, and cooking all take far less time than they used to. I spend most of my day doing traditionally masculine work, but I relate to my husband in a very stereotypical, traditional, gendered way.

 

[Bonnie]

Gender “roles” are pretty superficial. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter who cooks, cleans, or who works outside of the home at what job just so long as everyone is happy, well fed, respected, and any kids are being properly nurtured, looked after, and loved. Each family has to figure out their own schedules, priorities, values, and skills and do what works best for them.

You nailed it. Gender roles depend very much on culture, and it’s usually difficult for some people when the culture starts to change - as it always will.

My favorite example of a modern family is in my parish. She’s a doctor (was mine until my insurance changed & I had to change doctors ), her husband stays home with their 3 kids. They are all active in the Church and lovely people. They’ve been doing this for more than 15 years.

 

[DebChris]

Gender “roles” are pretty superficial. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter who cooks, cleans, or who works outside of the home at what job just so long as everyone is happy, well fed, respected, and any kids are being properly nurtured, looked after, and loved. Each family has to figure out their own schedules, priorities, values, and skills and do what works best for them.

But gender dynamics are important. Even from a religious point of view though, that really only comes up in marriage (Ephesians 5, for example). And outside of religion, it’s still something to really consider. If you want a modern, egalitarian family, you should consider that in choosing a partner. Same if you want a more traditional relationship and family.

And modern life is really making traditional roles obsolete anyway. Even if I wanted to stay home, there just isn’t enough for me to do in the day. I don’t live on a farm and cleaning, laundry, and cooking all take far less time than they used to. I spend most of my day doing traditionally masculine work, but I relate to my husband in a very stereotypical, traditional, gendered way.

For those who think they are in the wrong body, I ask the question, “How would you know?” Throughout my life I have found myself in what are considered traditionally male roles. Oftentimes it’s because that’s where my interests led me. As a girl, the games boys played were far more interesting than playing house and jumping rope. Plus it was where my skills lay.
Bonnie Prudden, in her book How to Keep Your Child Fit from Birth to Six states if you have a tomboy, cherish her because she is being prepared for something special. I am thankful for the seventh grade teacher who said that athletic women are often the most feminine. Not everybody has that in their life. Yes, I was the only girl in my high school chemistry class. I wanted to go to college.
Even in my adult life, I asked questions such as, "Do they ever let women…? " and I would find myself as the only woman going through the same Army course as men. As long as I pulled my weight on the job, the men just saw me as one of them. That in no way made me any less of a woman when I went home to my husband at night.
During the past week I have reflected on how the men in my life have encouraged me in these various roles, indeed pushed me.
I did grow up in a family with pragmatic parents who understood that not every woman marries, and that every man will spend part of his life as a bachelor. One brother taught me to cook rice while another taught me to sew the buttons on his shirt. It was my brothers who taught me to throw a football. Both genders were expected to do housework and yard work. Chores around the house were not divided into gender roles.

 

[GratefulFred]

Please read Ephesians Chapter 5 especially verse 21 to 33 on wives and husbands. Verse 21 states: **Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. ** The passage goes on to talk of love and respect.

Pope Francis recently said this in his regular Wednesday Audience:

“The difference between man and woman is not for opposition, or subordination, but for communion and creation, always in the image and likeness of God.”

“I wonder, for example, if the so-called gender theory is also an expression of frustration and resignation, which aims to erase sexual difference because they can no longer deal with it. Yes, we risk taking a step back,” he said.

“The removal of the difference, in fact, is the problem, not the solution. **To solve their relationship problems, man and the woman should instead talk more, listen more, know more, [and] love each other more. They must treat each other with respect and cooperate with friendship.” **

As for women intended to be uneducated, I am at a loss to find that command in the Bible. I am aware that 3 of the 35 Doctors of the Church are women:

St Catherine of Sienna (1300s);
St Teresa of Avila (1500s); and
St Therese of Lisieux (1800s).

I also note that we have some 780 women Saints. And to be anything she wants to be, I offer St Joan of Arc, not your typical subordinate woman.

 

[Bonnie]

…and I would find myself as the only woman going through the same Army course as men.

Back in 1972 I was in the first Army truck driving course open to women - there were 3 of us. Some of the boys had trouble accepting us as equals, but the men didn’t. (Snark intended!)

Around the homestead we do what we are able to. Husband does the jobs that require muscles because I don’t have much in that department. I happen to enjoy cooking. As we get older we’re helping each other on chores a lot more. We just don’t worry about what is “manly” or “womanly.”

 

[johnnyt3000]

The Church “demeans” women? I guess someone forgot who the Blessed Mother of God is, who is also Queen and Mother of all mankind and of all heaven and earth. Not to mention all the female Saints and Doctors of the Church (not implying that they are all female).
God designed men to give spiritual life as Priests. God designed women to give physical, biological life.

 

[Xantippe]

Around the homestead we do what we are able to. Husband does the jobs that require muscles because I don’t have much in that department. I happen to enjoy cooking. As we get older we’re helping each other on chores a lot more. We just don’t worry about what is “manly” or “womanly.”

At home, everybody ought to do what they can and what their spouse needs from them at that time.

My grandparents are now 93 (grandpa) and almost 90 (grandma). After grandpa had his second (!) round of hip replacements, grandma had to get down and tie grandpa’s shoes. Meanwhile, grandma’s sight has been failing and she isn’t able to measure stuff in the kitchen anymore, so grandpa has to measure stuff out for her.

 

[chevalier]

As you’re still new, you may be used to using typical secular views (which often pass unchallenged despite not really having any serious foundation) as the primary point of reference, giving them the presumption of correctness etc.

I’ll give you some quotes from the Catechism:

• III. “MALE AND FEMALE HE CREATED THEM”

Equality and difference willed by God

369 Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. “Being man” or “being woman” is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator.240 Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity “in the image of God”. In their “being-man” and “being-woman”, they reflect the Creator’s wisdom and goodness.

370 In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.241

“Each for the other” - “A unity in two”

371 God created man and woman together and willed each for the other. The Word of God gives us to understand this through various features of the sacred text. "It is not good that the man should be alone. I will make him a helper fit for him."242 None of the animals can be man’s partner.243 The woman God “fashions” from the man’s rib and brings to him elicits on the man’s part a cry of wonder, an exclamation of love and communion: "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh."244 Man discovers woman as another “I”, sharing the same humanity.

372 Man and woman were made “for each other” - not that God left them half-made and incomplete: he created them to be a communion of persons, in which each can be “helpmate” to the other, for they are equal as persons (“bone of my bones. . .”) and complementary as masculine and feminine. In marriage God unites them in such a way that, by forming “one flesh”,245 they can transmit human life: "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth."246 By transmitting human life to their descendants, man and woman as spouses and parents cooperate in a unique way in the Creator’s work.247

373 In God’s plan man and woman have the vocation of “subduing” the earth248 as stewards of God. This sovereignty is not to be an arbitrary and destructive domination. God calls man and woman, made in the image of the Creator “who loves everything that exists”,249 to share in his providence toward other creatures; hence their responsibility for the world God has entrusted to them.

(Link)

Equal doesn’t mean identical. Different doesn’t mean unequal. Women can be race drivers and car mechanics and martial arts instructions and a couple of other things, and men can be nursery school teachers, nurses, florists and what have you. Various societal ideas of proper mores are just simply not actual Catholic moral rules but only e.g. dominant sentiments among the bourgeoisie. But at the same time, differences (which does not mean totalitarian scripts to conform to and act out) are real, as much as some misguided people would like us to believe they are not.

 

[DebChris]

As you’re still new, you may be used to using typical secular views (which often pass unchallenged despite not really having any serious foundation) as the primary point of reference, giving them the presumption of correctness etc.

I’ll give you some quotes from the Catechism:

(Link)

Equal doesn’t mean identical. Different doesn’t mean unequal. Women can be race drivers and car mechanics and martial arts instructions and a couple of other things, and men can be nursery school teachers, nurses, florists and what have you. Various societal ideas of proper mores are just simply not actual Catholic moral rules but only e.g. dominant sentiments among the bourgeoisie. But at the same time, differences (which does not mean totalitarian scripts to conform to and act out) are real, as much as some misguided people would like us to believe they are not.

St. John Paul II further points out that it was only after God created woman that man fully understood that he was made in the image and likeness of his creator.
“Bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh,” man saw his reflection in woman.
I’m trying to remember who recently said that Eve was not chosen for her weakness, but for her ability to influence Adam.

 

[Walking_Home]

The Church “demeans” women? I guess someone forgot who the Blessed Mother of God is, who is also Queen and Mother of all mankind and of all heaven and earth. Not to mention all the female Saints and Doctors of the Church (not implying that they are all female).
God designed men to give spiritual life as Priests. God designed women to give physical, biological life.

---

While only men can be ordained as priests – do not discount the role of women in building spiritual life. Women can teach the Faith/guide the spiritual life of others.

Also take note of the following:

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE COLLABORATION OF MEN AND WOMEN
IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE WORLD

Although motherhood is a key element of women’s identity, this does not mean that women should be considered from the sole perspective of physical procreation. In this area, there can be serious distortions, which extol biological fecundity in purely quantitative terms and are often accompanied by dangerous disrespect for women. The existence of the Christian vocation of virginity, radical with regard to both the Old Testament tradition and the demands made by many societies, is of the greatest importance in this regard.17 Virginity refutes any attempt to enclose women in mere biological destiny. Just as virginity receives from physical motherhood the insight that there is no Christian vocation except in the concrete gift of oneself to the other, so physical motherhood receives from virginity an insight into its fundamentally spiritual dimension: it is in not being content only to give physical life that the other truly comes into existence. This means that motherhood can find forms of full realization also where there is no physical procreation.18

The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved the present Letter, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered its publication.

Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, May 31, 2004, the Feast of the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

• Joseph Card. Ratzinger
  Prefect

• Angelo Amato, SDB
  Titular Archbishop of Sila
  Secretary

 

[DebChris]

Back in 1972 I was in the first Army truck driving course open to women - there were 3 of us. Some of the boys had trouble accepting us as equals, but the men didn’t. (Snark intended!)

Around the homestead we do what we are able to. Husband does the jobs that require muscles because I don’t have much in that department. I happen to enjoy cooking. As we get older we’re helping each other on chores a lot more. We just don’t worry about what is “manly” or “womanly.”

You can imagine the explosion during annual training when Regular Army discovered that my Reserve unit was hiding a fully trained drill sergeant in the secretarial pool.
During Reserve meetings, it wasn’t unusual for visitors to ask why I wasn’t the one cooking, or didn’t go to cook school.
Of course, due to my unique role, San Quentin spent a great deal of time trying to recruit me as one of their guards. No thank you.

 

[TheOrigen]

As a recently confirmed Catholic (and a woman), I am frequently accused that the Church demeans women. My knee-jerk reaction was to say that God made men and women, not only men or only women. They are obviously different in many ways. Naturally, they should be suited for different duties. I was content with this explanation, but lately I have been thinking about it and it has been bothering me.

You can tell them one of two things:

If you don’t want an argument tell them that you feel God led you here (welcome home) and you must do what God says, whether or not others agree.

However, if you don’t mind getting a little dirty in the trenches so to speak, tell them that they are seeing reality the wrong way. The Church does not demean women. Society demeans women, by demeaning traits that are consistently thought of as “feminine.” Think about how hard a stay-at-home mom works just to keep the family afloat. Yet there are many in society that tell her she has to go out and get a career, and look down on her for her “unemployment” because it’s holding women back.

Think about how much our society does everything it can to prevent a woman’s reproductive system from working correctly, and then when it does work correctly it forcibly enters her womb and kills the child inside of her. Think of the objectification of women in television and in the media. Think of the “gender roles” on TV, where the man is a complete doofus and the woman will never stop nagging.

We live in a society where a woman will actually put pads in her suit to appear more “powerful.”

The Church does not demean women, but instead encourages femininity, as opposed to society, which is consistently attempting to root it out at all costs. Society does not want traits it thinks are feminine like love, endless kindness, patience, or religion. Society wants traits it thinks are masculine like power, confrontation, control, and self-reliance. It wants both men and women to exercise these traits, when both genders should be exercising the first set.

Please, I beg you, do not read me wrong. I am not saying women shouldn’t work. I am not saying that women will or even should fit all stereotypes, nor will men. Nor am I saying that one parent has to stay home with the kids, nor whether it should be a man or woman.

What I am saying is that things that are traditionally seen as feminine are greatly undervalued in our society, and that that is demeaning to women, because a woman should not have to demonstrate traits thought of as masculine to be valued. The poorest stay at home mother who works so hard to keep her children and her husband fed on the limited budget he makes but stays home because it’s good for their kids that they generously allowed to come to being despite their surroundings should be just as applauded and valued as the glass-ceiling breaking businesswoman who makes millions of dollars. But they are not, and that is what is demeaning to women.