Catholic to Agnostic?

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That’s a lot of retreats. And having someone who isn’t your parent make those speeches about “beautifully wrapped presents” and “bite of that chocolate” would have made me and just about every girl I knew then be giggling, rolling our eyes or just wishing we were anywhere but in that room, and we probably would have been making bad jokes about it for weeks to get over the embarrassment. I dunno, maybe they teach kids differently today, but I’m decades past being a teenager and that still strikes me as creepy.

I hope, whether or not you decide to stay in the Church (and I would hope you would decide to stay of course because it’s really all about Jesus), you get out and meet a variety of other Catholics because it seems like you’ve been exposed to a pretty narrow spectrum.
 
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rgtg11 said:
“See this beautifully wrapped present? well, every time a man other than your husband does something sexual with you, a piece gets ripped away. And what would you rather give your husband, the fully wrapped present, or a tattered and torn box?”
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I’ve heard these bad analogies before. It’s an awful thing to say to anyone. That’s a horrible analogy, and so were the rest of them. I am sorry you went through that. It’s upsetting to me that so many young girls were told that.

You are a beautifully wrapped present, and no one can take that from you.
 
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Hi, I am not yet Catholic, and I come from an evangelical background. I may not really be qualified to answer you, since I only started learning about Catholicism this year. (and I have not yet started the RCIA program)

Even though I was raised in a Christian home, I went through a time in my adolescent years as an atheist (and as agnostic later), then for the majority of my adult life: willing to believe in anything but Christianity and the Bible. So let me ask you some questions to consider.

What purpose will your life have without God?

What can you gain from this world if you have to leave everything behind when you die?

The things of this world are temporal. A woman I consider to be my spiritual grandmother told me that nothing in this world will ever fill the hole in your heart. The only one who can make you whole is Jesus Christ. (This idea comes from Pascal.)

In all my wandering, I have found that to be true. There is nothing in this world that will ever satisfy you, because you were created to worship the one, true and living God, three persons in one: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Also, I wish I had some quotes from “Mere Christianity” by C. S. Lewis right now, but it has been a while since I read it. I really recommend reading it. He was an atheist who became Christian.
 
rgtg11 said:
Specifically, I don’t understand why the Church is so vocally opposed to gay relationships/gay marriage when the Bible says more about the immorality of divorce than it does about gay people. It offends my sense of mercy and justice to tell someone that they cannot ever marry or be in a relationship because of who they are attracted to.
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If you really think the Bible says nothing or little about homosexuality you are mistaken. Click on this link.

 
@rgtg11

How would the Catholic Church change to make it ideal for you?
 
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Lee1 said:
How would the Catholic Church change to make it ideal for you?
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Not that the Church is going to actually change to make it “ideal” for any one of us.
Plus, what the OP thinks is “ideal” for them is not likely to be the “ideal” for every person on this earth.

Not a great line of thinking IMHO.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Not a great line of thinking IMHO.
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My line of thinking is that the OP could list some reasons why she’s not happy with the church by stating what changes she would make which would convince her to stay.

By doing that she and we can see more clearly just how big the divide is between the Church as it is and the Church as she would like it. Obviously, and I mean obviously, the Church is not going to change nor should it imho.

Simply a theoretical exercise and a reasonable exploration I think.
 
As for the “purity culture” and “gender roles” that you say the Church espouses…I don’t really think that these are inherently Catholic ideas. I am a devout Catholic and am very happy to be Catholic, but I also disagree with the enforcement traditional gender roles. Some women may discern that they should stay at home and raise their kids, but others may discern that they should continuing working. It’s different for every woman; God doesn’t call all women to lead identical lives. Have you ever read JP2’s letter to women? It’s a good read-- Letter to Women (June 29, 1995) | John Paul II. He doesn’t say what I’ve said in particular, but, given that we’re talking about women and the Church, it seemed like a good thing to share.

As for the “purity culture,” purity is good and all, but I also agree that the way in which it is presented is sometimes not so awesome. Again, I don’t think this is Catholicism’s fault. There’s obviously nothing in Catholicism that says we should shame girls who have made mistakes. On the contrary, God is always waiting for those who have gone astray to come back so that He can give them His mercy! The sometimes poor presentation of these subjects has to do with individual Catholics, not what the Church teaches as a whole.

As you think about this stuff, consider that you live in a particular country at a particular time in history. Consider how much of the “purity culture” and “gender roles” have to do with our particular time and place and how much is actually proper to Catholicism itself. I have been attending a Brazilian parish for some Masses and have discovered that Brazilian Catholicism has a very different flavor from American Catholicism; in fact, I think that American Catholics have a lot to learn from our Catholic brethren in other countries!
 
clarkgamble said:
I think that Catholics, and believers in general, are in truth closet agnostics. Believers in general admit they have no proof for their beliefs, just a feeling that they are correct in those beliefs. They might as well say “I don’t know for sure if God exists”. Which is basically what the agnostic is not afraid to say.
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The problem with your entire post is that in the world of a believer, a lack of logical proof does not equate to “I don’t know for sure if God exists.” Many believers, including myself, are quite certain of God’s existence without needing, and without being able to show, any logical proof. It’s called “faith” and it has nothing to do with being afraid to say anything, but people like you choose to see it that way due to your own biases.
 
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I think that atheists, and non-believers in general, are in truth closet Catholics. Non-believers in general admit they have no proof for their beliefs, just a feeling that they are correct in those beliefs. They might as well say “I don’t want to admit that God exists”. Which is basically what the Catholic is not afraid to say.

Sounds ludicrous when I say it. What makes you think that it’s any less wrong when you say it?
 
I understand. Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit. I pray that one day you might also receive it.

If and when you do, you’ll understand it has nothing to do with “I hope God exists”, you will know He does.

God bless
 
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One doesn’t accept “things”, one accepts God.

I’m actually pretty cynical in every other area of life. That to me confirms faith is a gift, because by purely logical standards, I should be an agnostic or atheist like most of my friends. I’m not and have only had doubts about 3 days out of my life.
 
I have to agree with you. There are a lot of things in life I want to be true, and I live as if they are true. But because I can’t prove they are true, nor can anyone else, I am comfortable with leaving it at that. I like to believe we are connected to each other on a spiritual level. I can feel it. I see some evidence of it. But there are a lot of variables and it can’t be proven scientifically. So I would never say it is the absolute truth, that everyone else should believe it, or that because someone else doesn’t believe it they have some how missed out on a gift of sorts from a higher power. That is not for me to say.

I hear ya.
 
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