Catholic Traditon vs Science - are we looking deep enough

[mulligan59]

If evolution is only a hoax, why do 100,000 biologists use it productively every day to advance science? Meanwhile Young Earth Creationists with missing teeth and only high school educations (if that) sit around their trailers complaining that evolution is a hoax, and doing nothing for humanity.

In what way do you suppose that biologists “use evolution” to advance science? What does “advance science” even mean for a biologist? Biology is primarily a system of classification. Anyway, I still have most of my teeth although my diet of grits, chaw and moonshine doesn’t demand much of them. Well, gotta go clean my squirel gun, maybe get me some supper…

 

[mulligan59]

Gravity is only a theory. Plate tectonics is only a theory. Relativity is only a theory.

Gravity, unlike evolution, yields predictable, repeatable results in the laboratory or in application (ballistics). Plate teutonics has real problems, hydroplate theory works better (and supports the flood). Relativity, no one really believes it anymore (no real scientists) and it was essentially invented to salvage Galileo’s Copernican Universe in light of the inability to “prove” that the earth is moving. Objective physical evidence is that it does not.

 

[drpmjhess]

Well, gotta go clean my squirel gun, maybe get me some supper…

Good luck! But ‘member not to hit them stars with yore shotgun pellets – they is whizzin’ roun th’ earth mighty close ev’ry twenny-four hours, ‘cept in the crazy theory o’ that crackpot Galileo!

 

[drpmjhess]

Recap: your argument is: I say God is who I say; never mind what He says about Himself in the Bible–that’s an antiquated book written by antifeminists (men).]

Those are your words.

 

[mulligan59]

Good luck! But ‘member not to hit them stars with yore shotgun pellets – they is whizzin’ roun th’ earth mighty close ev’ry twenny-four hours, ‘cept in the crazy theory o’ that crackpot Galileo!

Touche’ on the humor. However for clarification a “squirrel gun” is not a shotgun, but a small caliber, highly accurate rifle, also sometimes referred to as a “varmint gun”. And you didn’t answer the question as to what good is done by science through applied evolution. Do you have an example in mind? By the way, the sun does travel very fast around the earth, but it is way out of range of gunfire. Trust me on that.

 

[HelenRose]

We have not cloned a man yet, so know no one knows. And if we did, only God would know if that man had a soul. He may have an intellect and a will, this could be a sign that he could have a soul. But until someone is cloned(actually I hope that doesn’t happen) we won’t know. The soul is part of God that is put into our biological forms. That is why we yearn for something more in life. The beasts of the Earth don’t have this trait. Will God allow a person that has been made by science to have a piece of Himself? I’m not sure.

If a human being is some day cloned there is no doubt in my mind that a baby is a baby is a baby and that that child will have a soul. My heart would ache for this child for his or her parents would be the elderly parent’s of the individual whose ego spurned the all bonds of human love. A clone would be the younger sibling of identical twins. This would be a horrible thing to do to a brother or sister.

 

[drpmjhess]

Do you have an example in mind? By the way, the sun does travel very fast around the earth, but it is way out of range of gunfire. Trust me on that.

Lots of good, such as the development of new antibiotics to anticipate the evolution of new superbugs, such as MRSA.

Since the sun is 332,950 times the mass of the Earth, how does the physics of it work to have the sun revovling around the earth rather then the earth revolving around the sun? And How does an entire universe of stars and a hundred billion galaxies – some of them ten billion light years away – revolve around the th earth in 24 hours?

Petrus

 

[drpmjhess]

The soul is part of God that is put into our biological forms. That is why we yearn for something more in life. The beasts of the Earth don’t have this trait. Will God allow a person that has been made by science to have a piece of Himself? I’m not sure.

The soul is not a piece of God. That would, technically speaking, be pantheism, contrary to Catholic doctrine, as well as making no sense.

 

[drpmjhess]

If a human being is some day cloned there is no doubt in my mind that a baby is a baby is a baby and that that child will have a soul. My heart would ache for this child for his or her parents would be the elderly parent’s of the individual whose ego spurned the all bonds of human love. A clone would be the younger sibling of identical twins. This would be a horrible thing to do to a brother or sister.

You’re right – of course a clone would have a soul, just like a twin. And it would be a dreadful situation to put a clone into.

 

[reggieM]

If Stalinist-Marxism is only a hoax, why do 100,000,000 people use it productively every day to advance politics? Meanwhile American Democrats with missing teeth and only high school educations (if that) sit around their trailers complaining that Communism is a hoax, and doing nothing for humanity.

 

[edwest2]

In what way do you suppose that biologists “use evolution” to advance science? What does “advance science” even mean for a biologist? Biology is primarily a system of classification. Anyway, I still have most of my teeth although my diet of grits, chaw and moonshine doesn’t demand much of them. Well, gotta go clean my squirel gun, maybe get me some supper…

Again, you are denigrating a group of peope who live in trailers. Sadly, you seem to believe that moving from trailers to the “big city” automatically raises a person’s IQ.

Evolution is nonsensical as presented in biology textbooks. Also, the “Bible Explanation Industry” is always trying to figure out how to turn Biblical miracles into natural events.

People are turning to a worship of the mind of man.

1. The clock fallacy. “Look! It’s the 21st Century!” Yeah, so? Did wisdom or knowledge or enlightenment pour into anyone’s head because the date changed on the calendar? No.
   People in the “old days” were dumb, “modern” people are smart. Yeah, right. Ask the nearest teenager or the Average Joe about anything.
2. The Bible was written by men fallacy. The Bible was written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God. Period.

But the new mantra has become “we believe in science with our whole hearts and whole minds and whole souls. Science will cure us and save us and bring us power and wisdom.”

And the serpent told Eve: “Ye shall be as gods.”

God bless,
Ed

 

[mulligan59]

Lots of good, such as the development of new antibiotics to anticipate the evolution of new superbugs, such as MRSA.

Since the sun is 332,950 times the mass of the Earth, how does the physics of it work to have the sun revovling around the earth rather then the earth revolving around the sun? And How does an entire universe of stars and a hundred billion galaxies – some of them ten billion light years away – revolve around the th earth in 24 hours?

Petrus

MRSA is not a particular bug, but a generic name for the topical infection. Bacteria, or insects, or guys who drink alot, developing higher tolerances to particular toxins (antibiotics or Jack Daniels) is not the same as a new species being born of a differnent one. This has NEVER been observed on any level. Regarding the mass of the sun, you apparently are alluding to Newton’s Inverse Square Law. It would be true if the Sun and the Earth were the only two bodies in play. But there are of course millions of bodies in the universe, each having a gravitational influence on the others to some degree. The Earth might well be at the center, at a gravational equilibrium point. In a large system, it just isn’t obvious where the center of mass really is. The entire universe doesn’t have to circumvent the Earth every day. Some of the stars take years, even centuries to complete the circuit. But if God had wanted to make it all go around every day, why couldn’t he?

 

[mulligan59]

Again, you are denigrating a group of peope who live in trailers. Sadly, you seem to believe that moving from trailers to the “big city” automatically raises a person’s IQ.

Evolution is nonsensical as presented in biology textbooks. Also, the “Bible Explanation Industry” is always trying to figure out how to turn Biblical miracles into natural events.

People are turning to a worship of the mind of man.

1. The clock fallacy. “Look! It’s the 21st Century!” Yeah, so? Did wisdom or knowledge or enlightenment pour into anyone’s head because the date changed on the calendar? No.
   People in the “old days” were dumb, “modern” people are smart. Yeah, right. Ask the nearest teenager or the Average Joe about anything.
2. The Bible was written by men fallacy. The Bible was written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God. Period.

But the new mantra has become “we believe in science with our whole hearts and whole minds and whole souls. Science will cure us and save us and bring us power and wisdom.”

And the serpent told Eve: “Ye shall be as gods.”

God bless,
Ed

Ed,

I agree with EVERYTHING you just said here. However, you were responding to a post of mine, which was in turn a response to some guy defending evolution and disparaging trailer dwellers (implying they are the only people who don’t believe in evolution). When I talked about my teeth and shooting squirrels I was being saracastic (as cleary lthe guy was (name removed by moderator)ugning me). Wouldn’t want you to get the wrong idea about me.

Bless you too.

 

[jcrichton]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrichton
Recap: your argument is: I say God is who I say; never mind what He says about Himself in the Bible–that’s an antiquated book written by antifeminists (men).

Hi, drpmjhess!

Technically, you are correct.

Here’s the source of my text:

Quote: Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow
Yes we are definitely missing something. Perhaps we have misinterpreted that the Holy Spirit keeps the Church error free. We have done a great deal of twisting and turning to try to keep that conclusion inviolate. Since we obviously have in the past misunderstood the import of Genesis, perhaps we have failed to understand this concept properly as well. Of course that does open up a rather nasty little basket doesn’t it?

I agree with you, the Holy Spirit is not asleep. She is always present.

So it must be us.
Hi!

…could you explain how you came to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit welcomes your female personification?

…is your screen name based on wicca?

Maran atha!

Angel

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow
Since the Godhead is ungendered pure Spirit,it is neither male nor female. It is both and neither. I have no idea how the Spirit receives my particular appelation. I imagine with a smile, since it but touches the surface of the Spirit’s reality. How do you feel She likes your reference as male? Please don’t bother with the biblical references which were all written by men

.

No I have no affiliation with wicca, and frankly know next to nothing about such beliefs or practices. Can you enlighten me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrichton
Hi!

I am afraid I cannot!

So I must simply allow you to exist in your realm!

Maran atha!

Angel

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrichton
Hi!

I am afraid I cannot!

So I must simply allow you to exist in your realm!

Maran atha!

Angel

allow me to exist in your realm? Are you Don Quixote?

Namaste

Hi!

…let’s see if I can explain it better…

…you come to a game (say Uno) and you decide: “let’s throw all the rules away; from now on we play by my rules…”

I consider that to be a secondary world; hence realm.

In that realm the fact that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (Male) and from the Son (Male) equals anything goes–so if say “you” decide that God is both male and female it is just OK.

…now Don Quixote, as I recall, was not interested in creating new realms… he simply wanted to defend the needy; true his quest was in a state of confusion, but he was not intent on destroying the world around him to make it into his dream-land…

Recap: your argument is: I say God is who I say; never mind what He says about Himself in the Bible–that’s an antiquated book written by antifeminists (men).

Maran atha!

Angel

Can you see it now?

My personal summation is based on the statements quoted in bold letters.

Perhaps you can analize the text highlighted in bold and come up with a different understanding… me, I’m a simple man… using simple logic.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[drpmjhess]

Perhaps you can analize the text highlighted in bold and come up with a different understanding… me, I’m a simple man… using simple logic.Maran atha!Angel

The Holy Spirit has neither a male member that has been seen, nor a Y chromosome that we know of.

 

[drpmjhess]

Some of the stars take years, even centuries to complete the circuit. But if God had wanted to make it all go around every day, why couldn’t he?

No - every star goes around the earth every 24 hours. The Sungenites claim it is the whole universe that revolves around the earth – at an unimaginable speed. Copernicus’ elegant explanation shifts the point of reference, that so from the platform of a moving earth the universe appears to be revolving around the earth.

Strange – I never thought I would haver to defend heliocentrism on Catholic Answers!

Petrus

 

[mulligan59]

Hi, mulligan!

Excellent argument!

This is just explosive! :extrahappy:

Maran atha!

Angel

You’re very kind. Thanks. It is just so much we are told we take for granted, uncritical. We should not be on the defensive.

 

[jcrichton]

If Stalinist-Marxism is only a hoax, why do 100,000,000 people use it productively every day to advance politics? Meanwhile American Democrats with missing teeth and only high school educations (if that) sit around their trailers complaining that Communism is a hoax, and doing nothing for humanity.

Hi, reggieM!

…I’ve noticed that you keep coming back to the argument of the uneducated being drunks/drugadicts who just sit around complaining about all the good that the intellectuals do… do you equate the learned with good and the ignorant with bad–as in “the suit” would not commit murder or any other crime/immoral act which only “blue collar/lesser being” are fated to commit?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[mulligan59]

No - every star goes around the earth every 24 hours. The Sungenites claim it is the whole universe that revolves around the earth – at an unimaginable speed. Copernicus’ elegant explanation shifts the point of reference, that so from the platform of a moving earth the universe appears to be revolving around the earth.

Strange – I never thought I would haver to defend heliocentrism on Catholic Answers!

Petrus

No I don’t think so. Our “solar system” yes, every day, every star, no. The astrological ages vary over centuries. But even if I am wrong, what’s the difference. What is too fast? Couldn’t God have made it work? Regarding the defense of heliocentrism, why would you want to? It isn’t proven. It was used to embarass the Church, it paved the way for the Reformation, Evolution, Freud, Marx and every other social / spiritual pathology.

 

[drpmjhess]

No I don’t think so. Our “solar system” yes, every day, every star, no. The astrological ages vary over centuries. But even if I am wrong, what’s the difference. What is too fast? Couldn’t God have made it work? Regarding the defense of heliocentrism, why would you want to? It isn’t proven. It was used to embarass the Church, it paved the way for the Reformation, Evolution, Freud, Marx and every other social / spiritual pathology.

I don’t know whether you’ve observed the sky at night, but is the entire sky that appears to revolve around the earth; every star, galaxy, nebula, etc. Besides, heliocentrism was proven in the 19th century with the observation of stellar parallax. I’m still pinching myself to believe that we’re having this conversation in 2008!