Catholic Truth Dissolved by Contemporary O.F. Liturgy

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My wife and I attended Mass in the Extraordinary Form today, said by a priest of the Fraternity of St. Peter. The priest, in his sermon, said that we should not attend what he called the Novus Ordo because of the extensive liturgical abuses. By this he meant things like the priest facing the congregation, lots of communion ministers, the vernacular–all the changes made after Vatican II but not called for specifically by the council. He said that people go to great lengths to avoid catching the flu, they should be even more careful to avoid losing their faith and therefore should avoid the N.O. I don’t know what to think. For one thing, by his measure, there is no where else to attend Mass within hundreds of miles except his Mass. What about evangelization? By his measure, we should only evangelize to the E.F. It doesn’t seem right, but I can’t verbalize why. Would you please help me to clarify my thoughts? Thank you and God bless you.
 
It is enough to know that everything that this priest said goes against the thoughts, opinions and wishes of Pope Benedict and the Bishops of the Church. The last thing that we need today is yet another priest who is not submissive to the Holy See.
 
My wife and I attended Mass in the Extraordinary Form today, said by a priest of the Fraternity of St. Peter. The priest, in his sermon, said that we should not attend what he called the Novus Ordo because of the extensive liturgical abuses. By this he meant things like the priest facing the congregation, lots of communion ministers, the vernacular–all the changes made after Vatican II but not called for specifically by the council. He said that people go to great lengths to avoid catching the flu, they should be even more careful to avoid losing their faith and therefore should avoid the N.O. I don’t know what to think. For one thing, by his measure, there is no where else to attend Mass within hundreds of miles except his Mass. What about evangelization? By his measure, we should only evangelize to the E.F. It doesn’t seem right, but I can’t verbalize why. Would you please help me to clarify my thoughts? Thank you and God bless you.
The reason you can not verbalize why it doesn’t seem right, is because you are intimidated by his authority as a priest.
He is wrong to tell catholics they should not attend a Novus Ordo Mass on his own authority. Report him to your archdiocese.
 
Are you sure you were at an FSSP mass and not an SSPX mass? This doesn’t sound right.
 
Thanks. Yes I’m sure. FSSP. The Mass was in a diocesan church building. The English Mass was at 9 a.m. beforehand.
 
this priest is doing harm and should be reported. he is preaching against our faith and using scare tactics. avoid him and enjoy Mass.
 
My wife and I attended Mass in the Extraordinary Form today, said by a priest of the Fraternity of St. Peter. The priest, in his sermon, said that we should not attend what he called the Novus Ordo because of the extensive liturgical abuses. By this he meant things like the priest facing the congregation, lots of communion ministers, the vernacular–all the changes made after Vatican II but not called for specifically by the council. He said that people go to great lengths to avoid catching the flu, they should be even more careful to avoid losing their faith and therefore should avoid the N.O. I don’t know what to think. For one thing, by his measure, there is no where else to attend Mass within hundreds of miles except his Mass. What about evangelization? By his measure, we should only evangelize to the E.F. It doesn’t seem right, but I can’t verbalize why. Would you please help me to clarify my thoughts? Thank you and God bless you.
Someone help me out here…I thought the work of FSSP, while operating directly under Rome, is still governed by the local Bishop, and also as part of their agreement with Rome, they are fully subject to the Magesterium of the Church, and are to accept the OF as valid, even though they say the EF. If my understanding is correct, then this priest should not be calling the things listed as litugical abuses, if they are permitted by the local Ordinary, and telling people they risk losing their faith by attending a NO, especially publically, from the pulpit. It seems to me that this priest is being disobedient and could risk some disciplinary action if Rome and the local Bishop got wind of this, and it seems that the FSSP ought to reign him in a bit. They are to be operating within the Church, not outside of it. It seems to me the poster’s instincts are right–something is not kosher here–this priest should not be telling people not to attend a valid and legitimate Mass, the same Mass the Pope says!
 
Things are sometimes said in homilies that go well beyond Church teaching. This one goes beyond Church teaching and contradicts it.
 
I have never heard a FSSP priest make a statement like this, but there is always a loose cannon somewhere at sometime, be it ordinary or extraordinary
 
Wow. I attend a parish run by the FSSP and I have never heard our priests say or even imply such a thing. You might want to contact the North American District (I’m assuming you’re in the US or Canada) and tell them what happened.
fssp.com/press/contact/
I also attended a Tridentine Latin Mass Extraordinary Form in Sarasota, FL run by FSSP. They have no problem obeying Bishop of Venice,FL or The Vatican on issues of Novus Ordo Masses.
Report the problem as ibkc recommended as well as to your diocesan bishop.
 
If you wish to pursue this further:

Before going over the head of this priest you absolutely should speak to him in person so he can and you can discuss and more fully understand what he said and why and whether he should have said one thing or another and inform him of your intentions.
 
Are you sure he said in blunt words that you should not attend the OF? I find it hard to believe an FSSP priest would act this way. Are you sure he didnt just warn against abusive Masses?
 
My wife and I attended Mass in the Extraordinary Form today, said by a priest of the Fraternity of St. Peter. The priest, in his sermon, said that we should not attend what he called the Novus Ordo because of the extensive liturgical abuses. By this he meant things like the priest facing the congregation, lots of communion ministers, the vernacular–all the changes made after Vatican II but not called for specifically by the council. He said that people go to great lengths to avoid catching the flu, they should be even more careful to avoid losing their faith and therefore should avoid the N.O. I don’t know what to think. For one thing, by his measure, there is no where else to attend Mass within hundreds of miles except his Mass. What about evangelization? By his measure, we should only evangelize to the E.F. It doesn’t seem right, but I can’t verbalize why. Would you please help me to clarify my thoughts? Thank you and God bless you.
I am not sure what you find troubling. From what I can see, the priest said nothing out of line.

The state of the Novus Ordo varies from location to location, and priest to priest. Some say it in accordance with the mind of the Church (i.e., reverence, centred on God), and others do the complete opposite to put it bluntly (liturgical dancers [yes they are still around], excessive and unnecessary use of “extraordinary” lay-ministers of Holy Communion, altar girls, secular/pop music, et cetera).

His reference to the flu is probably a reaction to the recent ban on receiving Communion kneeling and on the tongue, which has been set forth by a few Novus Ordo churches. Its ridiculous. Although the communion of the laity is not even a necessary part of the Mass, receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ (under the species of bread for the laity, not the wine, since it would lead to risk of spilling the Blood, possibly illness, etc and since the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are already fully present in the consecrated host) is as Pope Saint Pius X says “the shortest and safest way to Heaven”. Why is it that in certain places, we are not allowed to receive God, kneeling and on the tongue, since as laypersons, we do not have the right to touch the consecrated host, or even the sacred vessels, but we are allowed to pick up God as if He were a potato chip?

:confused:

You should speak with the priest in private first. In my experience, all traditional priests (FSSP, SSPX, ICRSS, etc) are very friendly. 🙂

Today I asked Father (a FSSP priest) if it was okay if I did not receive Communion at the Novus Ordo, and he said that it is fine if I feel that the Holy Ghost is calling me to be elsewhere (i.e., the Latin Mass) and I feel frustrated/vexed at the New Mass. At such (valid) masses, he says that we should just offer up our frustrations, etc to God. Of course though, if the priest uses pastries instead of bread, says “This represents My Body”, etc we should get out of there!
 
Maybe I’m wrong, but my understanding is that while FSSP is dedicated to the celebration of the Extraordinary Form, this society will celebrate in the Ordinary Form in Latin or the vernacular, according to the norms preferred by Benedict XVI.

And I have been told that the OF was even celebrated at Encône during the palmy days of Abp. Marcel!
 
And I have been told that the OF was even celebrated at Encône during the palmy days of Abp. Marcel!
No, the SSPX never said the new Mass. In fact, Archbishop Lefebvre was visited by a Cardinal one day in the early to mid 70’, who had brought with him a new missal. The Archbishop was told that if he celebrated the new mass one time, all his problems would be over. He refused.
 
From what I can see, the priest said nothing out of line.
Then your vision needs checking.

If the priest made the statements as reported, he’s saying that forms of Liturgy approved by the Vatican are invalid. He may not like them, but has no authority to override the Pope and declare them invalid or across-the-board abusive. That is where he would be crossing the line.
…Novus Ordo churches
Please define this term. Churches don’t operate on their own authority, they operate under the authority of the local Bishop. And in case you missed it, female altar servers (not “altar girls”) are perfectly acceptable except to those who refuse to accept authority just because they don’t like something they see. They are serving, not Deacons or Priests.

The correct response to perceived liturgical abuse is to address it and try to get it corrected, using the proper chain of authority and in a charitable way, not give a homily telling people to avoid churches where the priest faces the congregation while celebrating the Mass.
 
My wife and I attended Mass in the Extraordinary Form today, said by a priest of the Fraternity of St. Peter. The priest, in his sermon, said that we should not attend what he called the Novus Ordo because of the extensive liturgical abuses. By this he meant things like the priest facing the congregation, lots of communion ministers, the vernacular–all the changes made after Vatican II but not called for specifically by the council. He said that people go to great lengths to avoid catching the flu, they should be even more careful to avoid losing their faith and therefore should avoid the N.O.
I don’t see how anyone could disagree with what the Priest said. Have you ever studied the changes that the heretics of the 16th century employed in their liturgy, and read their stated reason for these changes? Let me list a few of the changes the heretics of the 16 century employed in order to destroy the Mass:

1.) They employed communion in the hand.
2.) Communion under both kinds.
3.) The “mass” was changed from Latin to the vernacular.
4.) Sacred music was replaced with profane or secular music.
5.) The Minister faced the people.
6.) The Chuches were stripped of the statues.
7.) The sacrificial aspect of the mass was downplayed.
8.) They ceased calling it Mass, and instead used the word Supper of the Lord, or Eucharist

These are the same external changes that are found in the Novus Ordo mass. The stated goal of the Arch-heretic Martin Luther was to destroy the Church by first destroying the Mass.

**Martin Luther: **"I believe and confess that the popish Mass is an invention and ordinance of man, a sacrifice of Antichrist… and that it is a stinking and infected sepulchre, which hideth and covereth the merit of the blood of Christ; and therefore ought the Mass to be abolished”. … “When we have overthrown the Mass” said Luther,” we shall have overthrown the whole Papacy with it. For it is upon the Mass, as upon a rock, that the Papacy rests - with its bishoprics, its colleges, its altars, its ministers, and its doctrines. All these cannot fail to fall once their sacrilegious and abominable Mass crumbles to the dust” (Martin Luther, Against Henry King of England, Werke, Vol 10, pg 220).

St. Alphonsus: “The devil has always attempted, by means of heretics, to deprive the world of the Mass, making them precursors of the antichrist, who before anything else, will try to abolish and will actually abolish the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as a punishment for the sins of men, according to the prediction of Daniel, ‘And strength was given him against the continual sacrifice (Dan 8:12)’.” (St. Alphonsus, The Dignities and Duties of The Priest, p. 212)

It may seem that such changes have no effect of people, but that is not correct. Just look at the fruits of the changes that have been introduced into the Novus Ordo. They are the same fruits produced by the heretics in the 16th century. The sacrificial aspect of the Mass (what the Mass is) has all but disappeared in the minds of Catholics, reverence for the Eucharist has diminished, and the true faith has all but disappeared. All these fruits have a cause. The way a person prays (lex orandi) will have a profound effect on what he believes (lex credendi).

**Pope Leo XIII: **"They [the heretics of the 16th century] knew only too well the intimate bond which unites faith with worship, ‘the law of belief with the law of prayer’(lex orandi, lex credendi), and so, under the pretext of restoring it to its primitive form, they corrupted the order of the liturgy in many respects to adapt it to the errors of the Innovators (reformers)” (Apostolicae Curae).

Luther and Cranmer knew what fruits their changes would produce and they were right. Within one generation the Catholics in England lost the faith. They went from being Catholic to being Anglicans as a result of changes in the Mass and external pressure from the religious and secular authorities.

Now, with the above quote from Luther in mind read what the Vatican Newspaper had to say about the liturgical reform:

L’Osservatore Romano: “We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything that could constitute the slightest stumbling block or displeasure for our separated brethren, that is, for the Protestants” (L’Osservatore Romano, March 16, 1965)."

What was the result?

**L’Osservatore Romano: **“Liturgical reform has taken a notable step forward on the path of ecumenism. It has come closer to the liturgical reforms of the Lutheran Church”. (L’ Osservatore Romano October 13, 1967)

We now have a Catholic Mass that has incorporated virtually all of the external changes intruduced by the heretics of the 16th century. The result is a Catholic Mass that is virtually identical to what I grew up with as an Episcopal (Anglical). In fact, after my sister attended her first Novus Ordo Mass she called me on the phone and said *“that was just like Church when we were kids. I followed right along”. *

As should have been expected, the changes that were incorporated into the Catholic Mass in the late 60’s and early 70’s produced the same fruits as they did when they were introduced by the heretics in the 6th century.

continue…
 
continuation

The Priest of the FSSP was exactly right and he had the courage to say what needed to be said. If people will go to such great lengths to avoid catching the flu, how much more effort should they make to keep the faith - without which there is no salvation… The reality of the situation we are living through today is this: The Bishops and the Popes have not taken effective measures to protect the integrity of the liturgy. The result is corruption of the faith of the laity. Other factors, such as heretical or at least liberal sermons from the Priests (another reason to avoid the Novus Ordo), also contribute to the crisis in faith, but the disintegration of the liturgy itself is surely one of the primary causes… at least that was the opinion of Cardinal Ratzinger:

Cardinal Ratzinger: “I am convinced that the crisis in the Church that we are experiencing today is to a large extent due to disintegration of the liturgy”.

Since none of these things are a problem in the Old Mass, the solution is simple: Whenever possible, avoid the Novus Ordo - “let the dead bury the dead” - and attend only the Traditional Mass, where the Priests still have the Catholic faith and courage to say what needs to be said, where the rubrics are followed faithfully, and where the good fruits are visible for all to see.
 
Meanwile, we went 40 years in the Novus Ordo environment where priests and bishops told everyone that is was wrong to attend the Traditional Latin Mass and no one blinked an eyebrow.
 
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