Catholic Understanding of Predestination

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So, I am confused as to the Church’s doctrine. Instead of asking what it is, I’d like to explain how I see it, and ask you my brothers and sisters to point where I’ve strayed. I do this because I’ve often learned more from where I’m wrong than by being given something and told to understand it.

To me, God has predestined all things, taking into account our free choices. Meaning that if a man ends in Hell, he chose that path freely. He did not get forced there by divine decree, but the divine decree of Creation locked the man to the predestined end, which included his free choices to disobey and reject God.

To me, it seems that the teaching of the Church is that “prior” to creating existence, God foreknew all things He would do and all things that would happen. Thus, when conception became reality in the act of Creation, all things foreknew would come to pass without variance. Thus, while God does not condemn a man to Hell by ordination, that man is predestined to Hell, by his own free actions, which God knew would be the case and predestined by the Act of Creation.

Am I way off? In the ballpark?
 
Disclaimer I am not positive this is correct I am not saying this is perfect and it does not reflect my personal struggles but it is my understanding of how this works and it may be close to being right.

Just because you observe something doesn’t mean you have any hand in predestination. For an instance God exists outside of time so for him past present and future are all now. We have the individual choices to do what we want and choose God or disbelief with our lives. It’s not set in stone until you die for us because we are tied inside of time. God merely observes our decisions in the past present and future. This also shows why prayer changes us not God. He constantly provides graces to make the right move and even though he is witnessing our whole path we still have choices to make and whether or not we use that grace to choose him. It’s a very tricky concept because nothing else seems to act this way but since we don’t know of anything else outside of time it’s tough to compare it. To simplify God observes us in every stage but we are still able to choose freely.
 
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Modern Catholic Dictionary:

PREDESTINATION. In the widest sense it is every eternal decision of God; in a narrower sense it is the supernatural final destination of rational creatures; and in the strictest sense it is God’s eternal decision to assume certain rational creatures into heavenly glory. Predestination implies an act of the divine intellect and of the divine will. The first is foreknowledge, the second is predestination.

According to its efficacy in time, predestination is distinguished as incomplete or complete depending on whether it is to grace only or also to glory. Complete predestination is the divine preparation of grace in the present life and of glory in the life to come.

This doctrine is proposed by the ordinary and universal teaching of the Church as a truth of revelation. The reality of predestination is clearly attested by St. Paul: “They are the ones he chose especially long ago and intended to become true images of the Son, so that his Son, might be the eldest of many brothers. He called those he intended for this; those he called he justified and with those he justified he shared his glory.” (Romans 8:29-30). All elements of complete predestination are given: the activity of God’s mind and will, and the principal stages of its realization in time.

The main difficulty in the doctrine of predestination is whether God’s eternal decision has been taken with or without consideration of human freedom. Catholic teaching holds that predestination by God does not deny the human free will. Numerous theories have been offered on how to reconcile the two, but all admit with St. Paul (Romans 11:33) that predestination is an unfathomable mystery. (Etym. Latin praedestinatio, a determining beforehand.)
 
Check out Thomism and Molinism. I’m a Thomist. The Church hasn’t ruled authoritatively on either but I think Thomism is more compatible with Scripture.
 
I like Fr. William Most’s explanation:
There are Three (3) Stages as it were, in God’s Planning:

First, He most earnestly wants all to be Saved, and went so far as Sending His only Son to a Horrid Death to make that Way-open.

Next, He looks Ahead, Hoping no one will throw-away His Grace Persistently enough to Rule-out Salvation. With great regrets He decrees to let those souls go on to ruin.

Finally, all who have not been dropped in this Second Stage are Positively Predestined to a Place in our Father’s House, even Holding in our Hands a Ticket, Grace. Grace makes us His Children - Children as such do have a Claim to be in their Father’s House. He gladly puts the Seal on that.

You can find it here, it’s not a long read but it is good: http://copiosa.org/providence/predestination.htm
 
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I think you have it. It’s very close to my understanding anyway.

I hope you can deal with your struggles. It would be great to have you home, and I think you will be an excellent asset to the Church.
 
Pray that God helps me see and I don’t continue being so absolutely blind to everything about his existence. I would love to do more for God including helping other atheists find the way but first I need to believe fully myself.
 
Saxum said:
Check out Thomism and Molinism. I’m a Thomist. The Church hasn’t ruled authoritatively on either but I think Thomism is more compatible with Scripture.
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I lean more towards Molinism as it explains better the mystery of reprobation. I cannot find a satisfactory Thomist counterpart that is not effectively equivalent to Calvinist double predestination.
 
porthos11 said:
I lean more towards Molinism as it explains better the mystery of reprobation. I cannot find a satisfactory Thomist counterpart that is not effectively equivalent to Calvinist double predestination.
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I’ve also struggled with this concept. I thought Molina’s teaching on middle knowledge explained it but it seemed unnecessarily complex. The only thing I know is that God reprobates people by a process of passing over them. In other words, God doesn’t desire reprobation but allows it. It’s a difficult issue for me to understand.
 
Saxum said:
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porthos11:
I lean more towards Molinism as it explains better the mystery of reprobation. I cannot find a satisfactory Thomist counterpart that is not effectively equivalent to Calvinist double predestination.
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I’ve also struggled with this concept. I thought Molina’s teaching on middle knowledge explained it but it seemed unnecessarily complex. The only thing I know is that God reprobates people by a process of passing over them. In other words, God doesn’t desire reprobation but allows it. It’s a difficult issue for me to understand.
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God bless you Saxum and Porthos11 and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a DE FIDE Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect.
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Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.
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(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience.

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THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.
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Continue
 
Continuation
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CONTINUATION OF THE CATHOLIC DOGMA Predestination of the elect.
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Quote: Considering that not all men reach their supernatural end in heaven, but that many are eternally lost, there MUST EXIST a twofold predestination:

(a) one to heaven.

(b) one to the pains of hell.

However, according to present usages to which we shall adhere in the course of the article, it is better to call the latter decree the Divine “reprobation,” so that the term predestination is reserved for the Divine decree of the happiness of the elect.
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The COUNTERPART of the predestination of the good is the decree the Divine "reprobation."
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The conceptual difference between the two kinds of reprobation lies in this:
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The Catholic reprobation is NEGATIVE REPROBATION.

Merely implies the absolute will not to grant the bliss of heaven, though not positively predestined to hell, yet they are absolutely predestined not to go to heaven (cf. above, I, B).
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The Calvinistic reprobation is POSITIVE REPROBATION.

Calvinistic reprobation means the absolute will to condemn to hell. End quote.
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Continue
 
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Continuation
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THE MAJORITY OF CATHOLIC THEOLOGIANS STRONGLY CONTESTING THAT APART FROM the chosen ones who are absolutely predestined to heaven, the rest of the human race absolutely predestined not to go to heaven.
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CONTINUATION OF THE CATHOLIC DOGMA Predestination of the elect.
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Quote: Whatever view one may take regarding the reprobation, it cannot be harmonized with the dogmatically certain universality and sincerity of God’s salvific will.
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For the absolute predestination of the blessed is at the same time the absolute will of God “not to elect” a priori the rest of mankind (Suarez), or which comes to the same, “to exclude them from heaven” (Gonet), in other words, not to save them.
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How can that will to save be called serious and sincere which has decreed from all eternity the metaphysical impossibility of salvation?
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He who has been reprobated negatively, may exhaust all his efforts to attain salvation: it avail’s him nothing.
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Moreover, in order to realize infallibly his decree, God is compelled to frustrate the eternal welfare of all excluded a priori from heaven, and to take care that they die in their sins.
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Is this the language in which Holy Writ speaks to us?
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No; there we meet an anxious, loving father, who wills not “that any should perish, but that all should return to penance” (2 Peter 3:9).
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Lessius rightly says that it would be indifferent to him whether he was numbered among those reprobated positively or negatively; for, in either case, his eternal damnation would be certain.
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The reason for this is that in the present economy exclusion from heaven means for adults practically the same thing as damnation.
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A middle state, a merely natural happiness, does not exist. End quote.


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God bless you Saxum and Porthos and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin
 
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God bless you Roadrunner and God bless every readers of the CAF.

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A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of “the gift of perseverance of which it is written:
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‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’ Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4].”
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Aquinas said it always saves a person because of the kind of grace it is;
The gift of final perseverance always works.
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Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “The Gift of Final Perseverance.”
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The Church formally teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance.
[43] Aquinas (and even Molina) said this grace always ensures that a person will persevere.
[44] Aquinas said, “Predestination [to final salvation] most certainly and infallibly takes effect.”
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In order to have this perseverance man…needs the divine assistance guiding and guarding him against the attacks of the passions…” End quote
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At baptism every child,CALLED TO ETERNAL LIFE is a recipient of God’s free gift of Salvation/Everlasting Life and His special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance, which is an Eternal Protection of the Salvation/Everlasting Life of every child of God.
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Without God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance every Child/ CALLED TO ETERNAL LIFE would end up in hell.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence also teaches.
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Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24). End quote.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm

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God bless you Roadrunner and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin
 
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JudeThaddeus1 said:
To me, God has predestined all things, taking into account our free choices. Meaning that if a man ends in Hell, he chose that path freely. He did not get forced there by divine decree, but the divine decree of Creation locked the man to the predestined end, which included his free choices to disobey and reject God.
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That God can predict all things is not the same as predestined.

Perhaps you can predict what your spouse or children might do given a situation with complete accuracy. You still haven’t locked them into their action. They still have free will, you may even predict when respond differently than normal.
 
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Theo520 said:
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JudeThaddeus1:
To me, God has predestined all things, taking into account our free choices. Meaning that if a man ends in Hell, he chose that path freely. He did not get forced there by divine decree, but the divine decree of Creation locked the man to the predestined end, which included his free choices to disobey and reject God.
Click to expand...
That God can predict all things is not the same as predestined.

Perhaps you can predict what your spouse or children might do given a situation with complete accuracy. You still haven’t locked them into their action. They still have free will, you may even predict when respond differently than normal.
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Correct.

But predestination IS a teaching of the Church. God does not merely foreknow, he also preordains; there is an active resolve of his will in electing people.

HOW this happens, the Church has not defined, but it DOES happen. In Catholic teaching, God’s eternal resolve, the action of grace AND the free will of man are all part of the mystery of predestination.

Catholics often make the error that predestination=foreknowledge when in fact foreknowledge is only one part of the mystery.
 
But are some of us damned by default? Can we be so called marked for hell and no matter what we do we will end up there?
 
porthos11 said:
predestination
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“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: “In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.” – CCC, 600
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God knows your decisions but he does not force you to make them.
The Church rejects double predestination, that God chooses who will be saved and who will not.
 
Can God choose to not save anyone? Wouldn’t that mean they are damned from the start? What if God chose me to be unsaveable?
 
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