Catholic (universal) church?

[Elvenwarrior]

Hello there,

I’ve been having discussions with a Protestant friend of mine and somehow the four marks of the Church came up. The one I’m mostly concerned with at this moment is the “catholic” or “universal” aspect of the Church.

Many Protestants will agree that the Christian Church is indeed “universal” in its scope (“Go preach to all nations”), and that they’re universally joined on a spiritual level, which I believe are both true from a Catholic theology stand point.

I was however under the impression that the “universal” also referred to a church which is visibly universal. I’d like resources on this scripturally and through Father’s of the Church. Bear in mind I’m talking to a Protestant, so anything not in the first couple centuries of the early church fathers probably won’t bear much weight.

I’d also appreciate any resources on the general understanding of the Catholic Church as being “universal” with as many specifics in all areas a possible.

The main idea is that the Catholic Church is demonstrated as the Church of Christ by it’s marks. First I have to be able to show clearly that Christ meant it to have these marks and what He clearly meant by them, and then I want to be able to demonstrate how the Catholic Church alone has them.

I realize this is a broad topic but I’m really looking for some resources on it, so I’d appreciate reference to source covering at least parts of this, preferably in detail.

 

[nuntym]

To start with, how about these CA Faith Tracts?

What “Catholic” Means

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

 

[arcee]

“Catholic, as used in the Nicene Creed, means “universal” of “all-embracing”. Jesus Christ intended his church to embrace all people, as he demonstrated in his own ministry to Greeks and Jews, rich and poor,woman or man, free person and slave alike. The early Christians shared this understanding that there were no limitations on who could enter the church”.
page 89 Basics of the Faith: A Catholic Catechism by Alan Schreck

 

[JeanneH]

“Catholic, as used in the Nicene Creed, means “universal” of “all-embracing”. Jesus Christ intended his church to embrace all people, as he demonstrated in his own ministry to Greeks and Jews, rich and poor,woman or man, free person and slave alike. The early Christians shared this understanding that there were no limitations on who could enter the church”.
page 89 Basics of the Faith: A Catholic Catechism by Alan Schreck

To add to the above statement this from the Compact History of the Catholic Church by Schreck
page 10

“As Christianity spread through the Roman Empire and beyond in the second and third centuries after Christ, certain small groups began to disagree with the beliefs of the way of life of this universal Church. These groups- the Montanists, Gnostics, Novationists and others-considered themselves the true church of Jesus Christ because they thought they alone faithfully preserved the true Christian teaching and way of life. In order to distinguish it form these small groups, the term “Catholic Church” began to be applied to the large universal Church from which the smaller groups divided. So Catholic was used as a formal name for this great universal body of Christian spread throughout the known world, which also claimed to posses the fullness of Christian truth.”

Jeanne

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hello there,

I’ve been having discussions with a Protestant friend of mine and somehow the four marks of the Church came up. The one I’m mostly concerned with at this moment is the “catholic” or “universal” aspect of the Church.

Many Protestants will agree that the Christian Church is indeed “universal” in its scope (“Go preach to all nations”), and that they’re universally joined on a spiritual level, which I believe are both true from a Catholic theology stand point.

I was however under the impression that the “universal” also referred to a church which is visibly universal. I’d like resources on this scripturally and through Father’s of the Church. Bear in mind I’m talking to a Protestant, so anything not in the first couple centuries of the early church fathers probably won’t bear much weight.

I’d also appreciate any resources on the general understanding of the Catholic Church as being “universal” with as many specifics in all areas a possible.

The main idea is that the Catholic Church is demonstrated as the Church of Christ by it’s marks. First I have to be able to show clearly that Christ meant it to have these marks and what He clearly meant by them, and then I want to be able to demonstrate how the Catholic Church alone has them.

I realize this is a broad topic but I’m really looking for some resources on it, so I’d appreciate reference to source covering at least parts of this, preferably in detail.

To my mind, this is just a Protestant attempt to claim A) some connection to the Apostles which is historically lacking and B) some measure of gravitas.

See if this article helps:

What Does Catholic Mean?
By Steve Ray
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501fea4.asp

 

[Randy_Carson]

Bear in mind I’m talking to a Protestant, so anything not in the first couple centuries of the early church fathers probably won’t bear much weight.

Gee, I thought Protestants deny that the Catholic Church even existed until Constantine’s conversion around 325 AD. Thus, the earliest Christians were members of the “pure” Church which existed prior to the influx of Roman paganism.

Your friend won’t accept the pre-Constantian witness, either?

Which is it?