Catholic view of Book of Leviticus

[BV_in_CA]

Hi all,

I was just reading an article linked on digg.com about a rape of a 16 year in Bangladesh and she is getting lashed because she had a baby from the rape.

I was reading the comments and people are talking negatively about islam and then someone posted from Leviticus chapter 20, apparantly to say that Christians and Jews are just as bad.

I went to the NAB online and read it to confirm the posting and it basically says you will be sentenced to death for alot of thing (adultry, homosexual behaviour…).

My question is how do Catholics interpret Leviticus Chapter 20? I can see an extremist christian or jew taking it too far just like muslims. What has stopped christians and jews from going to far?

I would really appreciate replys as I am in RCIA right now and I am trying to understand the bible more.

Thank you,

P.S. I searched the forum for Leviticus and didn’t find a discussion on this yet (ok,ok, I only looked at the first to pages or results)

 

[juliamajor]

Hi all,

I was just reading an article linked on digg.com about a rape of a 16 year in Bangladesh and she is getting lashed because she had a baby from the rape.

I was reading the comments and people are talking negatively about islam and then someone posted from Leviticus chapter 20, apparantly to say that Christians and Jews are just as bad.

I went to the NAB online and read it to confirm the posting and it basically says you will be sentenced to death for alot of thing (adultry, homosexual behaviour…).

My question is how do Catholics interpret Leviticus Chapter 20? I can see an extremist christian or jew taking it too far just like muslims. What has stopped christians and jews from going to far?

I would really appreciate replys as I am in RCIA right now and I am trying to understand the bible more.

Thank you,

P.S. I searched the forum for Leviticus and didn’t find a discussion on this yet (ok,ok, I only looked at the first to pages or results)

What is stated is one thing .How the laws were applied is another. In rabbinic thinking if more then a couple of people are being sentenced to death in a year then the law is being applied excessively.What has stopped Christians and Jews ? well Jesus for Christians and the sages for the Jews.They figured out early that excessive violence and punishment breeds nothing but more trouble -not less. Ancient Romans had some draconian Laws about the Paterfamilias and his family and the power of life and death over them. as far as I know it was applied very seldom or never.But it sounds really terrible on paper- but the reality was very very different.

 

[Crumpy]

At first blush, it may sound like an out-and-out cop-out. And, that would be, to insist that one look for the purpose of the laws.

But, there are many reasons for looking for just that purpose of the law.

Why did God give any laws? Well, trivially stated, it is because having a relationship with God, i.e. being in a covenant with God, puts demands on people. The President of the United States is “sworn in” by pledging a certain code of conduct in exchange for the privilege of that position. Marriage is a covenant (not a contract) and there is a pledge of fidelity in exchange for the exclusiveness and intimacy of the relationship. So, that establishes a “floor” of understanding of why God wants a commitment, e.g. gives a law about membership in the “chosen people.”

Another aspect of biblical laws is that they may be seen to be vary narrow, if taken in a literalist way, but very broad if you take them in the “spirit” or the intent of the law.

complexity is another problem about the laws. There may be these laws which say that such and such people should be put to death, but then there is the command in the Decalogue (Ten Words, or commandments) that says we are not to commit murder.

(yet another problem is for degrees of guilt or what we might call mitigating circumstances – to see if the law really applies, and, then, how it might apply; and then, overall, there might be problems that were not covered in the law entirely, and so they had to figure out how and why these should apply.)

And, for a sincere person, Jewish or Christian, this is not splitting hairs.

Now, I’m going to go a little vague on you here, because I may have this a little mixed up. But,there were these “cities of refuge” where wanted criminals could live in safety from the imposition of the sentences of the laws. And, so there were provisions for exclusions or exceptions from the “eye for an eye” mentality.

So often the mercy of God overshadows any literalist understanding of the law.

Hope this helps.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi all,

I was just reading an article linked on digg.com about a rape of a 16 year in Bangladesh and she is getting lashed because she had a baby from the rape.

I was reading the comments and people are talking negatively about islam and then someone posted from Leviticus chapter 20, apparantly to say that Christians and Jews are just as bad.

I went to the NAB online and read it to confirm the posting and it basically says you will be sentenced to death for alot of thing (adultry, homosexual behaviour…).

My question is how do Catholics interpret Leviticus Chapter 20? I can see an extremist christian or jew taking it too far just like muslims. What has stopped christians and jews from going to far?

I would really appreciate replys as I am in RCIA right now and I am trying to understand the bible more.

Thank you,

P.S. I searched the forum for Leviticus and didn’t find a discussion on this yet (ok,ok, I only looked at the first to pages or results)

Don’t let them kid you. Christians are not Jews and vice-versa. In the nutshell the old laws do not apply to Christians, the reason being Jesus. The old laws are laws of the Old Covenant and Christians are people of the New Covenant; the laws being written in their hearts. In other word, the physical does not apply because now it is the internal – the heart that matters.

There is no law such as whipping or stoning in Christianity. If a person sins, it is between him and God. And God be the judge for him.

The books of the Old Testaments remind us of God’s action with mankind through the ages. They are being fulfilled in the New Testaments.

There is no basis for Christians from ‘going too far’. I guess you mean Christians taking the OT laws literally. We are not to do that.

God bless.

 

[BV_in_CA]

Thank you for your responses. My thinking was kind of like Reuben J’s: That we are a people of Jesus and we follow his teachings above all. So some of the Old Testament teachings are overriden. Like Baptism overriding Circumcision.

Thanks again.

 

[Crumpy]

Don’t let them kid you. Christians are not Jews and vice-versa. In the nutshell the old laws do not apply to Christians, the reason being Jesus. The old laws are laws of the Old Covenant and Christians are people of the New Covenant; the laws being written in their hearts. In other word, the physical does not apply because now it is the internal – the heart that matters.

There is no law such as whipping or stoning in Christianity. If a person sins, it is between him and God. And God be the judge for him.

The books of the Old Testaments remind us of God’s action with mankind through the ages. They are being fulfilled in the New Testaments.

There is no basis for Christians from ‘going too far’. I guess you mean Christians taking the OT laws literally. We are not to do that.

God bless.

The OT is still in the Bible, and our Pope says that the NT wouldn’t make sense without the OT.

Certainly the ceremonial laws do not apply, neither the cultic laws like circumcision.

Catholics have gone too far in the past, like the Inquisition. Other Christians have also.

We learn from our mistakes 1) as we should and 2) we move on from there to try to build up the body of Christ on earth. It is a prayerful and devout study of our faith and good leadership under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that allows God’s mercy to work in us, in so many ways.

What keeps us from going too far? To study our faith and to live it each day.

 

[aussie_jaz]

i find this a very interesting topic because here i see that as christians the laws of leveticus do not apply but all to often certain cherry picked laws are brought out as the christian way while completely ignoring the hundreds of others. so which is it ?

 

[Reuben_J]

i find this a very interesting topic because here i see that as christians the laws of leveticus do not apply but all to often certain cherry picked laws are brought out as the christian way while completely ignoring the hundreds of others. so which is it ?

What did Jesus say or Paul when explaining the Gospels?

As for circumcision – it is not what you do to your skin but what’s in your heart that makes you right with God. Circumcise your heart and that’s pleasing to God.

As for stoning of adulterers. Cast the stone if you have never been guilty of the said offence otherwise let the offender be. Neither can we judge if we are not above judgment ourselves.

We are not cherry-picking the old laws of the OT. Jesus was clear that as far as the laws are concerned the greatest Commandment is the most important. Any other laws that lead to it should be followed but more important is the spirit of the Commandments. While the Ten Commandments can be interpreted strictly according to its language Jesus wants us to really recognize its spirit. He elaborated on that. Example, it is not just prohibition on adultery but it is also a sin to look with lust.

Because of the new Commandment, a lot of the old laws become obsolete.

BTW, what does your church teach you about the laws of the OT?

God bless.

 

[aussie_jaz]

What did Jesus say or Paul when explaining the Gospels?

As for circumcision – it is not what you do to your skin but what’s in your heart that makes you right with God. Circumcise your heart and that’s pleasing to God.

As for stoning of adulterers. Cast the stone if you have never been guilty of the said offence otherwise let the offender be. Neither can we judge if we are not above judgment ourselves.

We are not cherry-picking the old laws of the OT. Jesus was clear that as far as the laws are concerned the greatest Commandment is the most important. Any other laws that lead to it should be followed but more important is the spirit of the Commandments. While the Ten Commandments can be interpreted strictly according to its language Jesus wants us to really recognize its spirit. He elaborated on that. Example, it is not just prohibition on adultery but it is also a sin to look with lust.

Because of the new Commandment, a lot of the old laws become obsolete.

BTW, what does your church teach you about the laws of the OT?

God bless.

all to often christians (catholics very much included) rush in to quote levitical laws to make other people feel bad about what they do while themselves do not abide by other laws. unless to be a hypocrite one shouldnt be using these laws on others unless they obey them ALL themselves.

to answer your question i dont have a particular church and hence i am a non denominational christian so obviously my church doesnt teach me. i decide in my heart after reading the NT and by gathering information from peoples i trust and from reading different views on places such as CAF.i do read the OT at times though mainly for understanding references from the NT.
my understanding is these laws are not required for christians but are there for the jewish. if you see my understanding is not right then please share why

 

[Reuben_J]

all to often christians (catholics very much included) rush in to quote levitical laws to make other people feel bad about what they do while themselves do not abide by other laws. unless to be a hypocrite one shouldnt be using these laws on others unless they obey them ALL themselves.

I don’t know that Christians behave like that but even if there are, it is not the norm for Christian behavior. The issue is definitely irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

to answer your question i dont have a particular church and hence i am a non denominational christian so obviously my church doesnt teach me. i decide in my heart after reading the NT and by gathering information from peoples i trust and from reading different views on places such as CAF.i do read the OT at times though mainly for understanding references from the NT

.

From our understanding, that is your church – non-denominational. Please don’t be offended. I understand what you mean but that’s how we see it.

my understanding is these laws are not required for christians but are there for the jewish. if you see my understanding is not right then please share why

I thought this is exactly my view in my former post; or is it in the other thread?

 

[patg]

i find this a very interesting topic because here i see that as christians the laws of leveticus do not apply but all to often certain cherry picked laws are brought out as the christian way while completely ignoring the hundreds of others. so which is it ?

What you are saying implies one of two things:

1. That someone was freely inserting laws and punishments into God’s mouth for things they didn’t like and didn’t exactly speak for God.

or

1. That God tried out some rules on a new experiment (humans) and found that many of the prohibitions weren’t such abominations after all. Jesus then came along to simpllify this obvious illogical mess with some pretty simple rules (love God, love your neighbor). Unfortunately, many are still trying to sort it all out and, as humans are naturally inclined to do, make up new (and in many cases) just as illogical rules to recomplicate it all.

Since the Church is so adamant that nothing related to morality ever can change, it has to re-lable God’s direct prohibitions and call them “Jewish Purity Rules” or some similar lable.

 

[COPLAND_3]

The moral laws of the OT still applies, but the ceremonial part does not. Leviticus is explained very well by St. Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologica, though he is not easy reading. Here is a link where I have linked all his citations of Leviticus, just scroll to te bottom of the page. Also the citations from the Early Church Fathers are all linked as well litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Leviticus+Patristic+Citations

 

[juliamajor]

You have the Noachide Laws that are meant for all mankind that parallel the Ten Words.In Leviticus you are dealing with cultic laws and the Holiness Code which does not apply to any goyim.Ever.

 

[Pug]

In Leviticus you are dealing with cultic laws and the Holiness Code which does not apply to any goyim.Ever.

Could you clarify? Loosely, I would have called the “stranger who sojourns” among Israel to be a non-Jew (the meaning of goy that I think you are using). And Lev 18 applies to such a one in some manner.
RSV Leviticus 18:26 But you shall keep my statutes and my ordinances and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you