Catholic view of Heb 4:16

[oneseeker]

“We may approach the throne of God with boldness…” without the use of intercessory prayer? I know that the intercession of the saints is not a bad thing, but is it a necessary thing? Since you can go straight to God, I mean. I’m really trying to figure this all out, but VERY protestant hubby always says that he just goes to God, and may ask a friend to pray for him to have strength in a bad situation, but not expect that person to do anything for him. What is done for him comes only from God.

Did I ramble too much? I hope not.

Thanks,
oneseeker

 

[mikew262]

“We may approach the throne of God with boldness…” without the use of intercessory prayer? I know that the intercession of the saints is not a bad thing, but is it a necessary thing? Since you can go straight to God, I mean. I’m really trying to figure this all out, but VERY protestant hubby always says that he just goes to God, and may ask a friend to pray for him to have strength in a bad situation, but not expect that person to do anything for him. What is done for him comes only from God.

Did I ramble too much? I hope not.

Thanks,
oneseeker

No, going through the saints is not a necessary thing, but networking never hurts, as my wife always says.

 

[Della]

Some of the reasons we go through the saints are:

1. They are in heaven and so their prayers cannot be tainted with self-interest or sin, while we who are still living out our lives on earth cannot say that.
2. The saints in heaven are perfectly in line with the will of God in all things, how many of us can say the same thing?
3. Each of the saints experienced the same difficulties we all do, so they can relate, as brothers and sisters in Christ with the problems we are still experiencing.
4. The saints in heaven were people of prayer on earth–the kind of people we would go to if we needed a friend to pray for us, so why not take advantage of their prayers now that they are in heaven and can do even more for us?

What your husband doesn’t understand is that the Body of Christ isn’t separated by death. Jesus’ call that we all be one doesn’t dissolve when one of us dies. Indeed, those in heaven are all the more able to help us with their prayers than our brothers and sisters still on earth.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi oneseeker, ( protestant here ), Romans 8 teaches that both the Holy Spirit and Jesus himself are praying for us ( Hebrews 4, 7 ). Ask your protestant friends why pray since both jesus and the holy spirit are praying for us?

Simple, prayer changes the one praying, and serves to connect one with Jesus. The prayers of them in heaven recoreded in Rev 6 are not very mature, so I think it is possible that those in heaven are still growing in Christ.

Rev 6:9-11

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and **avenge our blood?” **Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

As a protestant I do not believe those in heaven can hear us, but even I have to admit the possiblity of one’s guardian angel can make side trips when they visit heaven on a daily basis.

 

[thistle]

“We may approach the throne of God with boldness…” without the use of intercessory prayer? I know that the intercession of the saints is not a bad thing, but is it a necessary thing? Since you can go straight to God, I mean. I’m really trying to figure this all out, but VERY protestant hubby always says that he just goes to God, and may ask a friend to pray for him to have strength in a bad situation, but not expect that person to do anything for him. What is done for him comes only from God.

Did I ramble too much? I hope not.

Thanks,
oneseeker

Haydock commentary (on this verse) in the D-R Bible:

Let us often contemplate Jesus Christ on his two thrones, that of his mercy and that of his justice; of his mercy, where at present he is seated as our compassionate high priest, to bestow on us the riches of his grace; of his justice, where he will one day sit as judge, to examine most rigorously both our faith and our practice. Our separated brethern pretend to prove from this text that we need no help of saints to obtain favour. But by this argument they may as well take away the helps and prayers of the living for one another. For we do not require the help of either the saints in heaven, or of our brethern on earth, through any mistrust of God’s mercy, but on account of our own unworthiness, convinced that the prayer of a just man availeth more with Him, than the desire of a grievous sinner; and of a number making intercession together, rather than of one alone. This they cannot deny, except they deny the Holy Scriptures. Neither do we come less to Him, or with less confidence, when we come accompanied with the prayers of Angels, saints, priests orjust men, with us, as they fondly imgaine and pretend; but with much more confidence in his grace, mercy, and merits, than if we prayed ouselves alone.

 

[carol_marie]

"VERY protestant hubby always says that he just goes to God, and may ask a friend to pray for him to have strength in a bad situation, but not expect that person to do anything for him. What is done for him comes only from God.

Did I ramble too much? I hope not.

Thanks,
oneseeker

I would agree with your husband that all help comes from God. But just like he might ask his friend to pray for him, I might ask a Saint to pray for me - with the understanding that whatever happens is because of God alone.

and no, you didn’t ramble too much!

 

[Tom]

I know that the intercession of the saints is not a bad thing, but is it a necessary thing? Since you can go straight to God, I mean. I’m really trying to figure this all out, but VERY protestant hubby always says that he just goes to God, and may ask a friend to pray for him to have strength in a bad situation, but not expect that person to do anything for him. What is done for him comes only from God.

Does intercessory prayer do any good? Well, if it doesn’t then the Bible is wrong, since it does say “Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much”. Pray for one another? Why would we do that, if intercessory prayer didn’t do any good? Why would Scripture say it is a good thing if it doesn’t make any difference?
www.drbo.org:

James Chapter 5:14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

Why would you bring in the Church Priest and have the priest pray over him?
www.drbo.org:

James Chapter 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Sure sounds like the prayers of other people can help to have YOUR sins forgiven doesn’t it?
www.drbo.org:

James Chapter 5:16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

www.drbo.org:

2 Machabees 12:44 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, 44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. 46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

Yes intercessory prayer does do good, Scripture tells us to pray for one another, and the typical response is those dead can’t help, but saints are not dead to God, they are more alive in God than you or I are.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Let’s not forget that the Bible also tells us that the prayers of the righteous man avails much.(Jas 5:16). Romans 3:10 says “none is righteous, no, not one.” So, who is righteous before God? Those who are already in heaven with Him! The saints are in a place where “nothing unclean shall enter” (Rev 21:27), so we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that saints are righteous. So, I feel their prayers are more effective than ours simply because of their righteousness. Does that mean we are not to pray directly to Jesus? No, of course not. That is what Heb 4:16 is all about. But honestly, if His mother or another Saint were to ask Him something and I was to ask Him something, who is He more likely to answer? Your hubby is right that it is God who answers prayers, but He can and certainly does allow angels and saints to intercede with Him on our behalf.

Here are some more verses about angels, saints and intercessory prayer that I found on this thread.

The Bible Angels & Saints
Angels and Saints See and Hear us
1 Cor 4:9
We are made spectacle to world, to angels
Luk 20:36
For they shall be equal unto angels
Mat 22:30,
Saints in heaven shall be like Angelic Spirits
Luke 15:10
There will be joy among the angels of God over one sinner who repents

Angels to Guard and Protect Us
Mat 18:10 (guardian)
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Gen 48:16 (guardian)
Jacob refers to the angel who protected him from evil
Acts 12:15
….They said, “It was his Angel”
Judith 13:20 (guardian)
The office of the angels is to keep us
guardian angels also see
Psalm 91:11 ,Exodus 23:20, Acts 12:11, Heb 1:14, Acts 5:19,Acts 12:5,7,8, Ps 34:7-8,
Gen 24:7

People Pray to Angels for Favor or Blessings
Gen 48:16
Jacob prays for a blessing from an angel of God
See also
Ps. 148:1-2, Deut 32:43, Ps 103:20

Angels and Saints Pray for Us and Intercede for Us
Zech 1:12
angel intercedes for Jerusalem
2Pet 1:15
I will endeavor that even after my death you may often have occasion to call these things to mind
See also
Mat 18:10, Rev 8:5, Rev 5:8,

When I “address” a prayer to Mary, or another Saint, I am, by no means, under the impression that the prayer stops with them. They simply hand my prayer to God through their righteous hands. How awesome is that?!

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

“We may approach the throne of God with boldness…” without the use of intercessory prayer? I know that the intercession of the saints is not a bad thing, but is it a necessary thing? Since you can go straight to God, I mean. I’m really trying to figure this all out, but VERY protestant hubby always says that he just goes to God, and may ask a friend to pray for him to have strength in a bad situation, but not expect that person to do anything for him. What is done for him comes only from God.

Did I ramble too much? I hope not.

Thanks,
oneseeker

Not only do we have front door access, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are praying for us too. Romans 8

 

[Mommyof02green]

As a protestant I do not believe those in heaven can hear us, but even I have to admit the possiblity of one’s guardian angel can make side trips when they visit heaven on a daily basis.

If they can’t “hear” us then how do they know what we need prayers for?

From your post I get that you believe that it’s possible that those in heaven can offer intercessory prayers for us…

So if that is possible how do they know what we need prayers for if they can’t “hear” us?

I mean turn on your T.V. and hit your mute button.
Do you really know what is going on? How much are you missing because you can’t “hear” what is being said?

 

[cyberjacques]

I think in order to understand this passage it is important to read it in context with the preceeding sentence. Here is Heb 4:15-16 as translated in the NIV:
“For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.”

I think the point the author was trying to convey is that we can be confident in the saving power of Christ, not that we don’t need as much help as we can get.