Catholic view of sex

[aball1035]

Is the traditional teaching that sex is composed of 1. procreation and 2. unity of husband and wife? Is there any more?

Therefore both sex before marriage and contraception each take away one of the 2 components.

Sex before marriage takes away from the unity of husband and wife and contraception takes away from procreation.

Is my thinking right?

 

[Ed_Montgomery]

Is the traditional teaching that sex is composed of 1. procreation and 2. unity of husband and wife? Is there any more?

Therefore both sex before marriage and contraception each take away one of the 2 components.

Sex before marriage takes away from the unity of husband and wife and contraception takes away from procreation.

Is my thinking right?

Dear aball1035,
I have seen this thread has been viewed a few times and no one has replied so I will try my best to help you. In my own teaching I learned that Marriage was the unity of a husband and wife. Procreation - or having a child - is the lifestyle you are supposed to live(parenting). (I.E. A man becomes a priest, and is united with Christ, and his lifestyle is to serve his parish and all other requirements.)
Now, talking in terms of sex; If you have sex before marriage it never “takes away” anything. In my eyes, God always forgives, confession is what I’m talking about, so anything can be healed. God has asked that you save yourself for the man or woman who you will with for the rest of your life. Having a baby before marriage also never takes away anything from unity, but it can cause a burden on your own personal life. Thank God the people that do have babies before marriage don’t abort their precious children. I hoped I helped somewhat, and if I’m totally off the ball feel free anyone to correct me
God Bless,
Ed

 

[BiologyBrain]

Is the traditional teaching that sex is composed of 1. procreation and 2. unity of husband and wife? Is there any more?

Therefore both sex before marriage and contraception each take away one of the 2 components.

Sex before marriage takes away from the unity of husband and wife and contraception takes away from procreation.

Is my thinking right?

You are right that the purpose of sex is two-fold for Catholics. Neither aspect can be separated from the act and have it be moral. You are also right that premarital sex and contraception attempt to separate the two-fold purposes from sex - therefore they are immoral.

Technically (as I think Ed was trying to explain), even premarital (or extramarital) sex doesn’t necessarily ‘take away’ anything from the sex itself. Instead it spiritually wounds you (sin) and requires you to seek forgiveness from God. It also falsely joins you with your sexual partner. Although, technically you are still physically joined, the spiritual joining that is supposed to take place within the sacrament of marriage is not present. In other words, the sacrament of marriage opens the door to fufilling our spiritual sexual hunger, while premarital sex knocks at the door and then breaks in a window.

Also, contraceptive sex does remove the procreative aspect from the sexual union. It also falsifies the unitive aspect of sex by not having the partners give of themselves entirely. Contraception basically says “I love you, but not your fertility.” That is not using either of the aspects of sex properly.

The unititive and procreative aspects of sex are more than the clear-cut obvious examples. Even a sterile couple (whether by age or design) can fufill both aspects easily with the right intentions. The key to the unitive aspect (IMO) is to completely accept one another with no reservations or exceptions. The key to the procreative aspect (IMO) is to do nothing that counter-acts how the marital embrace should occur. In both aspects, an important realization is the even though sex is between a man & woman - God is present as well. If there is anything that could potentially ‘block’ God from the union, the purpose of sex loses its true meaning. In other words, the man and/or woman should not ‘play God’ with their bodies during the marital embrace.

Hope that helps!

 

[aball1035]

The part that I find depressing is that the majority of Catholics use contraception. How many large Catholic families are there today compared to just 100 years ago? Very few. Coincidence? Maybe, but I wouldn’t count on it…

I don’t know whether Catholics don’t know contraception’s a mortal sin, or don’t care.

 

[BiologyBrain]

The part that I find depressing is that the majority of Catholics use contraception. How many large Catholic families are there today compared to just 100 years ago? Very few. Coincidence? Maybe, but I wouldn’t count on it…

I don’t know whether Catholics don’t know contraception’s a mortal sin, or don’t care.

It is disheartening to hear of so many Catholic couples using contraception. I think there has been a breakdown of instruction after Vatican II and the sexual revolution that has tainted the Church members. Many couples are willfully ignorant of the Church’s stance on contraception. Many priests, religious, and lay singles are also willfully ignorant and/or dissident of the Church’s stance on contraception. Its something we all need to pray about…

However, the bright side is that the NFP movement and the pro-life movement (not to mention JPII and Benedict XVI) have educated many. Many new priests, religious, and lay singles are speaking out against contraception. Many new couples are embracing NFP not only b/c it is natural, but also b/c it is moral. These warriors need our prayers as well!

 

[budgie2]

Is the traditional teaching that sex is composed of 1. procreation and 2. unity of husband and wife? Is there any more?

Therefore both sex before marriage and contraception each take away one of the 2 components.

Sex before marriage takes away from the unity of husband and wife and contraception takes away from procreation.

Is my thinking right?

I think sex before marriage can be unitive aswell as procreative although very often it is combined with contraception. However, if no contraception is used, the difference would be that it would not be a sacramental union and it would not be a lifelong union necessarily. The couple would not be bound together by God.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I think sex before marriage can be unitive aswell as procreative although very often it is combined with contraception. However, if no contraception is used, the difference would be that it would not be a sacramental union and it would not be a lifelong union necessarily. The couple would not be bound together by God.

The unititive aspect is harmed by not having the union blessed by God (ie within marriage) in pre-marital sex. While there may not be any physical barriers, the spiritual joining of marital relations is not possible b/c the graces aren’t there from the marriage. At least that’s my understanding. Even though my husband is a non-Christian/Catholic we were married in the Church. Technically our marriage didn’t receive all the graces as a Catholic-Catholic marriage would. However, we are still blessed with graces with regards to one another and the spiritual joining (as well as physical joining) that occurred at our wedding. The marital embrace is supposed to kind of be a ‘re-enactment’ and/or a re-affirmation of your wedding vows. If there are no wedding vows to re-enact or re-affirm, then the graces that bond husband & wife together though marriage & the marital embrace aren’t present either.

I don’t know if this analogy will stand scrutiny or not, but I look at it as I do my ATM card. I’m ‘married’ to my bank through my ATM card. I can use my ATM card at another bank (pre/extra-marital relations), but I (generally) pay for the priviledge (lack of graces). However, if I use my ATM card at my bank (marital relations) I get what I put into it and what I ask out of it (graces bestowed by marriage).

I think TOB refers to the lack found in pre-marital sex as opposed to marital relations. I think Christopher West explains it as well from a more simplistic viewpoint.

 

[aball1035]

are there any quotes from saints or early church fathers on this matter?

 

[myfamilymom]

So what takes priority? The unitive or procreative and how do you reconcile when there is a difference in point of view between a husband and wife? How do responsibly continue to have children when resouces (time, financial, sanity,etc!!) are stretched? We have 5 children. We are maxed out with regard to being able to care for them all. Our Priest agreed that it is very important to be able to meet all our children’s needs, with a span of 14 year it is hard to relate to a teenager and a toddler and the others in between. They are all important and I want to honor God by being able to meet all of their needs (not their wants) but I would like to enjoy them and our family in the process. My husband is d.o.n.e with having children, and as the original Catholic between us he has no problem saying this. I am unsure, but having delt with anxiety and depression I know how important it is to be fully present to my children. It is hard to be a good mom when you are depressed and so tired you don’t care about much. Even when a (good) Dr says my depression is mild and fatigue is normal…it effects my family. I can’t believe that God would continue to call me have more children when our conscience tells us we have been open to life, but can now look in a different direction. With premenopause and menopause I have another 15 years of uncertanity and I don’t know if I can handle it. I know my DH can’t, he has already said that. What do good Catholics do now? We have been open to life for 5 DC plus 3 MC.

 

[myfamilymom]

I just noticed this is an old thread. I am hoping someone will feel called to respond to me right away…this is my first post and my heart is filled with anguish.

 

[lizziebits]

myfamilymom –

I just read your post, and couldn’t not respond, although I am in a far different situation than you (we’re young, trying to conceive a 2nd for about 9 months now).

You sound like you have a beautiful family, and that you and your husband have just reason for, at the moment and perhaps forever, avoid more children. Have you tried NFP? If you have no had success for it, do you know why? I think I would find a good NFP instructor and use the system very conservatively to avoid more pregnancies, at least at the moment.

 

[Becks]

I’ll give this a shot. Hopefully someone will correct me where my answer falls short.

So what takes priority? The unitive or procreative and how do you reconcile when there is a difference in point of view between a husband and wife?

Neither takes priority. We should not ever do anything to remove either one from the act.

I fear that I may be in your shoes at some point as far as the difference in point of view between husband and wife. My wife is currently pregnant, so this issue won’t arise until about six months from now. I’m going to have a lot of talks with her, I’m already praying about the situation; however, my wife is VERY stubborn and I don’t know that I’ll be able to convince her that the Church is right on this one. If that day should come, I will stand firm in my convictions. I am only responsible for my own salvation, not my wife’s. I will refuse a vasectomy. I will refuse to use condoms. If she insists on using a form of artificial birth control that may be an abortificant, I will refuse sex altogether.

How do responsibly continue to have children when resouces (time, financial, sanity,etc!!) are stretched? We have 5 children. We are maxed out with regard to being able to care for them all. Our Priest agreed that it is very important to be able to meet all our children’s needs, with a span of 14 year it is hard to relate to a teenager and a toddler and the others in between. They are all important and I want to honor God by being able to meet all of their needs (not their wants) but I would like to enjoy them and our family in the process.

Your priest is very wise. On the Catholic Channel last night I heard someone say that we are not just called to be open to having children, we are called to be open to raising saints. Part of being open to having children is being able to devote time and attention to them in raising them. Reasons like yours may be a reason that you and your husband should use NFP to avoid getting pregnant right now. The Church allows that for serious reasons. Only you can decide if your reasons are serious or not.

My husband is d.o.n.e with having children, and as the original Catholic between us he has no problem saying this.

Just because he is the “original Catholic” (not sure what that means) doesn’t mean that he is the correct Catholic.

I am unsure, but having delt with anxiety and depression I know how important it is to be fully present to my children. It is hard to be a good mom when you are depressed and so tired you don’t care about much. Even when a (good) Dr says my depression is mild and fatigue is normal…it effects my family. I can’t believe that God would continue to call me have more children when our conscience tells us we have been open to life, but can now look in a different direction. With premenopause and menopause I have another 15 years of uncertanity and I don’t know if I can handle it. I know my DH can’t, he has already said that. What do good Catholics do now? We have been open to life for 5 DC plus 3 MC.

What do you do now? Pray. Pray with each other. The fact that you’ve been open to 5 children (God bless them) and 3 miscarriages (may they rest in peace) is wonderful, but it doesn’t mean you have the right to stop. We are always supposed to be open to life. Hope all this helps a little.

 

[Em_in_FL]

are there any quotes from saints or early church fathers on this matter?

If you study the Catechism you can find the reference notes at the bottom that pull from several different teachings of the faith - encyclicals, scripture, saints, etc…
Here is the section specifically on the marital union of sex… read through and research the references at the bottom - great stuff there!

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.shtml#2360

 

[nodito]

So what takes priority? The unitive or procreative and how do you reconcile when there is a difference in point of view between a husband and wife? How do responsibly continue to have children when resouces (time, financial, sanity,etc!!) are stretched? We have 5 children. We are maxed out with regard to being able to care for them all.

Sex must always be ordered towards procreation and unity, and, as a PP said, we may not do anything to separate these aspects. This does not mean that couples have to always be actively seeking or hoping for pregnancy. It does not mean that they cannot alter their behavior to space or prevent pregnancy. Couples who practice NFP and make use of the infertile periods are still open to life in that they did nothing to frustrate the procreative aspect of the sexual act.

Through NFP couples learn how to observe and chart biomarkers like cervical secretions and/or basal body temperature. When used correctly and consistently it is as effective at preventing pregnancy as the pill. But it does nothing to harm the dignity of the conjugal act because intercourse remains fully unitive and procreative.

God bless.

 

[aball1035]

Sex must always be ordered towards procreation and unity, and, as a PP said, we may not do anything to separate these aspects. This does not mean that couples have to always be actively seeking or hoping for pregnancy. It does not mean that they cannot alter their behavior to space or prevent pregnancy. Couples who practice NFP and make use of the infertile periods are still open to life in that they did nothing to frustrate the procreative aspect of the sexual act.

Through NFP couples learn how to observe and chart biomarkers like cervical secretions and/or basal body temperature. When used correctly and consistently it is as effective at preventing pregnancy as the pill. But it does nothing to harm the dignity of the conjugal act because intercourse remains fully unitive and procreative.

God bless.

have any people in the early church or popes had a say in NFP/something like NFP?

 

[nodito]

have any people in the early church or popes had a say in NFP/something like NFP?

I’m not sure what you mean. Do you mean have any popes ever written about NFP? Yes, Pope Paul VI wrote about it in Humanae Vitae and John Paul II wrote about it in Theology of the Body. But the Church Father didn’t know enough about the physiology of reproduction to be able to comment on it.

 

[danfinocchio]

I cannot urge you enough to check out John Paul II’s Theology of the Body. Its a study on the meaning of life and of our bodies. Visit christopherwest.com for learn about the Pope’s teaching on everything from contraception to pre marital sex to pornography to heaven, i could go on…heres a link explaining the basics

christopherwest.com/page.asp?ContentID=71

 

[HumblePilgrim]

The part that I find depressing is that the majority of Catholics use contraception. How many large Catholic families are there today compared to just 100 years ago? Very few. Coincidence? Maybe, but I wouldn’t count on it…

I don’t know whether Catholics don’t know contraception’s a mortal sin, or don’t care.

I beileve in the teachings of the Church and intellectually I believe in the wrong of birth control but I am newly married (2 years) and my husband and I barely make enough money to make ends meet. I take birth control and until one of us begins to make more money we cannot and will not have a child. This is a sin. But in my mind…this is just how it is. The cost of living in this country is just too high for many Americans to have large families. Our rent alone is over half our salary combined. I can tell you flat out that I am a coward pure and simple. I don’t want to deal with the misery of more financial stress than I already have and most of my stress comes from debt from school and healthcare. Go figure!

 

[MercyMia]

I beileve in the teachings of the Church and intellectually I believe in the wrong of birth control but I am newly married (2 years) and my husband and I barely make enough money to make ends meet. I take birth control and until one of us begins to make more money we cannot and will not have a child. This is a sin. But in my mind…this is just how it is. The cost of living in this country is just too high for many Americans to have large families. Our rent alone is over half our salary combined. I can tell you flat out that I am a coward pure and simple. I don’t want to deal with the misery of more financial stress than I already have and most of my stress comes from debt from school and healthcare. Go figure!

Jane, wow I really love your blunt honesty. I am not being sarcastic. So many people, because they do not want to live up to the Church teaching, dimiss it or rationlize it away. Yet, you are being 100% honest that you know it is true, but that it is too hard for you to follow right now. I want you to know that God will meet you where you are. Without doing anything else, without even ceasing to use birth control, start praying about it. Just start asking God to change your heart and to remove the obstacles that stand between you and living out God’s plan for your marriage. Take it slow, little by little, you may start hearing the wisdom of the Holy Spirit mixed into your own thoughts.
I hear ya on living expenses, I live in Connecticut and let me tell you. It is nearly as pricey and NYC. Yet, because we have been using NFP and have been open to the idea of a baby, we have become excellent savers and have created a lifestyle that we could easily live on one income if we needed to. We are a young couple too, only 25.