Catholic View on Pacificsm?

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I have a friend here on campus who is a self proclaimed cafeteria catholic, which in a way I respect, he is very honest in his struggles. But he is a very adamant and passionate about non-violence. He is so strongly pacifist that he says he would not even fight with some one who was rapping his wife if that ever happened, God forbid. Which I feel like that is a very strong statement and doesn’t make much sense to me personally thats why I was wondering what the Catholic view on pacifism was? I was just wondering for my own purposes and study, thank you!
 
Anyone who would rape someone deserves no mercy, pacifist or not. Rape is both a sin and a crime which cries out to heaven for for justice… and the country’s current liberal courts have a very lenient view of justice… markedly different from mine. If I caught someone raping my wife, I’d probably need to go to confession quickly afterwards… if I could actually convince myself of having sinned.

In my personal opinion, your friend is simply a coward and afraid to stand up to what is right. Even Christ Himself had no room for cowards.
 
College_Girl said:
I have a friend here on campus who is a self proclaimed cafeteria catholic, which in a way I respect, he is very honest in his struggles. But he is a very adamant and passionate about non-violence. He is so strongly pacifist that he says he would not even fight with some one who was rapping his wife if that ever happened, God forbid. Which I feel like that is a very strong statement and doesn’t make much sense to me personally thats why I was wondering what the Catholic view on pacifism was? I was just wondering for my own purposes and study, thank you!
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Then for one thing, he has no business getting married. Part of that covenant is to protect your spouse. Secondly, any guy who would believe this is not a Real man. No offence, I know hes your friend and all, but little prissy guys like this make me sick. Id do whatever I woudl have to do, including lethal force to stop an attack, No hesitation. I also hope never to be put in this position because that means a woman is being harmed, and I really really hate that. Just my thoughts. Peace 😦 P.S. You may want to take other guys to the clubs if you go, so if anything does happen, They can defend you. This guys would just sit back and not come to YOUR aid. Now, that may be some food for thought.
 
Ponyguy said:
Anyone who would rape someone deserves no mercy, pacifist or not. Rape is both a sin and a crime which cries out to heaven for for justice… and the country’s current liberal courts have a very lenient view of justice… markedly different from mine. If I caught someone raping my wife, I’d probably need to go to confession quickly afterwards… if I could actually convince myself of having sinned.

In my personal opinion, your friend is simply a coward and afraid to stand up to what is right. Even Christ Himself had no room for cowards.
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You would not have sinned:thumbsup:
 
I think your friends views, while they may believe them to be noble, are incorrect. Self defense, and the defense of those that cannot defend themselves, is expressly permitted by God. Try reading the following:

newadvent.org/cathen/13691a.htm

God Bless
 
Ponyguy said:
Anyone who would rape someone deserves no mercy, pacifist or not. Rape is both a sin and a crime which cries out to heaven for for justice… and the country’s current liberal courts have a very lenient view of justice… markedly different from mine. If I caught someone raping my wife, I’d probably need to go to confession quickly afterwards… if I could actually convince myself of having sinned.

In my personal opinion, your friend is simply a coward and afraid to stand up to what is right. Even Christ Himself had no room for cowards.
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^This is not a view Jesus had…Jesus was all about mercy, respect, and love
 
Boulder257 said:
I think your friends views, while they may believe them to be noble, are incorrect. Self defense, and the defense of those that cannot defend themselves, is expressly permitted by God. Try reading the following:

newadvent.org/cathen/13691a.htm

God Bless
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It does not sound nobel to me. It sounds like someone who need never get married. I would not let my 19 year old daughter go out with such a wimp. 🙂
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
^This is not a view Jesus had…Jesus was all about mercy, respect, and love
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True enough… to a point.

However, what sort of mercy, respect and love did He show the shysters at the temple? Speaking in today’s jargon, He opened a can of “Whoo Pass” and threw them out.

A Christian man is duty-bound to defend those who depend upon him… a husband is morally (and legally) obligated to support and care for his wife and family, and protect them from any sort of aggression, be it physical attack, or theft of property, or any other transgression.

In my opinion, any man who fails in this duty to his wife and family has failed to make good on the promises he made to his wife before The Almighty One on his wedding day… and must answer to The Big Guy when the time arrives.
 
Ponyguy said:
True enough… to a point.

However, what sort of mercy, respect and love did He show the shysters at the temple? Speaking in today’s jargon, He opened a can of “Whoo Pass” and threw them out.

A Christian man is duty-bound to defend those who depend upon him… a husband is morally (and legally) obligated to support and care for his wife and family, and protect them from any sort of aggression, be it physical attack, or theft of property, or any other transgression.

In my opinion, any man who fails in this duty to his wife and family has failed to make good on the promises he made to his wife before The Almighty One on his wedding day… and must answer to The Big Guy when the time arrives.
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He was merely showing respect to God, because these individuals weren’t. I have no problem with your response…I merely quoted you because you previously stated that “anyone who rapes another deserves no mercy” besides that we are in agreement. God Bless!
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
He was merely showing respect to God, because these individuals weren’t. I have no problem with your response…I merely quoted you because you previously stated that “anyone who rapes another deserves no mercy” besides that we are in agreement. God Bless!
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Tell ya what. I will show them, the same exact mercy they showed their victim. Fair? I personally think the death penalty should include Rapist and Child molsesters. This crime is actually worse than murder, because it causes life long trauma to the victim. they may learn to live with the after effects, but they never get over them. Its like a part of their soul is murdered. 😦 Not to mention, the chances of one of these criminals re offending is extremly high. Its what they like to do. :mad:
 
Honestly though folks. Any man that does not wish to defend another, should just cloister themselves. If my grand mother were getting mugged and someone who could have done something, didnt? sorry, this is a sore spot with me. I actually have been in similar positions. I for one, cannot walk away. Id be just as guilty as the one doing the mugging. Plain and simple.
 
benidict said:
Tell ya what. I will show them, the same exact mercy they showed their victim. Fair? I personally think the death penalty should include Rapist and Child molsesters. This crime is actually worse than murder, because it causes life long trauma to the victim. they may learn to live with the after effects, but they never get over them. Its like a part of their soul is murdered. 😦 Not to mention, the chances of one of these criminals re offending is extremly high. Its what they like to do. :mad:
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an “eye for an eye” ideology is counter to everything Christ said and did…death penalty is unjust and you do realize that people can change right?

The “i’m better than you way of thinking” has gotten us nowhere it only causes wars, murders, racial tension, and a heavy heart. Continue to pray…God has worked wonders for me…and the violent thoughts I used to have have gone away. God Bless!
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
an “eye for an eye” ideology is counter to everything Christ said and did…death penalty is unjust and you do realize that people can change right?

The “i’m better than you way of thinking” has gotten us nowhere it only causes wars, murders, racial tension, and a heavy heart. Continue to pray…God has worked wonders for me…and the violent thoughts I used to have have gone away. God Bless!
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If you really believe what your saying…Then how bout you put your money where your mouth is. Why dont you open up a halfway house for rapist, and child molesters, and welcome them into your home? How bout Ted Bundy? Hes dead now. But even he stated, that society needed to be protected from people like him. He agreed his punishment was just. He knew he would kill again if ever released. No the death penalty is not unjust. We have in our possession now days. DNA, and we are better equipped to know if we have the right criminal or not. I dont undersand, why people like your self, side on the part of the perpetrator. That is not justice. that is sick. 😦 Last I checked, my bible said that God gives the secular Judges the sword for a reason. There is a big difference in what Jesus said about turning the other cheek, and tolerating rapist, murderers and child molesters. I think you should rethink your position. 🤷
 
infoplease.com/ipa/A0933722.html

Here is some great info on how many get out of prison after having been convicted of violent crimes, and Re commit them, once they are out. If anything we need to expand the the death penalty. And improve the prison system for those not convicted of violent offenses. But to the OP I would say, that Jesus was not stating a pascifistic way of life when he said turn the other cheek. He was actually teaching a way for Slaves to passively make their masters look at them as equals. When a master hit a slave it would be with the back of the hand. by turning the other cheek, the Master would be forced to acknowledge the slave as an equal, if they in fact struck them the way a free man would be struck. Many times a master would not do this, so the slave would be saved a worse beating. Words mean things. Peace 👍
 
I have a bit of a pacifist streak, I would describe it that if I was drafted for war, I would choose to be a medic or something. I am not comfortable (to say the least) with the deliberate killing of another human being. I think, especially in war, that the opposing side can be as decent a human being as our side. Their government tells them to kill us, our government tells us to kill them.

That said I have intervened when I have seen someone else being hurt. I have also trained various martial arts most of my life, and I have the skills and size to be able to defend those I love. The Gospel provides me with solid moral direction in this regard and allows me to discern with certitude, when to get involved, basically, when I have no other choice. Other than that I will always turn the other cheek. I would also probably choose not to defend myself, but turn the other cheek, whereas I would choose to defend anyone weaker or anyone being abused etc.
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
an “eye for an eye” ideology is counter to everything Christ said and did…death penalty is unjust and you do realize that people can change right?

The “i’m better than you way of thinking” has gotten us nowhere it only causes wars, murders, racial tension, and a heavy heart. Continue to pray…God has worked wonders for me…and the violent thoughts I used to have have gone away. God Bless!
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“Eye for an Eye” is replaced by turning the other cheek when one strikes you.

The Death penalty is not unjust, Christ did not condemn it. Christ was obedient to His very death which was on the Cross. God has explicitly commanded the death penalty on the basis of murder alone (see Genesis 9:6) and the death penalty has been supported by the Church throughout the ages.

People can change, yes. They can repent before their execution is due, this is why Priests are present for Last Rites. The murderer in question is still to be executed however, as in relation to Genesis 9:6.

God is also vengeful. (Hebrews 10:30).

As to Pacifism, the Church has in her past shown quite the contrary. See Just War.

God Bless,

Chris.
 
FightingFat said:
I have a bit of a pacifist streak, I would describe it that if I was drafted for war, I would choose to be a medic or something. I am not comfortable (to say the least) with the deliberate killing of another human being. I think, especially in war, that the opposing side can be as decent a human being as our side. Their government tells them to kill us, our government tells us to kill them.

That said I have intervened when I have seen someone else being hurt. I have also trained various martial arts most of my life, and I have the skills and size to be able to defend those I love. The Gospel provides me with solid moral direction in this regard and allows me to discern with certitude, when to get involved, basically, when I have no other choice. Other than that I will always turn the other cheek. I would also probably choose not to defend myself, but turn the other cheek, whereas I would choose to defend anyone weaker or anyone being abused etc.
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Hey. we can always use qualified medics. 👍 Also am trained in CLS myself. Always good to know how to save life. and if we wound but not kill an enemy combatant, we are responsible for their care. This is also moral and Just. Peace 🙂
 
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