Catholic view on Predestination

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What is it closer to : Arminianism, Evangelical Calvinism, or totally incomparable with either…as both are heretical and must absolutely be denied !!
 
I suppose you could argue it’s “closer to” Arminianism in that Arminianism believes man has a role to play in his salvation. But as I understand, Arminianism does not credit man’s free choice as something done with unmerited prevenient grace, making even the free choice God’s doing. It’s certainly a mystery how this can be accomplished, but God is talented. :o The Church can only teach what has been revealed.
 
MarcoPolo said:
I suppose you could argue it’s “closer to” Arminianism in that Arminianism believes man has a role to play in his salvation. But as I understand, Arminianism does not credit man’s free choice as something done with unmerited prevenient grace, making even the free choice God’s doing. It’s certainly a mystery how this can be accomplished, but God is talented. :o The Church can only teach what has been revealed.
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I’m looking into the newest fad …Evangelical Calvinism.

But, it allows for some of those Predestined to Salvation IN CHRIST to opt out ( the damned). But, how can this be called Calvinism…which allows no exercise of Free Will ?
 
brb3 said:
I’m looking into the newest fad …Evangelical Calvinism.

But, it allows for some of those Predestined to Salvation IN CHRIST to opt out ( the damned). But, how can this be called Calvinism…which allows no exercise of Free Will ?
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I haven’t heard of this new fad. Do you have a link that explains it? I’m kind of curious…
 
Actually there is a lot of room for theological opinion on predestination.

Molinists are like Catholic Armenians. Thomists are close to Calvin.

Regardless, one must affirm free will, affirm predestination, and deny predestination of thedamned so called double predestination.
 
Ignore the above poster. both Arminianism and Calvinism are heretical.
 
John MacArthur has a good 28 minute internet video on Reformed Calvinism … TULIP discussion… which is interesting & focuses on what being ‘known by God’ means.
 
brb3 said:
So what is the normative Catholic teaching ?
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That human beings choose to cooperate with grace or not. Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to explain the finer theological details.
 
brb3 said:
I thought so.

So what is the normative Catholic teaching ?
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I don’t know that there’s a “normative” teaching since this is still a very great mystery. But as near as I can tell, the Church has proclaimed at least 3 things throughout the centuries.
  1. That man’s response is free.
  2. That man’s free, faithful response first demands God’s prevenient grace
  3. Neither man’s freedom, nor God’s sovereign will is violated by 1 or 2. And this is a great mystery.
Examples of the above:*CCC#600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: “In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.

The sin of the first man has so impaired and weakened free will that no one thereafter can either love God as he ought or believe in God or do good for God’s sake, unless the grace of divine mercy has preceded him. (Council of Orange, 529 A.D.)

But where this would deviate from Armenianism, as I understand, is that the will is itself aided by grace, something often called prevenient grace. For example:He knew would perish, but He did not predestine that they would perish, because He is just; however, He predestined eternal punishment for them. And on account of this we speak of only one predestination of God, which pertains either to the gift of grace or to the retribution of justice. … The freedom of will which we lost in the first man, we have received back through Christ our Lord; and we have free will for good, preceded and aided by grace, and we have free will for evil, abandoned by grace. Moreover, because freed by grace and by grace healed from corruption, we have free will. (Council of Quiersy, A.D. 853)

The Synod furthermore declares, that in adults, the beginning of the said Justification is to be derived from the prevenient grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called; that so they, who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace. (Council of Trent, Session 6, chapter 5)

If any one saith, that without the prevenient inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and without his help, man can believe, hope, love, or be penitent as he ought, so as that the grace of Justification may be bestowed upon him; let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Session 6, Canon 3)*I believe the last quote anathematizes Armenianism, if I understand Armenianism correctly. And Calvin’s idea of predestination eliminated man’s will from the matter.
 
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