Catholic view on Qabbalah?

[newcalling]

When I was an interfaith minister (inter-religious) one of the many mystery traditions I studied is Qabbalah. I’m not talking about Hollywood Qabbalah, but traditional Qabbalah. At the time, I wasn’t old enough, nor do I meet other requirements, to have a formal teacher of Qabbalah, but I read some of their texts, such as the Sepher Yezirah.

The beliefs of Qaballah aren’t exactly what is taught by the church or most of her scholars and doctors, but I don’t see it as inherently heretical either. I’m not sure the truth of it, but it certainly was fascinating to study. I include some of it in my fiction books, but very rudimentary stuff only.

Has it ever been formally ruled on, decreed about, or anything official like that? Have any Catholic scholars spoken for or against it? I’m not planning on doing any of the rituals or anything like that, I’m not qualified to anyway. I’m not going to do any divination nor anything of that sort either, though it would be cool to have an Urim and Thummim like in the Old Testament. I just think some of their views on creation are fascinating, and I don’t see how they conflict with church teaching.

Qabbalah (spelled a lot of different ways) is Jewish mysticism. It details about the process of creation, and relationship of man to God. The main text is the Zohar, but there are several other texts. Since the original, several other versions of the practice have popped up, and some other traditions have adopted some things from it, such as the Tree of Life diagram. Madonna had a version of it, not respected by most traditional practitioners, in the 90’s or early 2000’s, and I don’t know if it’s still around.

Anyway, I’d like to know if it’s been discussed at all, and what the opinions or decrees were.

 

[LiamQ]

I just think some of their views on creation are fascinating, and I don’t see how they conflict with church teaching.

Can I make a humble and quiet suggestion?

Don’t go off immersing yourself in other religions or their mysticism.

It’s not really our state in life to go searching through the vast nuances of other religions to find the grain of truth they might contain and to separate it from the many errors they undoubtedly are plagued with. Most of us are nowhere near well-formed or educated enough, and even if we read a ton of stuff, there’s still massive gaps in our knowledge. Moreover, there’s a very, very strong likelihood that we don’t have any extraordinary supernatural graces like the true discernment of spirits to utilize when analyzing these things.

So I think the most prudent thing is just to stay away and not to give in to the vice of curiosity.

We have the fullness of the truth God wanted to reveal right here in the Catholic Church. While it’s true that other religions contain some truth as well, it doesn’t take a lot of error to absolutely poison a mind. Moreover, the only reason we even know it’s true at all is because it conforms to what the Church teaches in some slight way. You’re not going to find extra revelation somewhere else.

So yes, leave it alone, read a good Catholic mystic.

 

[newcalling]

Can I make a humble and quiet suggestion?

Don’t go off immersing yourself in other religions or their mysticism.

It’s not really our state in life to go searching through the vast nuances of other religions to find the grain of truth they might contain and to separate it from the many errors they undoubtedly are plagued with. Most of us are nowhere near well-formed or educated enough, and even if we read a ton of stuff, there’s still massive gaps in our knowledge. Moreover, there’s a very, very strong likelihood that we don’t have any extraordinary supernatural graces like the true discernment of spirits to utilize when analyzing these things.

So I think the most prudent thing is just to stay away and not to give in to the vice of curiosity.

We have the fullness of the truth God wanted to reveal right here in the Catholic Church. While it’s true that other religions contain some truth as well, it doesn’t take a lot of error to absolutely poison a mind. Moreover, the only reason we even know it’s true at all is because it conforms to what the Church teaches in some slight way. You’re not going to find extra revelation somewhere else.

So yes, leave it alone, read a good Catholic mystic.

90% of what I currently read is Catholic, currently reading about Saint Francis of Assisi. I don’t read things from other religions anymore. However, for about 20 years I didn’t consider myself Christian, and I studied diverse religions. Now it’s simply good material to feed my fiction writing.

I wouldn’t consider Judaism to be another religion entirely, as there are Messianic Jews and even Hebrew Catholics. Historical Judaism is the root of Christianity. Qabbalah is the mystical arm of Judaism, and is based largely on the Torah. I haven’t studied it in years, but I wouldn’t necessarily see it as studying another religion.

 

[Generic_Name]

When I was an interfaith minister (inter-religious) one of the many mystery traditions I studied is Qabbalah. I’m not talking about Hollywood Qabbalah, but traditional Qabbalah. At the time, I wasn’t old enough, nor do I meet other requirements, to have a formal teacher of Qabbalah, but I read some of their texts, such as the Sepher Yezirah.

The beliefs of Qaballah aren’t exactly what is taught by the church or most of her scholars and doctors, but I don’t see it as inherently heretical either. I’m not sure the truth of it, but it certainly was fascinating to study. I include some of it in my fiction books, but very rudimentary stuff only.

Has it ever been formally ruled on, decreed about, or anything official like that? Have any Catholic scholars spoken for or against it? I’m not planning on doing any of the rituals or anything like that, I’m not qualified to anyway. I’m not going to do any divination nor anything of that sort either, though it would be cool to have an Urim and Thummim like in the Old Testament. I just think some of their views on creation are fascinating, and I don’t see how they conflict with church teaching.

Qabbalah (spelled a lot of different ways) is Jewish mysticism. It details about the process of creation, and relationship of man to God. The main text is the Zohar, but there are several other texts. Since the original, several other versions of the practice have popped up, and some other traditions have adopted some things from it, such as the Tree of Life diagram. Madonna had a version of it, not respected by most traditional practitioners, in the 90’s or early 2000’s, and I don’t know if it’s still around.

Anyway, I’d like to know if it’s been discussed at all, and what the opinions or decrees were.

It isn’t the fullness of truth. Why bother?

 

[Dorothy]

It isn’t the fullness of truth. Why bother?

I agree.

We have so much to gain by studying the Doctors of the Church on prayer. There are many good books that explain their teachings that we can grow spiritually from.

 

[newcalling]

It isn’t the fullness of truth. Why bother?

For the same reason we still read the Old Testament. Anyway, I was just wondering if the church or any of its scholars had something to say about it. If not, that’s fine. Again, it was just something I studied in the past and I stil don’t see any conflict since they have gone to great lengths not to contradict the Torah, which is part of our Bible.

 

[LethalMouse]

I’d say it is a difficult thing, a lot of sources and even in this site have it listed as generally bad.

However the issue I do see is that a lot of their wrong beliefs are “things many prominent people say”

In that idk without reading the thing if that is just what people say or not… apparently Kabbalah interpretation can look a lot like Protestantism. And I wouldn’t say the Bible is bad just because of what many Christian preachers say

There is also some issue that many Catholic/Christians apparently read it and decide it means one thing and others read it and decide it does coincide with the bible…similar issue but in a sense if you read it and were to walk away seeing it agree with the church it would not be so bad for you…whereas some I suppose read it and think it says something else. Though notably humans are good at that.

I’d say it is seemingly questionable and to answer you prime OP question it seems most Catholic Encyclopedias like CA and New Advent on quick search speak negatively for the most part based on the above. Though I couldn’t find much from higher authoritative sources

I would put that one thing they mention is a claim of creation starting with Abraham being an obviously contradictory belief. However, they all noted it was what “some” kabbalaists say, and no resource confirms that I could find that such a belief or understanding is inherent within the text itself.

Oh and on search it seems Kabbalah seems a slightly more common spelling though the Q does appear somewhat used as well.

 

[newcalling]

I’d say it is a difficult thing, a lot of sources and even in this site have it listed as generally bad.

However the issue I do see is that a lot of their wrong beliefs are “things many prominent people say”

In that idk without reading the thing if that is just what people say or not… apparently Kabbalah interpretation can look a lot like Protestantism. And I wouldn’t say the Bible is bad just because of what many Christian preachers say

There is also some issue that many Catholic/Christians apparently read it and decide it means one thing and others read it and decide it does coincide with the bible…similar issue but in a sense if you read it and were to walk away seeing it agree with the church it would not be so bad for you…whereas some I suppose read it and think it says something else. Though notably humans are good at that.

I’d say it is seemingly questionable and to answer you prime OP question it seems most Catholic Encyclopedias like CA and New Advent on quick search speak negatively for the most part based on the above. Though I couldn’t find much from higher authoritative sources

I would put that one thing they mention is a claim of creation starting with Abraham being an obviously contradictory belief. However, they all noted it was what “some” kabbalaists say, and no resource confirms that I could find that such a belief or understanding is inherent within the text itself.

Oh and on search it seems Kabbalah seems a slightly more common spelling though the Q does appear somewhat used as well.

Excellent response, thank you. Different spell checkers insist on different spellings, but it’s a Hebrew word, so we’re just approximating in English.

I’ve not run across the belief that creation started with Abraham, but I never had formal training. What I have seen is heavy on Adam and Eve (the Midrashic character “Lilith” is seen as a demon, and medieval Christians often believed in her as well.) My understanding from the books I read are that creation started with emmanations from God (often mistakenly called angels) known as the Sephirot, and I believe that the angels were next. As I said, they are very careful not to contradict the Torah, as one must be a practicing Jew (over 40 with grandchildren) to study it formally.

There are some beliefs about Solomon controlling demons by the power of God to build the Temple (usually stated to be because of a ring or amulet) and I’ve heard stories about Job using God’s name to be able to summon God’s presence. I don’t know how common those beliefs are. Those beliefs wouldn’t necessarily contradict the Bible, but not something I would delve into. In a sense, though, our Catholic priests summon the presence of God every time they bless the Eucharist. We all do, to a lesser extent, in that “wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there I am also.”

Catholic practices, more than anyone except perhaps the Messianic Jews, mirror a lot of Temple and Jewish practices, and in some ways (such as expounding about angels and Catholic mystics) seem to mirror some things in Qabbalah.

It seems that your search didn’t turn up much more than mine did on the subject, but I thank you for taking the time to do so. It seems there are a lot of opinions out there, but no references I could find. I’m wondering if a Qabbalist were to convert to Catholicism, what would they think or believe. I have never been a Qabbalist, so I can’t be sure. I think that the church has been intentionally silent about it, probably out of respect for our Jewish roots and their right to their own mysticism. Personally, I don’t see a problem with it, as long as we defer to the Catholic church if we find any conflicts of beliefs.

The only conflicts I do see can be big ones, but can also be mitigated through deeper understanding. One, of course, is that most Qabbalists don’t believe that Yeshua is Moshiach, but that is because they are Jewish. There are Christians who have adopted Qabbalah who obviously believe in Yeshua as Moshiach. Likewise, som Qabbalistic circles believe in a Holy Trinity of “Father, Mother, and either Son or Spirit.” It’s likely based on the feminine “Shekinah” which refers to the presence of God in the Temple (specifically on the Mercy Seat of the Ark.) I’m not sure how common that Trinitarian belief is amongst Qabbalists, but it would seem to me to be a door to helping them accept the Holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

For those who don’t know: Yeshua= Jesus and Moshiach= Messiah/Christ.

 

[pianistclare]

For the same reason we still read the Old Testament. Anyway, I was just wondering if the church or any of its scholars had something to say about it. If not, that’s fine. Again, it was just something I studied in the past and I stil don’t see any conflict since they have gone to great lengths not to contradict the Torah, which is part of our Bible.

Except the Old Testament IS past of our History, and Christ’s. Those are the Scriptures HE studied.

 

[anon67074017]

I think it is heretical. It is promoted by Freemasonry.

 

[LethalMouse]

I think it is heretical. It is promoted by Freemasonry.

They do seem to use it in a sense. Though it looks like they sort of take/leave what they want.

Makes sense since they are Christians who take/leave aspects…the prot motto?

freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/kabbalah.html

but idk if I would say anything they like = bad

They do like the bible and Jesus lol.

I presume they like bricks too?

 

[LethalMouse]

I am reading on this and can say the big issue seems to be its shroud of secrecy allows for all manner of either speculation or for those few who are accessed to tilt it how they see fit.

But it does seem interesting that it holds some spiritual concepts often lacking in Judaeo Christian culture.

Namely by that, much positive aspects of say Asian culture for physical discipline etc seem to have existed in our heritage via this.

Perhaps though it is something to be approached like Kung Fu. Kung Fu originated by Buddhist monks and was part spiritual as such. We can totally do Kung Fu…but we should not become Buddhist monks.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I read about a Jewish Kabbalah Community in my local area years ago.

From what I read, they are a contemplative community and seek a closer relationship with God.

Why Jesus has not revealed himself to them, I can not answer, but they were very deep spiritually, and I believe some will be led to Jesus Christ in time, if that be his will.

As a Catholic, we have contemplative spirituality which much the same, but deeper because of the relationship with the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ.

When I hear people say that Kabbalah is evil, I hear a person who really hasn’t experienced contemplation themselves, and judge from a place of ignorance.

Anyway, discover contemplative prayer within the Catholic Tradition, and you’ll find growth toward union with Jesus Christ, which is our desire in the first place.

Jim

 

[Robert_Sock]

I read about a Jewish Kabbalah Community in my local area years ago.

From what I read, they are a contemplative community and seek a closer relationship with God.

Why Jesus has not revealed himself to them, I can not answer, but they were very deep spiritually, and I believe some will be led to Jesus Christ in time, if that be his will.

As a Catholic, we have contemplative spirituality which much the same, but deeper because of the relationship with the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ.

When I hear people say that Kabbalah is evil, I hear a person who really hasn’t experienced contemplation themselves, and judge from a place of ignorance.

Anyway, discover contemplative prayer within the Catholic Tradition, and you’ll find growth toward union with Jesus Christ, which is our desire in the first place.

Jim

I agree with you wholeheartedly! I believe that the real Zohar (I think that the Zohar we have is a watered-down version of the real Zohar) contains many secrets to our existence. I have often wondered if the scroll with the seven seals in Revelation is the real Zohar.

 

[anon67074017]

They do seem to use it in a sense. Though it looks like they sort of take/leave what they want.

Makes sense since they are Christians who take/leave aspects…the prot motto?

freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/kabbalah.html

but idk if I would say anything they like = bad

They do like the bible and Jesus lol.

I presume they like bricks too?

Freemasons do appear to choose the aspects of Christianity they like and combine it with the occult.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Freemasons do appear to choose the aspects of Christianity they like and combine it with the occult.

Freemasons don’t chose anything from Christianity.

Don’t confuse those Catholics who join the Freemasons as being reflective of Freemason beliefs.

Jim

 

[LethalMouse]

Freemasons don’t chose anything from Christianity.

Don’t confuse those Catholics who join the Freemasons as being reflective of Freemason beliefs.

Jim

That is a ridiculous statement.

The reason a catholic can’t be a mason is the same reason a cathokic can’t be a Baptist or Mormon.

Not because of some whacky conspiracy theories.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That is a ridiculous statement.

The reason a catholic can’t be a mason is the same reason a cathokic can’t be a Baptist or Mormon.

Not because of some whacky conspiracy theories.

A Catholic can’t become a Freemason because he has to reject the core beliefs of Christianity, i.e. Jesus divinity, and the Holy Trinity.

They were originally anti-Catholic in Europe and sought to destroy the Catholic Church.

Catholics faced excommunication if they joined the Freemasons.

This isn’t a whacky conspiracy theory as you so insultingly put it.

Jim

 

[newcalling]

A Catholic can’t become a Freemason because he has to reject the core beliefs of Christianity, i.e. Jesus divinity, and the Holy Trinity.

They were originally anti-Catholic in Europe and sought to destroy the Catholic Church.

Catholics faced excommunication if they joined the Freemasons.

This isn’t a whacky conspiracy theory as you so insultingly put it.

Jim

You are correct. I almost joined the Freemasons a few years before I joined the Catholic church; I am now a Knight of Columbus. There are many Christians who are Freemasons, but I’m not sure how. One of the things which struck me was that they told us we couldn’t say the name of Jesus in their temple. I wasn’t Christian at the time, but I have always loved Jesus.

Their prayer, at a dinner we attended at their hall, was quite unusual too; no mention of Jesus, and didn’t end with Amen. I think it ended with, “So mote it be.”

Their only link with Qabbalah is that they have a legend about a man named Hiram Obiff who was supposedly the chief architect of Solomon’s Temple. Several Freemasons with whom I spoke said that they knew it was a fictional story, but it was supposed to teach something. Having seen the inside of one of their temples, it didn’t strike me as too Qabbalistic. There were a few things which vaguely may have been influenced by Qabbalah, but at best they borrow a little bit from it, as mystery traditions often do borrow from one another (such as Joseph Smith borrowing from Masons for Mormon Temple rituals, Golden Dawn and OTO borrowing from Masons, Hermeticism and Qabbalah, etc.)

Yes, as I have read and been told, at one point an entire order asked to be disbanded because they feared they were too infiltrated by the Masons (I think it was the Jesuits, but obviously they’re still around.) The Catholic church and the Freemasons have a long-standing dislike for one another, to say the least.

 

[LethalMouse]

A Catholic can’t become a Freemason because he has to reject the core beliefs of Christianity, i.e. Jesus divinity, and the Holy Trinity.

More like the same approach that most secular organizations take to be “all inclusive” to religious tolerance. A Christian Free Mason does not have to reject those things. It is more that they push acceptance that as the Church recognizes Muslims worship the same God as us, the masons simply accept that the other religions who join are worshipping the same in altered state. Which ironically is a fairly common belief by random lapse christians and others. Same god different linguistics and lost informations.

They were originally anti-Catholic in Europe and sought to destroy the Catholic Church.

Yes and the King of England wanted catholics dead… I don’t live in the middle east, so I don’t hold ancestral grudges.

Catholics faced excommunication if they joined the Freemasons.

Still do

This isn’t a whacky conspiracy theory as you so insultingly put it.

No, the simplest terms of a Catholic should not be are not conspiracy theory.

The reasons and levels as to why, those often get into conspiracy territory.

And moreso negate taking into account that the Masons could have a lodge made up of people who look something like the general population. Like you know? half butted mostly secular christian-ish people who don’t really pay attention to their christian identity…

Seriously, how many christians do you know who actually christian?

less people go to church than not, and most of the not category are some kind of “christian”

Jim