Catholic Views on Modern Prophets

  • Thread starter Thread starter cfernandomaciel
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cfernandomaciel

Guest
I’m a revert in the Catholic Church. I’m attending to RCIA classes along with my wife.
Yesterday during our lesson, our teacher read something that kind of got me worried.

In the lesson it was teaching about prophets, it went around explaining about all the definitions and examples of “old day” prophets. Not much novelty for anybody whom has grew up in this planet.

But in the lesson, he read a part that was trying to tell us that today we have modern prophets too. The thing that got me worried about is not because there is or there isn’t any prophet in these days (for I don’t really care), what got me worried is that in the text it explained that anybody who is doing something for the betterment of our world is a prophet of God.

It - imho - kind of diminishes what a prophet really is.

And the text went further, it gave some examples of modern day prophets, such as Martin Luther King Jr., Mahattma Gandhi, and some (gasp) environmentalist movements.

Now, to the details…

I live on Brazil, here we have a problem with Liberation Theology, which, by definition is the application of Marxism in Christianity.

It’s not everywhere, but it’s a problem that many Catholics need to keep a constant eye on.

Now, these lessons my wife and I have been taking, come from a book, which is put together by our local Diocese, which I am not sure whether is infected by Liberation Theology or not.

I come to you to help me understand more about the doctrine of the Catholic Church on this subject, to ask you for some texts, documents, passages in the catequism, Papal Encyclical, and so on which may or may not confirm that this lesson on the prophets is Liberation Theology or not.

As an extra trivia, we are down in our 10th lesson, and throughout the entire classes, I felt they were a little too much leaning toward the tentative of diminishing Jesus’ role in Christianity, which is very much Theology of Liberation.

Please, help.
 
All right, with regards to prophecy, it would be very correct to say that it is ongoing, in at least some form. Like, the various Marian apparitions and what not, that have been approved by the Church, however, the faithful are not bound to believe those. The age, of public Revelation, ended, with the New Testament generation. That being said, I think that if someone claims to have had a vision from the Lord, I don’t necessarily not believe them, however, I think we should gather information regarding it. I remember, I used to have a Facebook, and there was this lady who had a Devotion to the Bayside apparitions, which have been repeatedly condemned by various Bishops, not the least of which, is because it says that babies conceived by in vitro fertilization don’t have souls. Every child conceived, has a soul (if I recall correctly). If someone claims to have a vision, where Church teaching is contradicted, you can bet it is false.
 
Both Modernism and Liberation Theology are spread like cancer among the Brazilian clergy.
If your bishop is adept of them, the textbook of your diocese probably is too.
Isn’t there a more traditional parish, a chapel of the Good Shepherd Institute or a building of the Heralds of the Gospel where you live? I’d suggest getting RCIA classes there, because your average parish will most likely will have this kind of problem.
 
Last edited:
@cfernandomaciel.-- It seems obvious to me that Gandhi and Martin Luther King, whatever their undoubted merits, are not “prophets” in the strict Catholic sense. On the other hand, it’s probably not worth getting into a quarrel with your instructors. They are probably teaching the course in accordance with what they’ve been trained to do and with what the diocese requires them to do.

This is a politically delicate moment in Brazil, with a controversial new president due to take office on January 1. The people on the left, who lost the election, can be stirred to anger all too easily. Better just let it go. After your course is finished and the instructors are no longer in a position to retaliate against you, you’ll be free to disagree with them all you want.
 
Last edited:
Fr. John Hardon SJ noted in his Catholic Catechism that with the death of the last of the Apostles, there would be no further revelations and the duty of the Church would be to preserve the deposit of faith as it was handed down to them. So any talk of modern day “Prophets” is hogwash.

So if possible I would concur with the other posters and go to RCIA at a different parish.
 
Last edited:
Dear @BartholomewB,

It’s far from my nature and intention to stir any kind of quarrel against my Ecclesiastic leaders. I have a huge respect towards my Deacon and my Priest. They are loving men, full of only good intentions.

My only intention is to be able to separate what is Theology of Liberation (and any kind of modernism) from what the Doctrine (with upper case D) really teaches.

It’s indeed a sensitive time here in Brazil. Our elected president is everything different from any past President, and our past is filled with socialist, post-modernist indoctrination.

Thank you for your kind words.
 
Raph said:
Both Modernism and Liberation Theology are spread like cancer among the Brazilian clergy.
Click to expand...
Indeed! That’s what worries me most about it.

This is a very small town, of only 2,800 people. I won’t be able to find any other resources here. Also, I respect the deacon and our Priest. They are not ill intended. I think I can separate what is Doctrine from what is Liberation Theology. Only in this specific case, I didn’t really know where the Church’s tradition really stood.

Thanks a lot for your help! 🙂
 
adamhovey1988 said:
it would be very correct to say that it is ongoing, in at least some form. Like, the various Marian apparitions and what not, that have been approved by the Church
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree 100% with you on that. However, these are apparitions that are professed to be by Catholic Saints, experienced by Catholic children (like the one in Portugal in Fatima).
adamhovey1988 said:
If someone claims to have a vision, where Church teaching is contradicted, you can bet it is false.
Click to expand...
In this case, no one is claiming to have had a vision, instead, this seems to be a tentative of advancing any kind of notorious historical leader, such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, or Mahatma Gandhi into prophets of God, with in this case, in my very limited understanding, seems to be a tentative of diminishing God and the role of the Biblical Prophets.
 
A few years ago I read an interesting article by Clodovis Boff, Leonardo Boff’s brother, which I think was probably the one mentioned here, though after all this time I can’t be sure:

Em 2007, a Revista Eclesiástica Brasileira (nº 68) publicou um artigo de Clodovis denominado: "Teologia da Libertação e volta ao fundamento", no qual Clodovis criticou outros teólogos da libertação de terem promovido uma inversão de primado epistemológico ao terem "trocado Deus pelos pobres", o que teria provocado uma instrumentalização da fé para usos políticos:

Clodovis evidently came to the conclusion, though a few years too late, that Liberation Theology is fundamentally incompatible with true Catholic theology. The trouble with his article is that it is much too long: he never says in one short sentence anything that he can say in a long, rambling paragraph. Nevertheless, it’s worth reading if you can get hold of it. It would probably be wise not to mention it to your RCIA instructors, though.

 
Last edited:
Johann_du_Toit said:
Fr. John Hardon SJ noted in his Catholic Catechism that with the death of the last of the Apostles, there would be no further revelations and the duty of the Church would be to preserve the deposit of faith as it was handed down to them. So any talk of modern day “Prophets” is hogwash.
Click to expand...
While public revelation has ceased, the Church does still recognize that there might be private revelations. People aren’t required to believe them, as they are with public revelation, but we also aren’t required to go to the extreme of saying there is no such revelation.

That said, I doubt Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. would ever be considered a prophet by the Church’s standards, even if they did profess truth openly. Someone like St. Juan Diego or Sister Lucia would be better examples, since both had private revelations relevant to and approved by the Catholic Church.
 
Last edited:
ZMystiCat said:
That said, I doubt Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. would ever be considered a prophet by the Church’s standards, even if they did profess truth openly.
Click to expand...
Neither Gandhi nor King was a Catholic, so that would end the matter right there for the Church.
The Church does not officially recognize any private revelation from non-Catholics.

Persons in the Church such as bishops might pay some respect to a particular non-Catholic person whose teachings (in their opinion) embodied some aspect of the Christian ideal or agreed with some position the Catholic Church took, but Catholics would still not be required to accept or follow the non-Catholic person’s teachings.
 
I believe that even the journalists who are fighting with corruption or the mafia can be considered a kind of embodiment of the Old Testament prophets.
 
Last edited:
The Hebrew word for prophet was “nabi”, which literally means seer.

Many of the OT prophets had real revelations that did not make it into the Bible. This is much like private revelations.

Less similarly, many OT prophets talked about the present bad things done by Israel and Judah, as ambassadors or royal messengers from God. So in that sense and that sense only, there is a prophetic likeness to some things that are done by non-Catholics or non-Christians who call for real justice. (But Gandhi was not much like the pagan prophet Balaam.)

It is better to refer to such people as what they are, moral teachers or moral politicians, rather than what they are not. Certainly reporters.should not be prophetic, as they are supposed to.simply report happenings, not making commentary except on their own time. Prophets were not investigators; they saw and spoke only what God showed them. (Investigation was the purview of a judge, counselor, or king.)

There is much more prophetic character in being a baptized Christian, or a psalmist, or a lector, or a priest or bishop or pope. We must try hard to pass along God’s message truly, not being false prophets who substitute false messages.
 
Last edited:
Clodovis Boff and his brother, Leonardo Boff, along with some other names, such as: Fryer Betto, and Bishop Steiner, are prominent names here in Brazil, when it comes down to Liberation Theology.

The good news is that the Catholic community is removing the mask from these guys, uncovering their real agenda of implementing communism.
 
adamhovey1988 said:
…
Click to expand...
There are modern private revelations and they are not part of the deposit of faith.

Catechism
66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”

28 DV 4; cf. 1 Tim 6:14; Titus 2:13.
Click to expand...
[DV = Dei Verbum]
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top