Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists"?

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I wouldn’t call you an extremist…devout and true Catholic yes…extremist no.

That being said I still think there are extremist Catholics. I’ve read some articles by some Catholics, who still think women shouldn’t sing or have any role in the church community as lay people! It upsets me because I love singing in church and hearing people say that I shouldn’t be allowed to sing…I almost feel robbed of my spirit. :blackeye:

I don’t know how to classify those people though…maybe extremist isn’t the right word…
 
By imposters, Catholics should realize, just like it’s written in the Bible, savage wolves will come in among you. We also read how the disciples encountered others claiming to be like them but found them false. This was happening in the early Church and is still happening today.

Do not be deceived. Because of deception and playing on sincere Catholic sympathies, too many were made to believe that abortion would be used for terrible emergencies only like rape and incest.

How do you recognize a Catholic on the internet? How closely do they model Christ? What is the fruit or effect of their words?

It is obvious that some priests do not accept all of what the Church teaches. We need to do something about that. Contact your local Bishop. Explain the matter to him. And when you encounter someone claiming to be Catholic on the internet who disagrees with clear Church teaching, show it to them. Whether it’s a link to the Catechism or an encyclical, show it to them, and thereby, to everyone reading, what clear Church teaching is.

Peace,
Ed
 
I’m not really sure if I myself am an extremist. I do follow the teachings of the church as closely as I can and when I slip up, I will be the first to admit it. To play devil’s advocate for a minute, what do you think about the idea of Obama speaking at a Catholic university but without a doubt staying away from the topic of abortion? He could speak on the economy or maybe the war or how to get a job, anything but abortion. Yes, he is pro-abortion and that’s horrible. But at the same time, he is the President of the USA, as much as we hate it. He deserves some privileges with that title, right? Plus, if he avoided that particular topic, it would be like he was showing respect for our beliefs as a religion in general. What do y’all think?

Tracy
 
To me, an extremist is someone who’s let the letter of the law stifle the spirit, much like the Pharisees did. I think of an extremist Catholic as someone who for instance, accuses the Pope of being heretical (or in the case of Sedevacantists, claim we haven’t had a “real Pope” since :: Insert Pope of choice, usually Pius XII::" ) or doesn’t accept the fact that everyone is called to a different state in life, and that it may not entail being married or entering the religious life, or who doesn’t accept human diversity as a fact of life. While I love the Mass in Latin, I get sick to death of the Catholics who seem to be stuck in the 1950s and think every Catholic needs to get married and have a pewful of kids or enter the priesthood/the religious life, when some of them may not be called for it. Or the sorts who seem to think every single movie, book, and TV show needs to be family-friendly, when adults need some well-produced entertainment that’s geared toward their maturity level.
 
Too many Catholics have a distorted view of the 1950s. First, more Catholics followed Church teaching. Divorce was rare.

No one in my neighborhood had a pew full of kids, the average was two. Two.

There was something called dating which was followed by courtship, which was followed by engagement and then, maybe, marriage.

More people in the 1950s followed the Church regarding sexual morality. There was modesty in speech, dress and behavior.

I recall the priest walking to visit the sick in my neighborhood. Religious vocations were admired.

That’s the standard by which Catholics today should live.

There was a Catholic Legion of Decency and all TV shows were family friendly along with most movies.

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_29061936_vigilanti-cura_en.html

Peace,
Ed
 
To me, an extremist is someone who’s let the letter of the law stifle the spirit, much like the Pharisees did. I think of an extremist Catholic as someone who for instance, accuses the Pope of being heretical (or in the case of Sedevacantists, claim we haven’t had a “real Pope” since :: Insert Pope of choice, usually Pius XII::" ) or doesn’t accept the fact that everyone is called to a different state in life, and that it may not entail being married or entering the religious life, or who doesn’t accept human diversity as a fact of life. While I love the Mass in Latin, I get sick to death of the Catholics who seem to be stuck in the 1950s and think every Catholic needs to get married and have a pewful of kids or enter the priesthood/the religious life, when some of them may not be called for it. Or the sorts who seem to think every single movie, book, and TV show needs to be family-friendly, when adults need some well-produced entertainment that’s geared toward their maturity level.
Well said. I agree completely. The only thing I would change is this, and it’s only my opinion - I think that single people should only stay single if their job encourages it (For example if you have a job where you work 60 hours a week and/or you travel a great deal. Flight attendant/Pilot or Moderate-sized business owner would be good examples.) If you’re single and you only work 30 hours a week for instance, I think that it opens the door pretty wide to the temptation to have “unauthorized relations,” you could say. This may be the reason that there is so much stress in the Catholic church to either marry or enter the religious life.

I agree completely with what you said about the media. I hate the media, but by God, I’m going to watch a good crime thriller every so often. As long as tv, radio, etc is used in moderation it’s fine, ya know?

Tracy
 
Does anyone read the Bible? We are told to avoid fornication. Next, we are told that everyone should have a wife or husband but that it is better to be devoted to God. This is not about some so-called pressure, this is Biblical.

I also reccomend looking up the word devotion. I knew one man who would be away from his family for up to a month at a time but devotion to his wife, family and to God kept the relationship and commitment going.

Peace,
Ed
 
I have been Catholic for almost 9 years now and was shocked to realize this author was a Notre Dame alum, claimed to be a good Catholic but was concerned about the extreme views held by many other Catholics.

It was like having cold water thrown in my face. This person was referring to me and almost every other Catholic I know!! In my writing, I get some pretty nasty comments from non- Catholics but just never expected it from one of my brothers or sisters.(the above example was not directed at me but to a general audience)

The question I have is this: have I been living in my post-confirmation bubble for years now or have times changed that much in 8 3/4 years?
Since when is following the teachings of the Church, including the respect for life, considered by other Catholics to be “extremist”? Are those of us who do that a minority?

This has profoundly shaken me in my spirit. Any insights or suggestions I am missing here?

Pax,
Pam
Blessings to you, Pam. I can honestly say I know well the gut-wrenching feeling one gets when at odds with their fellow Catholics - the very ones we should be in solidarity with. I should be even more understanding of them since, at one time in my life, I bought into the liberalism and rebellion that was coming from within the Church. Someone in an earlier post mentioned Humanae Vitae and although I loved the priest we had at that time, he, like many other young priests, was in downright disobedience. I remember advice he gave me that was in direct opposition to Church teachings I had followed my entire life. Although I never completely succumbed to the madness, I nevertheless, was in rebellion toward the old stuffy ways of the Church and wanted to move forward with the other Progressives. I eventually returned to the more Narrow Way with the grace of God, but believe I am now doing penance for my past sins.

After my “conversion,” we spent many years in an area of the country where truth was always taught (at least at our parish,) and the most beautiful spirituality existed; in other words, a full Catholicism enriched with all of the Tradition of our past. Our pastor was a true shepherd who protected us from the wolves and craziness that seemed to be abounding in other places. Well, we moved back home and much to my shock and surprise, it was hardly the same Church. I never appreciated just how protected we were. Your “cold water in the face” is an apt description.

We are now in a very liberal diocese, which over the years, has become a spiritual wasteland. We’ve lived here three years now and have seen liturgical abuses and scandal so much so, that we have changed parishes four times. Many Catholics here are not even in full Communion with the Church, although they regularily receive the sacraments. I was shocked and very angry at first, hurt, indignant and wanted to fix the entire thing. I have written letters to the priests and have sought counsel. Although teaching religious ed was my ministry for a long time, I no longer do that because of the watered down sacramental preparation most of the children get and I still shudder at the lack of catechises for both children and adults. I really must be one of those extremists, huh?

We are trying to sell our home and move to a larger city where we will not be locked into this kind of thing. One main thing I try to remember to soften the pain is that “Catholics” are not exempt from the very strong worldy influences of the “isms” afflicting society today. Relativism, individualism and secularism all play a part in our relation to our church. There is so much loss of faith at times, one can hardly see the real thing. And we must not forget the signs of the times…this present age we are living in of general Christian apostasy.

For who I am, and the life I must live to please Christ, I’m afraid I am not one to compromise. I try not to judge others, but when the opportunity presents itself, I must, in faithfulness, respond with truth. Sometimes it’s a very lonely life in this little town.

I study, pray, and read, go to CAF and listen to good Catholics rant and rave at each other, and S-M-I-L-E, somehow comforted that amidst the confusion and pain, the Church is still here - and it will always be here to speak to us through other solid Catholics and the saints who have gone before us.
 
The Church, which was founded on Jesus Christ, can never be overthrown. And though the Bible tells us perilous times will come, Jesus tells us not to be disturbed but to tell the truth always.

I encourage you, continue in the faith and live by faith.

Peace,
Ed
 
I do a lot of writing so I end up reading many blogs, news releases and editorials. One thing that has become blatently clear to me is that some of Catholicism’s worst critics are Catholics! I read one article declaring that extremists were trying to shut down free speech in reference to the debate of ND and Obama speaking at its commencement.

This article proceded to say that those darn pro-life Catholics (that’s me) are extremists and are following an antiquated religion by an “out of touch” pope.

I have been Catholic for almost 9 years now and was shocked to realize this author was a Notre Dame alum, claimed to be a good Catholic but was concerned about the extreme views held by many other Catholics.

It was like having cold water thrown in my face. This person was referring to me and almost every other Catholic I know!! In my writing, I get some pretty nasty comments from non- Catholics but just never expected it from one of my brothers or sisters.(the above example was not directed at me but to a general audience)

The question I have is this: have I been living in my post-confirmation bubble for years now or have times changed that much in 8 3/4 years?
Since when is following the teachings of the Church, including the respect for life, considered by other Catholics to be “extremist”? Are those of us who do that a minority?

This has profoundly shaken me in my spirit. Any insights or suggestions I am missing here?
A Group’s most voiciferous critics will genereally be members or ex-members, as they will know a lot more about the group than an outsider would. E.g. look up ex-Scientology.
 
I am not a catholic but I am married to one, know many and live half my life in a country where it is the established religion, so feel qualified to give an opinion on why you may be regarded as “extremist”.
By any comparison the views expressed in these forums are at the extreme end of the range of opinions found in most societies. That does not make them wrong of course. I happen to feel they are wrong, but that you are entitled to hold them. What distresses me is your determination to try to force these opinions on others and to influence public policy. For me religion is personal and should be kept so. No religion should seek political influence and if they do run the risk of being labelled “extremist” if the views advanced do not fit the mainstream.
 
.

After my “conversion,” we spent many years in an area of the country where truth was always taught (at least at our parish,) and the most beautiful spirituality existed; in other words, a full Catholicism enriched with all of the Tradition of our past. Our pastor was a true shepherd who protected us from the wolves and craziness that seemed to be abounding in other places. Well, we moved back home and much to my shock and surprise, it was hardly the same Church. I never appreciated just how protected we were. Your “cold water in the face” is an apt description.

We are now in a very liberal diocese, which over the years, has become a spiritual wasteland. We’ve lived here three years now and have seen liturgical abuses and scandal so much so, that we have changed parishes four times. Many Catholics here are not even in full Communion with the Church, although they regularily receive the sacraments. I was shocked and very angry at first, hurt, indignant and wanted to fix the entire thing. I have written letters to the priests and have sought counsel. Although teaching religious ed was my ministry for a long time, I no longer do that because of the watered down sacramental preparation most of the children get and I still shudder at the lack of catechises for both children and adults. I really must be one of those extremists, huh?

We are trying to sell our home and move to a larger city where we will not be locked into this kind of thing. One main thing I try to remember to soften the pain is that “Catholics” are not exempt from the very strong worldy influences of the “isms” afflicting society today. Relativism, individualism and secularism all play a part in our relation to our church. There is so much loss of faith at times, one can hardly see the real thing. And we must not forget the signs of the times…this present age we are living in of general Christian apostasy.

For who I am, and the life I must live to please Christ, I’m afraid I am not one to compromise. I try not to judge others, but when the opportunity presents itself, I must, in faithfulness, respond with truth. Sometimes it’s a very lonely life in this little town.

I study, pray, and read, go to CAF and listen to good Catholics rant and rave at each other, and S-M-I-L-E, somehow comforted that amidst the confusion and pain, the Church is still here - and it will always be here to speak to us through other solid Catholics and the saints who have gone before us.
Beautiful story… I think it is cool that you are seeking to move somewhere. Just tonight on the way home from Good Fri service, my husband and I were discussing moving south. The conversation then drifted to the fact that Catholicism is more rare in certain parts, If anyone is from the south and I am wrong,. let me know!!!

Happy blessed Easter,
Pam
 
I wouldn’t call you an extremist…devout and true Catholic yes…extremist no.

That being said I still think there are extremist Catholics. I’ve read some articles by some Catholics, who still think women shouldn’t sing or have any role in the church community as lay people! It upsets me because I love singing in church and hearing people say that I shouldn’t be allowed to sing…I almost feel robbed of my spirit. :blackeye:

I don’t know how to classify those people though…maybe extremist isn’t the right word…
This guy was using extremism in the context of Catholics who follow the teaching of the Church were extremists. He wasn’t referring to the old traditionalists particularly although I am sure they were included in the group.
 
What distresses me is your determination to try to force these opinions on others and to influence public policy. For me religion is personal and should be kept so. No religion should seek political influence and if they do run the risk of being labelled “extremist” if the views advanced do not fit the mainstream.
It is intersting that people who don’t like when Catholics go into the voting both as U.S. citizens and vote according to Catholic teaching, likely at odds with how they are voting, will then claim that the Catholic Church is exerting its power. Church Militant!! 😉
 
I am not a catholic but I am married to one, know many and live half my life in a country where it is the established religion, so feel qualified to give an opinion on why you may be regarded as “extremist”.
By any comparison the views expressed in these forums are at the extreme end of the range of opinions found in most societies. That does not make them wrong of course. I happen to feel they are wrong, but that you are entitled to hold them.

What distresses me is your determination to try to force these opinions on others and to influence public policy. For me religion is personal and should be kept so. No religion should seek political influence and if they do run the risk of being labelled “extremist” if the views advanced do not fit the mainstream.
Hello David,

Can you give an example of where force is being used? I would like to point out that Catholics who are labeled extremists do not have opinions as such. Opinions are simply ideas that may be held one moment and discarded at a later time. Catholics who follow Church teaching are not following opinions, but real truths, and they define right and wrong.

Pope Benedict said that religion should not be personal. This is not a suggestion or opinion.

Religious people do act on their beliefs and these beliefs go into the voting booth and are meant to be expressed. Simply going to buildings labeled churches or going to other Catholic buildings does not work. Our faith is meant to be shared. The Church proposes, not imposes.

And what is the mainstream and who constructs it? I think this is a question for everyone. Who makes you or me comfortable with a ‘mainstream’ created by others? And why is this mainstream important?

Simply saying what we believe is wrong but we’re entitled to those beliefs is no compliment. Indifference is wrong. It allows for those who do not have a firm foundation to be easily swayed and, ask yourself, to whose benefit? Radical individualism will not bring understanding between peoples or lead to a functioning society. It leads to people feeling isolated and disconnected from one another.

You seem to say you disagree, and you’re understanding, but then you give very clear, ‘extremist’ ideas about what religion should not do. Are your words meant to be acted on or not? Aren’t you also doing the same thing with your beliefs that you think Catholic extremists are doing with their’s?

Sometimes I think people who simply go with the flow of the mainstream do not examine where the flow comes from or where it’s going, and they see obedient Catholics living out what the Church teaches and then they say, Whoa! You should not be doing that! But a lot of them do not know where their own mainstream belief system came from. It’s unexamined. It’s pervasive, they know that, but I recommend everyone who is Agnostic examine the source and implications of their commonly held beliefs as well. You may find that the mainstream can be handing out views that are just as dogmatic as any Church teaching but it is done in a more subtle way.

I sincerely hope this helps.

Peace,
Ed
 
David,
Unfortunately your wish is actually come true. Many Catholics voted for pro-abortion congressmen, senators and president. Most of the Catholics in Congress vote for abortion.

Those of us who are pro-life but I do not see our views being imposed on anyone. On the contrary, aren’t the ones who willfully disobey the Church teachings more extreme than those who follow it?

Blessings,
Pam
 
I am not a catholic but I am married to one, know many and live half my life in a country where it is the established religion, so feel qualified to give an opinion on why you may be regarded as “extremist”.
By any comparison the views expressed in these forums are at the extreme end of the range of opinions found in most societies. That does not make them wrong of course. I happen to feel they are wrong, but that you are entitled to hold them. What distresses me is your determination to try to force these opinions on others and to influence public policy. For me religion is personal and should be kept so. No religion should seek political influence and if they do run the risk of being labelled “extremist” if the views advanced do not fit the mainstream.
For a people of faith, everything that encompasses their lives is firmly rooted in that faith; all attitudes and opinions are wholly influenced by it and will flow from it. It is the very essence of who we are. How can we possibly separate Church teaching about the evil of abortion from our politics when we enter the voting booth? That to me, would be the epitome of hypocrisy.
 
Our attitudes are so different that they can not be reconciled. I do not accept in any way that an individual must “follow” the instructions of another, whatever name you give him. The idea that kids must be forced to attend Church and are under the control of their parents long beyond the time when they are independant thinkers is just so wrong to me. Following laws made by elected Governments is different. I cannot accept that following, without question, selected passages from writings made 2000 years ago by people without our modern knowledge can provide a suitable way to live. More especially when those words have been translated many times, and at times chosen to fit a pre-determined attitude. The Bible is NOT the word of God. It is a collection of words from many men, some political, most selective. Surely we need to use everything we now have available and to re-interpret the messages. The basic message of Jesus is a thoroughly good one. To love and help one another is a great way to organise society. What is wrong is the importance placed upon the ritual, organisation and various instructions given by those who feel only they have the truth. To elevate these to the point where the basic message is obscured is crazy. When I visited the Church of the Holy Sepulcar in Jerusalem I was appalled by the nuns there, pushing and shoving non catholics away from the “rock”. What impressed me was the Coptic church. Very simple, unadorned by any decoration and direct to the message. In it’s understated way it ministered to the poor and needy and seemed much more like Jesus than any other version of Christianity present in that Church. It did not surprise me to learn that it is actually the “local” church, with a direct route back to the time of Jesus, and not distorted by those who took the word elsewhere and then made it fit the conditions they encountered.
So to many you do appear “extreme”, you certainly do to me!
Of course you should vote according to your own views, that’s your right. However you should also respect the views of the majority. It would also be nice to hear just a little humilty and an acceptance that maybe some others might sometimes be right, and you wrong. There are always three versions of a fact. Your opinion, my opinion and the actual truth. Rarely will either of the first two match the latter, although I doubt very much whether you will ever accept that, for as Catholics you so often claim to be the ONLY people who know the truth.
 
As Jesus Christ spoke to the learned teachers of His time who did not accept part of what He had to say, He remarked, “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?” John 3:12

The non-Catholic world feels that by constantly searching, some sort of truth will be found. But the Bible speaks of two truths, one literal and historic and one spiritual, about a God who is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and who interacted directly with His people.

God does not force us to love Him. Do you think you could force someone to love you? That is the heart of it. Jesus said, “If you love me keep my commandments.” The Catholic Church has a physical reality and an unfolding spiritual reality.

Relativism says there are many answers, or, the nihilistic, “I could be wrong.” Is that how anyone should think? Especially someone who has been given the truth by God? I don’t think so. The internet has helped to create an opinion culture. This is bad. There should be the right answers and the wrong answers – all we should do is choose to live according to the right answers. Period. End of story.

Jesus spoke of the pearl of great price and how a man sold all he had to obtain it. This is what Catholics have. It’s unfortunate that some think that by man’s wisdom this pearl will be found. But the Bible tells us men did look but did not find it through their wisdom.

Too many are caught up in modernism. But ask yourself, did knowledge or wisdom or enlightenment pour into anyone’s head the moment the calendar changed from the 20th to the 21st Century? The answer is no. But the media fills our heads with these images and ideas of the future or exalts men, who will die. Our lives are much more than this brief appearance on earth.

Peace,
Ed
 
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