Catholic vs Catholic

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AmberDale

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What am I supposed to do? I’ve been on these forums for a while, learning a lot. I’ve been recently baptized, and confimed Catholic.

My husbands aunt was raised Catholic, attended parochial school and the whole bit (she’s about 55 or 60)
The other day she was making comments on how the church just needs to let priests GET married, have women be ordained… She even said something about Pope Benedict XVI speaking out against homosexuals, but all the priests in our diocese are homosexual. and she kept going and going.
I wanted so bad to say something to stop it. I wanted to say if they did allow married priests, the current priest would not be permitted to marry. Married men becoming priests would have to take the vow of celibacy if his wife were to die. It wouldn’t help the sexual scandals because a good portion of molestors, molest there own kids anyway. I wanted to say that women have enough to do why would we even want to be a priestess. I wanted to say of all the people who should have been ordained, it would have been our Blessed Mother Mary. But She wasn’t, why? Because God’s plan for women did not involve being ordained. I wanted to spack her when she made the comment about our diocese.

Why didn’t I say something? I was scared maybe? I don’t know.
 
According to our priest, there are 100 ordained, married priests in the US.
 
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AmberDale:
Why didn’t I say something? I was scared maybe? I don’t know.
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Sometimes I do the same. For some reason or another I’ll clam up when confronted with an opportunity to really lay into someone. I honestly think that’s the Holy Spirit saying, “Chad, keep your mouth shut.”

A lot of times, we have the right thing to say, but we are so emotional, if we were to vocalize it, it would come out wrong. I know this is especially true for me. If I don’t regulate my emotions, I’d probably drive the other person farther away from the faith, which is not what God wants us to do.
 
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ChristopherMich:
According to our priest, there are 100 ordained, married priests in the US.
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If one is an ordained minister in the Anglican or Episcopal Church and he converts to Catholicism, it is sometimes allowed that he remain married AND continue his priestly duties. I don’t think it is the norm, but it is granted in some cases.
 
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ChristopherMich:
According to our priest, there are 100 ordained, married priests in the US.
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That is probably true. There are married priests in the United States - but the implication that these priests are not living chaste lives may NOT be true.

I think it is very difficult when one runs into Cafeteria Catholics - the ones that just want to pick and choose what to believe and what not to believe. Shoot, why stay a Catholic? Why not just become a Whatever Christian? However, I try to remember that what I may think is the way it should be does not mean that I do not bow to the authority of the Church. I need to remember that about every aspect of my life - that while I am a weak and willful woman, my ultimate goal is to become a resident of Heaven with Jesus Christ. So, you know what? If that means putting aside my petty wants and demands and practicing obedience as a spiritual axiom, then that’s what I am going to try and do to the best of my ability every day.

My latest way to end my prayers is to say “Lord, please help me be the woman I am supposed to be and not the woman I want to be, amen”.
 
If a married Anglican priest wants to convert, the Catholic Church will take him. That is why there are married priests.

As for women priests, we have 1 Cor 14, which would make it rather difficult for women to serve as priests:

As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

As for homosexual priests, Paul instructs the Corinthians:

I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

and

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

The word of God is what you should tell her.
 
Another poster made a statement today which sticks in my mind and could apply to your aunt and others whose orthodoxy is, shall we say, wobbly. . .

Those who are surrounded by people teaching, acting, and thinking in a certain way wind up thinking that all this is the RIGHT way.

Your aunt is about 10 years older than I am, just of an age to be in her early 20s when there was an AWFUL lot of “junk” mixed in with the authentically good teaching of Vatican II. She has spent the last 35 years or so having these “teachings” reinforced, probably a lot of the time by very appealing, lovable people. Gosh, it all SOUNDS so touchy-feely-Jesus loves us all and wants us to be happy–it’s no wonder that she’s bought into the great deception that has gripped so many Catholics today.

She has spent 35 years hearing authentic Catholic teaching mocked, insulted, vilified, condemned. How many people want to identify themselves with something that the majority of their family and friends think of with such contempt and hatred? She might have been uneasy now and then, but she consoles herself with the thought (inculcated over decades) that provided she just tries to do the best she can, God will love her and forgive her and she doesn’t have to do anything to change now, no penance, repentance, education etc.

You know how the OSAS feel–once saved, always saved. Your aunt and the CINOs or Cafeteria Catholics have a Catholic variant: OCAS. . .Once Catholic, Always Saved. They are sure that God will take into account all their good intentions and none of their actual thoughts, words and deeds when He judges them.

Lip-service to faith, works against faith–doesn’t matter. God only cares about having us “love each other” and “be happy”.

No WONDER we have been suffering with all the plagues of this wrong turn, from abortion to abuse of women and children to the imminent destruction of marriage and the family. . .
 
I was under the impression after Father David’s sermon that the 100 were ordained due to a shortage of priests. Is that not the case?

Does anyone know of this happening?
 
I am about ten years older than Aunty and I think that many people at our age will blow off any comments/teaching you might try to make. We have had both the times both sides of Vatican II and there are some things that experience tells us that just plain don’t fit life as we have led it. I an certainly not fanatic about women as priests, but I have met some that would be far better pastors than some of the men I have known. Pope says no so OK lets just wait and see. Married priests are no problem in my mind but I really don’t think getting married after ordination will solve any shortage. Maybe some permanent deacons who are already married would go on to the priesthood, but there aren’t enough of them to make a good kettle of soup. I really think God has new directions for us on the priesthood issue, but we haven’t felt the pinch hard enough yet to hear what He is telling us. One thing I am thinking is that we are so tied up in the facts/propositional items of our Faith that we are putting knowledge of God in place of relationship with Him. When relationship is strong vocations will be strong. Inordinate concerns for rules and regs crowds out relationship. Many of us older folk are criticized because we value relationship with God over theology. One can be a great and knowledgable theologion and still go to hell because the link of love with Our Lord has atrophied. Like Jesus told Martha when she complained, Mary has chosen the better part.
 
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ChristopherMich:
I was under the impression after Father David’s sermon that the 100 were ordained due to a shortage of priests. Is that not the case?

Does anyone know of this happening?
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As far as I know, the Latin Rite priests who are married came from another Rite. But if you have always been Latin Rite, then you aren’t married. I’m not sure though.
 
You know, she really is a great lady. But sometimes her way of thinking makes me go “what?”
I am only 23, am freshly Catholic. 🙂 Meaning just baptized this Easter. I don’t know everything, but I know what is being taught in the church. As of now, women are not to be ordained (which I agree with).
Priests are not to be married.
Now if the church changes some of these things, then I guess we go with it. But the way she says some things really bothers me. I do love her, she sometimes sounds like she is bordering on heresy.
 
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RonWI:
As for women priests, we have 1 Cor 14, which would make it rather difficult for women to serve as priests:

As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
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Does the Catholic Church still follow this rule of St. Paul at this point in time or has it essentially changed its teaching on this point. For example, at the local Catholic Church here, women give the readings all the time at Mass, and sometimes they even give the sermon (or is it called homily?). For example, a while ago, a (female) professor from the local college gave the sermon (or is it supposed to be called homily) on how women have been discriminated against by the Catholic Church for the last 2000 years and why the Church needs to change its male only hierarchical structure. I know at SSPX, women are not allowed to give the readings at Mass, but they have been excommunicated. And SSPX follows the rules before Vatican II on this question. So it looks like the Church that does follow the preVatican II rules and the Bible and St. Paul on this point (on women keeping silent in the Church) has been excommunicated by the Vatican.
 
I’m pretty old myself. I put “relationship with Jesus” above teachings for many many years. Then I realized that I could claim a relationship with Jesus and still do and believe anything I wanted - no boundaries, no foundation, no structure and no real belief system of any maturity. Aunty is probably the same. We like to think we are putting a real relationship above theology and actually we are childish in our behavior and immature in our faith - not childLIKE in our faith but childISH…two different things.

Lots of people who claim lots of stuff can end up in Hell. I think I will struggle to adhere to the teachings of Christ as handed and taught to me by my Church and leave judgement of who goes where to Jesus. I’m just not up to the task of being in charge of everything.
 
On the teachings of St. Paul - refer to the Catechism. Remember, we read scripture in the light of literal and the knowledge that there is no error in scripture - but NEITHER do we depend solely on scripture for the Truth.

I feel so sorry for those who see equal as meaning doing everything the same.
 
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chadwilliams:
Sometimes I do the same. For some reason or another I’ll clam up when confronted with an opportunity to really lay into someone. I honestly think that’s the Holy Spirit saying, “Chad, keep your mouth shut.”

A lot of times, we have the right thing to say, but we are so emotional, if we were to vocalize it, it would come out wrong. I know this is especially true for me. If I don’t regulate my emotions, I’d probably drive the other person farther away from the faith, which is not what God wants us to do.
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I’m with chadwilliams on this…
I’m usually not one to keep opinions to myself, but I’ve come to recognize the Holy Spirit’s influence on me…

When it comes to family relationships…I find the Spirit takes the words right out of my mouth more often than not - and I’ve come to the conclusion it’s because of the Honor Thy Father & Mother part of our faith. It’s almost as if He’s whispering in my ear, “I’ve got this one, sit back a while”.

Yet at other times I seem to find myself saying things I hadn’t even contemplated before in the same circle of family ties - so I figure He guided me in that.

I’m a cradle Catholic who has changed a lot since visiting these boards. Just keep praying for her and occasionally, print a couple good posts from here and hand them to her for conversation.

That’s what I’ve done with my husband (he’s 50, cradle catholic). I think it’s a generational thing for those Catholics - the first round after Vatican II and subject to the early abuses of the time. He’ll raise certain objections or arguments which I know I’ve read the answers to here on the board so I don’t say a word to him at the time, but later come to the boards, search the thread I’m looking for, find the appropriate post, print it and then I hand it to him saying, “By the way, here’s the response to that statement you made earlier. I’d be happy to discuss the subject after you’ve had a moment to read this.”

It’s worked rather well so far.
 
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alfredo:
For example, a while ago, a (female) professor from the local college gave the sermon (or is it supposed to be called homily) on how women have been discriminated against by the Catholic Church for the last 2000 years and why the Church needs to change its male only hierarchical structure. I know at SSPX, women are not allowed to give the readings at Mass, but they have been excommunicated. And SSPX follows the rules before Vatican II on this question. So it looks like the Church that does follow the preVatican II rules and the Bible and St. Paul on this point (on women keeping silent in the Church) has been excommunicated by the Vatican.
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Only a priest or deacon can give a homily at Mass. No layperson, man or woman, can give the homily.

As far as women being silent in church, and the SSPX not allowing women to do the readings my take on it is thus: They follow a liturgy where the priest is the only one speaking. So it isn’t that women aren’t allowed - NO ONE is allowed - in the sanctuary unless you are assisting the priest (altar boys, deacon, concelebrant, etc.)
 
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chadwilliams:
Only a priest or deacon can give a homily at Mass. No layperson, man or woman, can give the homily.
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What then would you call it, when the priest does not give a sermon, but in his place a lady steps up and gives a talk? Perhaps it is not a “homily”, but in any case, the rule of St. Paul and the Bible on women keeping silent in the Church has not been observed.
Even if you don’t think that this is right, still, ladies given the readings all the time in the local Catholic Churches here, and I haven’t seen any objection. In the excommunicated Churches, such as SSPX, ladies do not give talks or readings.
 
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alfredo:
In the excommunicated Churches, such as SSPX, ladies do not give talks or readings.
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Women also cover their head upon entering the Church. They are also not allowed to wear pants.
 
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