Catholic vs. Islamic attitudes towards sex

[inJESUS]

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Salaam/peace

Do you really believe , Jesus (p) will be happy with you because of this kind of posts ?

the question would rather be, what would Jesus do to Muhammad who equated Christian monks with satan’s community:" So you have decided to live in Satan’s community? If you wish to become a Christian monk, then enter their community openly, but if you are one of us then follow our sunna!’

Maybe it didn’t cross Muhammad’s mind that there are people who can live without sex and marriage for different pursuits in life.

 

[Reuben_J]

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We only have to look at the alarming divorce rate in the west to understand this point. e.g. the couple know each other for years, are intimate, live together and so on yet somehow this does not guarantee the success of the future marriage. Romance and love simply do not equal a everlasting bond between two people.

jannah.org/sisters/marr.html

Do you have any statistic to reflect on the statement? From what I see Muslim marriages seems to have higher divorce rate than most other non-Muslim ethnic groups.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/ Peace

… what would Jesus do to Muhammad who equated Christian monks with satan’s …QUOTE]

Will u pl. post the full Hadith with the link ?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/ Peace

… I am interested in comparing/contrasting as many views as possible of sex between Christianity and Islam. .

Celibacy

Celibacy was introduced into Christianity with the good intention of self discipline and rising above the calls of the flesh. Islam deals with natural instincts by controling them but not by their denial. Because it is against nature…

Quran refers to the matter of celibacy stating that it was not decreed by God: "Then in their wake (referring to Abraham and Noah) we followed them up with (others of) Our apostles;

We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy:

but the celibacy (and monasticism) which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them. (We commanded) only the seeking for the good pleasure of God. And they did not regard it as they should have done." (57:27)

…This relation between man and woman is considered by God as one of His signs and blessings:

“Amongst His signs is that He created consorts for you from amongst you, so that you may find tranquility with them, and (He) set love and compassion between you. Verily in this are signs for people who reflect. …” (30:21)

islamawareness.net/Sex/celibacy.html

 

[eichenb2]

You may not be exagerating. The issue is one that is a fundamental difference in Islam and Christianity.

In the Christian mind, only God can judge the contents of your heart. Further, God reserves vengence for himself AND that includes retribution for sins. We cannot, as Christains, start killing someone because they are sinners. If we did, we would all be dead.

Let’s look at fornication as an example. True, most Christians have a lax attitude for it. But, it is still a sin that can occure even to the most vigilant. Is one slip up, that you can repent for and learn from, worth death? Or exile? Excommunication?

The blatant hypocracy of allowing sinful men to execute God’s wrath is inherent in Islam. Trust me, they are not any less likely to sin than anyone else. The sins are just more hidden and rationalized in a different way.

For the sake of the Muslims subscribed to this threat, let me flesh this out, from an ex-Muslim perspective. Jesus Christ made a statement that is recorded in the Gospel of St. John 18:36 that "“My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world”. From this statement blossoms the Christian doctrine of the separation of Church and State. I am fond of saying that too much mixture of Church and State makes for bad law and bad religion. That being said, Christian societies are not amoral, in the sense that the state makes any law whatsoever and Christian meekly bow to it. It means that Christians, at every level of society, have to live within the moral confines of their religion. Since the concept of Natural Law is widely shared in western societies (Christian & non-Christian). In this way, the religion inform the culture without becoming a state church. I am aware that there have been abberations in Christian history, but that was cultural and not doctrinal. Islam’s legal principles and structure aims to be the state religion and law. Which means that apostasy in Islam means treason and therefore death. In a western context, it is a mortal sin that contrition, confession, and penance can handle. The state does not need to be burdened with matters of faith. Specific to Catholics, there is a Canon Law (Church law) and Secular law and there is a healthy and active dialog that takes place in western societies. Consequently, we can say in the US, that the Constitution is a “living document”. On the contrary, the “door of Ijtihad” was practically closed in the 13th Century CE. This has leave to the spiritual, cultural, and legal rigomortis now predominant in modern Islamic cultural. Christians do NOT and should NOT condone the morally abhorrant practices of the society at-large (like homosexual activity, abortion, racism, etc). However, the Bible teaches to leave room for the Wrath of God. We are preach faith, repentance, and morality to the whole world and let God handle the rest.

 

[eichenb2]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/ Peace

Celibacy

Celibacy was introduced into Christianity with the good intention of self discipline and rising above the calls of the flesh. Islam deals with natural instincts by controling them but not by their denial. Because it is against nature…

Quran refers to the matter of celibacy stating that it was not decreed by God: "Then in their wake (referring to Abraham and Noah) we followed them up with (others of) Our apostles;

We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy:

but the celibacy (and monasticism) which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them. (We commanded) only the seeking for the good pleasure of God. And they did not regard it as they should have done." (57:27)

…This relation between man and woman is considered by God as one of His signs and blessings:

“Amongst His signs is that He created consorts for you from amongst you, so that you may find tranquility with them, and (He) set love and compassion between you. Verily in this are signs for people who reflect. …” (30:21)

islamawareness.net/Sex/celibacy.html

From Wikipedia:
The Vatican stance is that celibacy is a reflection of life in Heaven, and a source of detachment from the material world, which aids in one’s relationship with God. Catholic priests are called to be espoused to the Church itself, and espoused to God, without overwhelming, exclusive commitments interfering with the relationship. Catholics understand celibacy as the calling of some, but not of all. Both married and celibate priests were common until the 13th century when celibacy became mandatory.

Usually, only celibate men are ordained as priests in the Latin Rite… Married men may become deacons, and married clergy who have converted from other denominations may become Catholic priests without becoming celbate. Mandatory priestly celibacy is not a doctrine of the Church but a rule or discipline. As such, it can change at any time. The Eastern Catholic Churches ordain both celibate and married men. All rites of the Catholic Church maintain the ancient tradition where marriage is not allowed after ordination. Men with transitory homosexual leanings may be ordained deacons following three years of prayer and chastity, but homosexual men who are sexually active, or those who have deeply rooted homosexual tendencies cannot be ordained
The Bible teaches celibacy to be honorable, but not required. The Apostle Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 7, “Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: ‘It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.’ But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.” (verses 1-2); “I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.” (verses 7-9); “I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord.” (verses 32-35)
So, the Bible from about 600 years before Muhammad does NOT teach that celibacy is an excess! Hmmm. I man who had regular intercourse with, at least, 11 women, married and consummated with a 9 year old, and allowed RAPE of female war captives is your criteria for sexual mores???

 

[ralphinal]

For the sake of the Muslims subscribed to this threat, let me flesh this out, from an ex-Muslim perspective. Jesus Christ made a statement that is recorded in the Gospel of St. John 18:36 that "“My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world”. From this statement blossoms the Christian doctrine of the separation of Church and State. I am fond of saying that too much mixture of Church and State makes for bad law and bad religion. That being said, Christian societies are not amoral, in the sense that the state makes any law whatsoever and Christian meekly bow to it. It means that Christians, at every level of society, have to live within the moral confines of their religion. Since the concept of Natural Law is widely shared in western societies (Christian & non-Christian). In this way, the religion inform the culture without becoming a state church. I am aware that there have been abberations in Christian history, but that was cultural and not doctrinal. Islam’s legal principles and structure aims to be the state religion and law. Which means that apostasy in Islam means treason and therefore death. In a western context, it is a mortal sin that contrition, confession, and penance can handle. The state does not need to be burdened with matters of faith. Specific to Catholics, there is a Canon Law (Church law) and Secular law and there is a healthy and active dialog that takes place in western societies. Consequently, we can say in the US, that the Constitution is a “living document”. On the contrary, the “door of Ijtihad” was practically closed in the 13th Century CE. This has leave to the spiritual, cultural, and legal rigomortis now predominant in modern Islamic cultural. Christians do NOT and should NOT condone the morally abhorrant practices of the society at-large (like homosexual activity, abortion, racism, etc). However, the Bible teaches to leave room for the Wrath of God. We are preach faith, repentance, and morality to the whole world and let God handle the rest.

This is a very good post. I wiould point out that the separation of Church and state, as understood in America, is NOT a Christian concept. Rather, it was born from the real world experiances of Thomas Jefferson, who noted that each state had a dominant faith system, and that group was passing laws to torment the smaller groups.

Jefferson, as was so many of the founding fathers of the United States, would not be seen as an orthodox Christian.

 

[eichenb2]

This is a very good post. I wiould point out that the separation of Church and state, as understood in America, is NOT a Christian concept. Rather, it was born from the real world experiances of Thomas Jefferson, who noted that each state had a dominant faith system, and that group was passing laws to torment the smaller groups.

Jefferson, as was so many of the founding fathers of the United States, would not be seen as an orthodox Christian.

I guess I was simply saying that Christianity does not seek a Theocracy. The opposite is true of Islam.

 

[ralphinal]

I guess I was simply saying that Christianity does not seek a Theocracy. The opposite is true of Islam.

Now that is an understatement. Islam does not seelk a theocracy as much as demand it.

We have had American Muslims (those born here and who are citizens) say that they would be in favor of overthrowing the US Constitution in favor of Shiaria law.

 

[inJESUS]

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Salaam/ Peace
inJESUS;4603473:

… what would Jesus do to Muhammad who equated Christian monks with satan’s …QUOTE]

Will u pl. post the full Hadith with the link ?

).
وعن أبي ذر قال : دخل على رسول الله رجل يقال له عكاف بن بشر التميمي فقال له رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : ( يا عكاف هل لك من زوجة ؟ قال : لا ، وقال : ولا جارية ؟ قال : لا ، قال : وأنت موسر بخير قال : وأنا موسر بخير ، قال : أنت إذن من إخوان الشياطين ، لو كنت من النصارى كنت من رهبانهم ، إن من سنتنا النكاح

مجمع الزوائد للبيهقي ، كتاب النكاح ، باب البحث على النكاح ، (4/250)

Am sorry since many Islamic writings are not found in English.

 

[eichenb2]

Muslim Woman;4604195:

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Salaam/ Peace

).
وعن أبي ذر قال : دخل على رسول الله رجل يقال له عكاف بن بشر التميمي فقال له رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : ( يا عكاف هل لك من زوجة ؟ قال : لا ، وقال : ولا جارية ؟ قال : لا ، قال : وأنت موسر بخير قال : وأنا موسر بخير ، قال : أنت إذن من إخوان الشياطين ، لو كنت من النصارى كنت من رهبانهم ، إن من سنتنا النكاح

مجمع الزوائد للبيهقي ، كتاب النكاح ، باب البحث على النكاح ، (4/250)

Am sorry since many Islamic writings are not found in English.

Reported from Abi Dharr; he said that a man entered upon the Muhammad. He was called 'Akaaf
Bin Bishr At-Tamimi. Muhammad said to him, O 'Akaaf, do you have a wife? 'Akaaf said No. How
about a slave-girl? 'Akaaf said no. Muhammad then said you are commanded to the good and
'Akaaf said that he is command to the good. Muhammad said that 'Akaaf’s permission was from satan, even if he was a Christian Monk. Muhammad that if
'Akaaf wanted to follow Muhammad’s example, he should marry.
(from the book Baihaqi’s Collection of Marriage, Book of Marriage, Chapter of Research
Marriage)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/ Peace

…Muhammad said that 'Akaaf’s permission was from satan, even if he was a Christian Monk.

the way inJesus posted the allegation , I thought Prophet (p) said : all Christian Monks are Satan .

Holy Quran tells us that there was no instruction for Monks to be unmarried in their holy book. May be , Prophet (p) reminded people of that & encourgaed them to get married . It’s easy for people to stay away from committing sins if get married.

 

[ckempston]

Anybody know if there is an official position in Islam regarding different forms of birth control?

 

[eichenb2]

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Salaam/ Peace

the way inJesus posted the allegation , I thought Prophet (p) said : all Christian Monks are Satan .

Holy Quran tells us that there was no instruction for Monks to be unmarried in their holy book. May be , Prophet (p) reminded people of that & encourgaed them to get married . It’s easy for people to stay away from committing sins if get married.

قال : أنت إذن من إخوان الشياطين ، لو كنت من النصارى كنت من رهبانهم ، إن من سنتنا النكاح

It, certainly, does not say that all monks are Shayaateen (Devils). I do not recall what inJesus said, though. Let’s see if I can refine my translation. “He (Muhammad) said he were called by the brothers of Satan. If you were a Christian, you would be from their Monks; even though our Sunnah (example or tradition) is marriage.” The bottom line is that Islam does not condone monasticism. Whereas, Christianity not only condones it but recommends it. I have already pointed out several Bible verses that support this. Here is the interesting part! There is a an entire Bible (Codex Alexandrinus) that is dated from the year 440 CE. This is about 150 years before Muhammad’s birth. The Codex contains the very verses that recommend celibacy and this is what Christians believed. So, Muhammad, who would not be born for ~150 years says that Christian holy books did not allow monasticism. As I have described, this is NOT TRUE. Muhammad’s claim, then, is patently FALSE. I shouldn’t be suprised, though, Christ said that FALSE PROPHETS would arrise.

 

[inJESUS]

the way inJesus posted the allegation , I thought Prophet (p) said : all Christian Monks are Satan .