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JillianRose
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GKC
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I know nothing of Bishop Hanson. The gracious Katherine is a hoot. I suggest not listening if she speaks. Looking is trial enough.
GKC
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GKC
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Oldtimer_7
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Jon, you are entirely right about the risk of understanding Jesus’ laws as antinomian. I will point to the Small Cathechism in which Luther enlarges on the Ten Commandments, using them as the basis for showing how to live the Law of Love. Romans 10:4 can be read as Jesus being the end of the Law, or it can be understood as Jesus being the fulfillment of the Law. Andrew, I agree with you. We do practice open communion in the ELCA and you would be most welcome to join us.As I understand it, in the Orthodox church, only the members share the Lamb of God, while the rest of the bread is blessed and shared with visitors. This seems to be very hospitable to me.
lol. Christ’s words transend east and west. Christ is truly and completely present in the Eucharist.How very Eastern
Jon
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hn160
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My wife and I were in the ELCA until recently, I never understood open communion,especially with non-Lutherans such as Calvinist. The reason for closed communion is that it presupposes that when we are at the altar rail that we are of like mind in doctrine. It is said that Lutheran pulpits and Lutheran altars for Lutherans only. The Lutheran theologian Charles Porterfield Krauth would turn over in his grave if he knew what was going on in the ELCA. Also I never would receive communion from a woman pastor because I felt that they were not called to the office of a pastor. I also seen a case where the local synod rammed down a congregation throat a woman pastor. When the church refused the first one, they waited a long time for a pastor until they consented to take one. The same is probably with homosexual ordination.
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gus
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If ever there is a re-unifation with Rome it will be one of the consesevitive Lutheran Synads.
Probably before and OC CC
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hn160
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We believe that the Body of Christ is truly presence in the bread and the Blood of Christ is truly presence on the wine of Holy Communion but we do not try to explain it, it is a mystery to us. Catholics try to explain it by using ancient Greek philosophy ( Aristotle ) by the use of accidents. So where is the difference?The biggest and most important difference,The Real Presence…
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Oldtimer_7
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HN, I pray that you have found a congregation that will nurture you spiritually and help you use your gifts to the glory of God. I understand your concerns, but have to point out that the qualities of the priest are not important in God coming to you in the Eucharist. If you will check, you will find that both Lutheran and Catholic theology is in agreement on this point. Jesus left us with no doctrinal litmus test for receiving Eucharist. In fact, Judas was present at the Last Supper, so he even shared it with an avowed enemy.
As for ramming a candidate down the throat of a congregation, I have sat on call committee. One of the things that a pastoral candidate is told is that it is a mistake to take a call if the vote is less than 70% in favor. The vetting process is one of the most useful things that the synod does for a congregation. Candidates are reported to a congregation as soon as they are vetted. This keeps us from the situation of bad pastors being passed from one synod to the next. Yes, if all the candidates happened to be women, gay, or red-headed, it might look like the synod trying to force acceptance, but they can only send what they receive. The congregation always has the responsibility to accept or reject the candidates. For us, the biggest concern was the salary and benefits.
Even so, the average time for receiving a new pastor is about two years. This means some congregations may go even longer. We were lucky at my parish, we went less than a year, and the local LC-MS congregation only took about six months.
As for ramming a candidate down the throat of a congregation, I have sat on call committee. One of the things that a pastoral candidate is told is that it is a mistake to take a call if the vote is less than 70% in favor. The vetting process is one of the most useful things that the synod does for a congregation. Candidates are reported to a congregation as soon as they are vetted. This keeps us from the situation of bad pastors being passed from one synod to the next. Yes, if all the candidates happened to be women, gay, or red-headed, it might look like the synod trying to force acceptance, but they can only send what they receive. The congregation always has the responsibility to accept or reject the candidates. For us, the biggest concern was the salary and benefits.
Even so, the average time for receiving a new pastor is about two years. This means some congregations may go even longer. We were lucky at my parish, we went less than a year, and the local LC-MS congregation only took about six months.
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Stilldreamn
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Yesterday evening I had the pleasure of attending a program hosted by one of our local Catholic churches exploring the shared heritage of the Catholic and Lutheran faiths. It was a learning experience for members of both congregations. Thr program was initially expected to be about one hour, but instead, lasted for nearly two! If there had been a bit of beer, it probably would have lasted even longer
One of the differences that was revealed lies in sanctification it seems. Fr. John commented on Lutheran pessimism and contrasted it with the Catholic belief. As I understood it, the Lutheran view is we become more Christlike when our own sinful nature becomes lessened (think of the “me” getting smaller and smaller, allowing Christ to be more visible through us), and the Catholic belief that there is a spark of goodness that grows in response to the working of the Holy Spirit. Forgive my poor explanation if this is unclear. Pastor and Priest could have picked at this subject all evening, I think.
What struck me is that in spite of these differences, I saw Christ’s love in the faces of all who were present. There is unity in His love.
One of the differences that was revealed lies in sanctification it seems. Fr. John commented on Lutheran pessimism and contrasted it with the Catholic belief. As I understood it, the Lutheran view is we become more Christlike when our own sinful nature becomes lessened (think of the “me” getting smaller and smaller, allowing Christ to be more visible through us), and the Catholic belief that there is a spark of goodness that grows in response to the working of the Holy Spirit. Forgive my poor explanation if this is unclear. Pastor and Priest could have picked at this subject all evening, I think.
What struck me is that in spite of these differences, I saw Christ’s love in the faces of all who were present. There is unity in His love.
J
Jeff77
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Absolutely, brother. We believe, without a doubt that we receive the True Body and Blood of our Lord.
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Swiss_Guy
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Oh sorry, I meant that might be an acceptable view from a Catholic perspective. I wasn’t saying Lutherans believed in just a “spiritual presence” in their Communion.
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