S
SeanCCR
Guest
(My extended family has been having an extended Protestant vs. Catholic debate. After about a month of being a bystander in the e-mal chain this was my response. I am hoping others in similar discussions find something beneficial in it. Also, if I am theologically off base on anything please let me know. Thanks)
Dear (redacted)
Please don’t take anything I say personally. When I heard you two… fell away from the Church I was sad and disappointed, but at the same time I was also glad you were taking the life’s journey so seriously. I respect a bold decision, even if I feel it’s the wrong one. The worst thing a person could do is treat the question of God\heaven\hell with indifference (God spits out the lukewarm). Furthermore, I don’t know the crosses you bare, so what right do I have to approach you with a condescending tone? St. Francis once said if anyone else was given the same graces he received they would be a greater man; I feel the same way about myself and so I am more worried about my own failures then looking for yours. I also remind myself that Paul murdered Christians and St. Augustine was committing sexual sins IN Churches late in their 20s and in the end they both became saints. So who really knows the path God has for you? I sure as heck don’t know! But I do want to express my thoughts on all that has been said so far. Take what good you can find in it.
I chose not to engage in this dialog on the Biblical lines because I don’t believe your objections are Biblical. It’s more a spiritual block (like a mental block). I have come to this conclusion not just with listening to you, but also from talking to other Christians throughout the years. One example, I have constantly heard how literally Protestants take the Bible (as opposed to Catholics), but then John 6 comes around and all of a sudden Jesus is speaking figuratively. It seems awfully convenient the passages that are most explicitly Catholic suddenly become some sort of figure of speech. If Jesus was ever absolutely clear anywhere in the Bible it was in John 6 (constantly repeating himself); and when people walked away (supposedly misunderstanding the message) He doesn’t stop them to clear up any misconceptions (He can read minds so he knows what they are thinking). It just doesn’t make sense to me to not take him literally about the Eucharist. A second example, I have also heard Protestants cite the passage “Peter you are rock and on this rock I build my Church” and say since the word “rock” is two different words (little rock vs. big rock) Jesus was not talking about the creation of a literal Church built upon Peter but rather a spiritual Church built upon some vague sort of faith he had in Christ. But in the original translation (Greek) no distinction is made (same word twice). Therefore the message could not have been clearer and the Protestant teaching falls apart. Naively, I brought it up with Protestants and figured that would be the end of that line of argument, but without fail they ignored my point. That specific teaching of Protestantism is built on a TRANSLATION of the Bible and not the original text and that doesn’t seem to matter. I have many more examples, but those two stood out. Overtime I just realized it was not the text of the Bible that is the stumbling block for many fallen away Catholics, but a mental or spiritual block on certain teachings of the Church and therefore there was a tendency to twist passages’ meanings and selectively ignoring others in order to come to a predetermined conclusion. Therefore, I don’t see how to overcome that obstacle without addressing some of the bigger issues first.
There is a misconception with the [redacted family name] kids that we are cradle Catholics. It might appear we took the faith of our parents blindly and just ran with it. That isn’t exactly the case. Some of you might not remember but my grandpa (on our Mom’s side) was a pastor to a Protestant church. To a kid, when two religions are possible (mom Protestant\dad Catholic) then ALL religions are possible. I vividly remember being younger and tossing aside the Catholic faith and “starting from scratch”, but I could never get too far from the Church. Something always pulled me back. I would always try to examine humanity through God’s perspective (who HE is and who we are in relation to Him) and it just made sense within the context of the Catholic Church. Too many things happened in my life not to believe in Christianity (Jesus), so I used this one fact as a starting point in my quest to understand my faith: Jesus is God and He came to earth as a human man to rescue us and then died for our sins. Using reason, I built up from that singular fact and these were some of my realizations:
Dear (redacted)
Please don’t take anything I say personally. When I heard you two… fell away from the Church I was sad and disappointed, but at the same time I was also glad you were taking the life’s journey so seriously. I respect a bold decision, even if I feel it’s the wrong one. The worst thing a person could do is treat the question of God\heaven\hell with indifference (God spits out the lukewarm). Furthermore, I don’t know the crosses you bare, so what right do I have to approach you with a condescending tone? St. Francis once said if anyone else was given the same graces he received they would be a greater man; I feel the same way about myself and so I am more worried about my own failures then looking for yours. I also remind myself that Paul murdered Christians and St. Augustine was committing sexual sins IN Churches late in their 20s and in the end they both became saints. So who really knows the path God has for you? I sure as heck don’t know! But I do want to express my thoughts on all that has been said so far. Take what good you can find in it.
I chose not to engage in this dialog on the Biblical lines because I don’t believe your objections are Biblical. It’s more a spiritual block (like a mental block). I have come to this conclusion not just with listening to you, but also from talking to other Christians throughout the years. One example, I have constantly heard how literally Protestants take the Bible (as opposed to Catholics), but then John 6 comes around and all of a sudden Jesus is speaking figuratively. It seems awfully convenient the passages that are most explicitly Catholic suddenly become some sort of figure of speech. If Jesus was ever absolutely clear anywhere in the Bible it was in John 6 (constantly repeating himself); and when people walked away (supposedly misunderstanding the message) He doesn’t stop them to clear up any misconceptions (He can read minds so he knows what they are thinking). It just doesn’t make sense to me to not take him literally about the Eucharist. A second example, I have also heard Protestants cite the passage “Peter you are rock and on this rock I build my Church” and say since the word “rock” is two different words (little rock vs. big rock) Jesus was not talking about the creation of a literal Church built upon Peter but rather a spiritual Church built upon some vague sort of faith he had in Christ. But in the original translation (Greek) no distinction is made (same word twice). Therefore the message could not have been clearer and the Protestant teaching falls apart. Naively, I brought it up with Protestants and figured that would be the end of that line of argument, but without fail they ignored my point. That specific teaching of Protestantism is built on a TRANSLATION of the Bible and not the original text and that doesn’t seem to matter. I have many more examples, but those two stood out. Overtime I just realized it was not the text of the Bible that is the stumbling block for many fallen away Catholics, but a mental or spiritual block on certain teachings of the Church and therefore there was a tendency to twist passages’ meanings and selectively ignoring others in order to come to a predetermined conclusion. Therefore, I don’t see how to overcome that obstacle without addressing some of the bigger issues first.
There is a misconception with the [redacted family name] kids that we are cradle Catholics. It might appear we took the faith of our parents blindly and just ran with it. That isn’t exactly the case. Some of you might not remember but my grandpa (on our Mom’s side) was a pastor to a Protestant church. To a kid, when two religions are possible (mom Protestant\dad Catholic) then ALL religions are possible. I vividly remember being younger and tossing aside the Catholic faith and “starting from scratch”, but I could never get too far from the Church. Something always pulled me back. I would always try to examine humanity through God’s perspective (who HE is and who we are in relation to Him) and it just made sense within the context of the Catholic Church. Too many things happened in my life not to believe in Christianity (Jesus), so I used this one fact as a starting point in my quest to understand my faith: Jesus is God and He came to earth as a human man to rescue us and then died for our sins. Using reason, I built up from that singular fact and these were some of my realizations:
- Everything Jesus did was physical: He was conceived. He was born. He was baptized in water. He ate. He drank. He laid hands on the sick. He died a physical death. He physically rose from the dead and ate again. Jesus was joining himself to the physical world and transformed it; He didn’t distance Himself from it, so it only makes sense that He would create a physical Church on earth and not just a vague notion that the Holy Spirit would guide all Christians. The physical nature of the Sacraments reinforces this reality (water, bread, wine, rings, oil, etc.). The apex of this humble physical union with man is the Eucharist. It is not just the way He administers to man (baptism, marriage, anointing of the sick, etc.) but His very presence. Removing it doesn’t seem consistent with everything else He has done on earth and it would seem to me a story without a climax.
I know what you mean about getting bogged down with Bible verses. It becomes a dueling verses match that usually goes nowhere, doesn’t it? We can only explain the best we can and then leave it in God’s hands. If it does nothing more than show your relatives that you know your stuff and that they may have somethings wrong, it will have done quite a bit. Getting into such discussions with family is like treading in a minefield. Sometimes it’s not worth it if it damages relationships. I say this only as a precaution not that I think that’s what you’re doing. Just let them know that through it all you love them and are there for them. That’s what matters the most to family.