Catholic vs Protestant Spirituality: Lets compare faith walks

[De_Maria]

And many deny that we are even Christians.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I have always thought that reasonable protestants would likely agree with 75-80% of what is found in the CCC.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

You have a great attitude.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Unfortunately whether in Catholic or non-Catholic conversation about other faiths the conversation is often not too flattering.

Umm, yes, unfortunately that would be true.

I would agree with @De_Maria, though I rarely hear protestants speak of Catholics as brothers and sisters in Christ.

It was only after coming to CAF that I ever heard that NC’s were brothers and sisters in Christ. I often bring it up among friends and most are leary that I know what I am talking about. There are Catholics here who don’t exhibit that at all though. I have a Catholic priest and a Deacon who are personal friends and they make it abundantly clear that I am a brother in Christ to them.

 

[Wannano]

And many deny that we are even Christians.

But DeMaria, you sometimes give me the feeling that you feel that way about us too.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Same here – affiliate yourself with any fundie type Christians and be prepared for constant nonsensical accusations and attacks on the RCC. And this is far from an exaggeration on my behalf, it has happened quite often.

 

[Justin_Mary]

Did you not come to this realization when this is explicitly taught by the Catholic Church? That is peculiar. Or what are you questioning?

I’m questioning how someone outside the Church reach that level of spiritual maturity.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Unfortunately whether in Catholic or non-Catholic conversation about other faiths the conversation is often not too flattering.

That is true. But I don’t see it as much, Protestant to Protestant. I do see it some. For example, Jehovahs and Mormons seem to be on the bottom of the Protestant totem.

Jehovahs and Mormons have not much in common with the rest of “Protestants.”

 

[GKMotley]

Among many Anglicans it would be. Others, not so much.

 

[Wannano]

Same here – affiliate yourself with any fundie type Christians and be prepared for constant nonsensical accusations and attacks on the RCC. And this is far from an exaggeration on my behalf, it has happened quite often.

I believe you.

 

[Wannano]

De_Maria:

Did you not come to this realization when this is explicitly taught by the Catholic Church? That is peculiar. Or what are you questioning?

I’m questioning how someone outside the Church reach that level of spiritual maturity.

I would sure appreciate if you would elaborate.

 

[Tommy999]

Not disagreeing with you or excusing that kind of behavior, Lenten. That’s unfortunate and I wish people were more considerate, especially of fellow Christians. Sometimes when there is an overwhelming majority of one religion in a region, I think a kind of religious “bullying” or “ganging up” takes place, which I think is wrong regardless of who is doing it.

I wonder if similar behavior takes place in majority Catholic areas where Protestants are in the minority. I studied a year in Spain when I was in college and experienced a little of that, but I always tried to be respectful in return.

At the end of year there, some of my Spanish Catholic friends and acquaintances affectionately told me I was more Catholic than them. I considered that a compliment.

 

[De_Maria]

But DeMaria, you sometimes give me the feeling that you feel that way about us too.

I won’t deny it. I used to believe that all who called themselves Christian were Christian. But, I don’t believe we can self designate ourselves, anymore. We can call ourselves Christian, but what does God say about it?

1. Many of the Protestants with whom I speak, deny the validity of Baptism. But, Baptism is the way we become Christians.

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. …

I know that many Protestants are baptized and that the Catholic Church accepts Protestant baptism. But there is a proviso which I’m not sure is properly understood by most.

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon.57 In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize58 , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.59

What do you think? Do you think that most Protestants baptize with the will to do what the Catholic Church does when she baptizes?

a. The Church baptizes to incorporate one into the body of Christ.
b. Protestants baptize to…? What?

1. The Catholic Church Teaches that God is love and that we do good to our fellow man because of our love for God.

I have actually heard Protestants deride the idea that love is necessary for salvation. TULIPed, on this board, excluded.

Can you really be considered a Christian if you refuse to obey the commandment to love one another?

1. There’s an old saying. The Mass makes the Christian. Can you be a Christian if you deny the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ? Can you be a Christian if you refuse to assemble with the Church when we worship God the way that He wants to be worshipped? See Heb 25:31-46.

Sooo, yeah. I think you’ve pegged me right.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

But DeMaria, you sometimes give me the feeling that you feel that way about us too.

I won’t deny it. I used to believe that all who called themselves Christian were Christian. But, I don’t believe we can self designate ourselves, anymore. We can call ourselves Christian, but what does God say about it?

1. Many of the Protestants with whom I speak, deny the validity of Baptism. But, Baptism is the way we become Christians.

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. …

I know that many Protestants are baptized and that the Catholic Church accepts Protestant baptism. But there is a proviso which I’m not sure is properly understood by most.

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon.57 In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize58 , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.59

What do you think? Do you think that most Protestants baptize with the will to do what the Catholic Church does when she baptizes?

a. The Church baptizes to incorporate one into the body of Christ.
b. Protestants baptize to…? What?

1. The Catholic Church Teaches that God is love and that we do good to our fellow man because of our love for God.

I have actually heard Protestants deride the idea that love is necessary for salvation. TULIPed, on this board, excluded.

Can you really be considered a Christian if you refuse to obey the commandment to love one another?

1. There’s an old saying. The Mass makes the Christian. Can you be a Christian if you deny the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ? Can you be a Christian if you refuse to assemble with the Church when we worship God the way that He wants to be worshipped? See Heb 25:31-46.

Sooo, yeah. I think you’ve pegged me right.

One admirable thing about you is your ability to cover a lot of ground in one discourse!

Suffice it to say that I recognize you and I are on the opposite sides of the totem pole. We may disagree on what baptism really is…and what constitutes true worship but I see two things we totally agree on.

1. We can call ourselves Christian but what does God say about it? We share that concern!
2. Can you really be a Christian if we are not obedient to the commandment to love one another? I’m taking it that we both agree that we cannot.

For me that sums up Christianity. “By this shall all men know you are my disciples, if you have love one to another.”

 

[Wannano]

De_Maria:

Did you not come to this realization when this is explicitly taught by the Catholic Church? That is peculiar. Or what are you questioning?

I’m questioning how someone outside the Church reach that level of spiritual maturity.

Are you saying you can’t understand how a non-Catholic can reach that level of maturity?

 

[Justin_Mary]

Yes.

What exactly did Jesus mean unless you eat (gnaw) the flesh of the Son of Man you will have no life in you.

 

[Wannano]

Yes.

What exactly did Jesus mean unless you eat (gnaw) the flesh of the Son of Man you will have no life in you.

I am not an apologist but rather just a common bloke. I can tell you how I see the options that have developed. If I am inaccurate I am certainly open to correction. Either Jesus was talking physically/literally or He was talking spiritually/metaphorically. The Catholic Church believes He was talking literally and that is why the bread and wine become the literal and physical flesh and blood through the process of Transubstantiation. Some non-Catholic churches consider His Real Presence to be in the elements although the elements do not become Christ physically. If Jesus was talking spiritually He was indicating He was the Bread come down from heaven. Our spiritual soul is fed by consuming this Bread by learning of Him, believing in Him and appropriating His message of the Cross, His death and Resurrection into our heart and soul and every fabric of our being and accepting His plan for the eternal salvation of our soul.

I am sure I have given a fairly elementary coverage of the viewpoints that exist.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Yup, I think Pastors and elders are very influential, Tommy – if they are anti-something then others will follow.

That goes for both sides. I remember starting RCIA, and one of their instructors, who is a great Catholic-Christian that i respect, made a comment about “our lost brothers and sisters in Christ”, talking about Protestants - and it infuriated me. A kind-hearted protestant minister introduced me to Jesus over the phone in 2003. I think he is anything but lost and i plan on seeing him in heaven. And I hate the constant slamming of one side or the other. Let’s talk and unpack doctrine and agree or disagree, but also realize we are headed to the same place, just on different boats. And if I seem critical of non Catholic Churches its’ only because i feel the RCC is a bigger and more equipped boat. But I know I have to watch myself closely as it’s easy to fall into the unproductive back and forth.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Long before I became Catholic, I believed both were true. That you can eat his flesh and drink his blood in Holy Communion and through ingesting His words.

 

[De_Maria]

I am not an apologist but rather just a common bloke. I can tell you how I see the options that have developed. If I am inaccurate I am certainly open to correction. Either Jesus was talking physically/literally or He was talking spiritually/metaphorically. The Catholic Church believe …

No, God’s logic is both/and. Jesus was speaking literally/physically, as well as metaphorically about spiritual realities.

God has it both ways.

Either/or logic is what gets Protestants in trouble. Along with their confusion of spiritual realities with the metaphorical expressions which are used to express them.

Spiritual does not mean metaphorical. A spiritual truth is more concrete than a literal truth. Remember:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

He was talking literally and that is why the bread and wine become the literal and physical flesh and blood through the process of Transubstantiation.

Sounds as though you believe this. Good. That was my biggest hurdle.