Catholic vs Protestant Spirituality: Lets compare faith walks

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael16
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Really? Even though I often, if I get the impression right; that I attack you guys and talk down to you guys?
 
Michael16 said:
Really? Even though I often, if I get the impression right; that I attack you guys and talk down to you guys?
Click to expand...
Something that is stressed often and emphatically in my faith community is that if we do not extend forgiveness to our fellow man we cannot expect to receive forgiveness from God either.
 
I agree. It’s what Our Lord taught us. It’s kind of like with my ex wife. I struggled for years to forgive her for what she did to me and it was only after her death; could I truly forgive her and realize that I owe her gratitude for the good she did me and for bearing our sons.
 
I can see in your response that I got the impression right. Ugh.

And as for my plentiful apologies: It’s how I grew up. My family was explosively emotional while I was growing up. A Dad with serious anger issues and a drinking problem and a Mom who blew up in torrential yelling sob storms when she gets upset.

I learned quickly to apologize and apologize quick.
 
Last edited:
If we are going to apologize it should be because we mean it sincerely…not just to get out of a tight spot. I am sorry if that is treading on your toes!! 😆
 
No, you’re right. When I apologize, I mean it. No worries, you’re not stepping on my toes.
 
I tried to induce a little humor by giving a quick apology as well. Have a good day!
 
Michael16 said:
Were you aware that Morning and Evening Prayer comes from the Catholic Liturgy of the Hours?
Click to expand...
Yes, I am very aware of this. Luther was very pious in his personal life and this carried over into his ministry. As I have stated in the past, Luther’s was a very conservative reformation.

With regard to your personal devotions, I agree, there can be much to learn from the Church fathers.
 
Hodos said:
40.png
Michael16:
Were you aware that Morning and Evening Prayer comes from the Catholic Liturgy of the Hours?
Click to expand...
Yes, I am very aware of this. Luther was very pious in his personal life and this carried over into his ministry. As I have stated in the past, Luther’s was a very conservative reformation.

With regard to your personal devotions, I agree, there can be much to learn from the Church fathers.
Click to expand...
Cranmer’s Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer, and Compline are also all based on the Liturgy of the hours. He reduced the number so that the laity could fully participate in them offered publicly daily.
 
Michael16 said:
I sounded arrogant. It’s just how I feel about the whole Sola Scriptura thing. To me, it just feels like that people put airs on themselves in their interpretation of Scripture. Like they are their own authority in this regard.
Click to expand...
Just to correct one thing about Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura does not mean interpreting scripture in a vacuum. Scripture is always interpreted within the community of Christ. When you read Luther’s writings for example, he was never only insisting upon his own authority. He constantly quoted the Church Fathers. So I don’t want you to walk away with the idea that the Sola Scriptura teaches that interpretation is done outside of the Christian community. What Sola Scriptura recognizes is that man is sinful, and that sometimes even the community can get doctrine wrong. Scripture is the means by which we ensure our doctrine is faithful. It is the norm by which we test the faithfulness of doctrine. I hope that clarifies a few things.
 
I’d like to pray the LOTH, Reb. But, the problem I face is how to integrate the Liturgy in my daily life as a busy husband and father. It seems like a hard discipline at times to make it work.

I admire the clergy and religious that do it.

I sometimes want to start praying the Little Office Of the Blessed Virgin Mary again, as my spirituality is very Marian.
 
Hodos said:
40.png
Michael16:
I sounded arrogant. It’s just how I feel about the whole Sola Scriptura thing. To me, it just feels like that people put airs on themselves in their interpretation of Scripture. Like they are their own authority in this regard.
Click to expand...
Just to correct one thing about Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura does not mean interpreting scripture in a vacuum. Scripture is always interpreted within the community of Christ. When you read Luther’s writings for example, he was never only insisting upon his own authority. He constantly quoted the Church Fathers. So I don’t want you to walk away with the idea that the Sola Scriptura teaches that interpretation is done outside of the Christian community. What Sola Scriptura recognizes is that man is sinful, and that sometimes even the community can get doctrine wrong. Scripture is the means by which we ensure our doctrine is faithful. It is the norm by which we test the faithfulness of doctrine. I hope that clarifies a few things.
Click to expand...
Or, to hammer the more refined definition of sola scriptura down into a few bullet points:
  • In order to be necessary for salvation, it must be in scripture
  • If it is not provable in Scripture, it may be believed if it is not contrary to scripture
  • If it is not provable by Scripture, it cannot be required of the faithful
Any objections to that framing, @Hodos?
Michael16 said:
I’d like to pray the LOTH, Reb. But, the problem I face is how to integrate the Liturgy in my daily life as a busy husband and father. It seems like a hard discipline at times to make it work.

I admire the clergy and religious that do it.

I sometimes want to start praying the Little Office Of the Blessed Virgin Mary again, as my spirituality is very Marian.
Click to expand...
Recommendation that I make frequently: grab a copy of St. Augustine’s Prayer Book. It’s a delightful little thing. Written by and for Anglo-Catholics, but 99% of it is mere Catholicism. Instructions for the Rosary, numerous litanies, devotions to Mary, Joseph, the holy angels, and the Trinity, a shorter version of the daily office (Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer, and Compline) for individual or family prayer, Eucharistic devotions…it’s a wonderful book.
 
No, I take no issue with that framing. I think that summarizes things quite well.
 
Here’s my understanding of Sola Scriptura, Hodos.

To me, it boils down to reading Sacred Scripture for yourself and drawing your own conclusions.

Applying that as a starting point and prayerfully reading Sacred Scripture and allowing the text to reveal itself to me, as well as allowing God to lead me in my reading; leads me to the Catholic understanding.

Plus, reading the entirety of a given passage in it’s context is critically important.

Again, this leads to the Catholic understanding. Especially in regards to what Saint James says about faith and works; makes Scripture coherent.

Now, I realize you earnestly and sincerely believe in the conclusions Luther drew from it and I respect that.

What I sense from Luther is that he intensely struggled with what we Catholics call scrupulosity: An intense compulsive/obsessive morbid preoccupation with sin and never gaining satisfaction with Absolution.

I get it and I sympathize with him. I’ve been there myself.

I don’t agree with his conclusions, however. I believe he got the wrong ideas in an earnest effort to find relief from his scrupulosity.

I hope I’m not kicking off an argument. Not my intention; just saying.

As for his piety, from what I remember reading in my ELCA days, Luther seemed to me to be trying to bring the monastic life into daily life.

I just don’t see how his piety lines up with the huge anger issues I see in his writings. He seems to me to be more polemicist than saintly teacher.

Please, Hodos: I hope you’re not offended. I don’t mean to do so if I am.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top