Catholic vs protestant

[TomH1]

So what he does would not be accepted by God? If I went to the priest at the Lutheran church I attend to confess my sins, my confession would not be forgiven, because he isn’t a Catholic priest? Is that my understanding… even if he was an ordained priest, because he isn’t a Catholic priest with the “authority” given to the Catholic’s my confession would not be forgiven by God?

If you are a Catholic you should be going to confession at a Catholic church and confess to a priest with the necessary faculties.

If a Catholic priest has left the Catholic Church and joined a Lutheran church then, no, he cannot grant absolution of sins. Christ gave the Church the power to loose and bind and that is why the Church gives its priests the jurisdiction (as it’s properly called), i.e. faculties (as commonly known) to grant absolution from sins.

If you are a Lutheran then I am sure you believe a Lutheran minister has granted absolution. However, if you are a Catholic you should not be looking to go to confession at a non-Catholic church, especially a Protestant one, to confess sins to an ex-Catholic priest.

One of the important things about communion is it is a sign of union. That is one of the reasons the Catholic Church does not give communion to non-Catholics and why it does not want Catholics receiving communion outside the Catholic Church.

There is a problem with receiving communion from an ex-Catholic priest in a non-Catholic Christian ecclesial community. At the very least that priest is acting in disobedience to the Church and when he was ordained he made a solemn promise in public to God to be obedient. So, he has not kept the promise he made to God. Furthermore, by now actively working as a minister in a non-Catholic Christian ecclesial community he is possibly committing one or more or all of the following: apostasy, heresy and schism. Those are very serious sins.

Although he is still validly ordained as a Catholic priest* and he would validly confect the Eucharist if he celebrated a Mass he would do so illicitly because a priest should not celebrate Mass unless he has his bishop’s authority to do so.

If you would be happy to receive communion from a man who is disobedient to God and the Church and quite possibly in a state of serious sin that is your concern. It is most definitely not something I would contemplate doing.

*I am assuming the priest was either laicised on his request or as a punishment or simply walked away from the Church. If a tribunal declared his ordination invalid then he is not a priest but a layman (or possibly a deacon).

 

[Wannano]

I am not saying that it is right that a Catholic priest leaves the Catholic Church to be a minister of a non-Catholic church, but I tend to believe that when that happens the particular priest genuinely feels he is doing that to fulfill his promise to be obedient to God.
I highly doubt that he feels he is being disobedient to God.

 

[annad347]

@TomH1… so the answer is no. Nothing the priest does would be accepted by God?

but you keep saying the church… not God.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

So what he does would not be accepted by God? If I went to the priest at the Lutheran church I attend to confess my sins, my confession would not be forgiven, because he isn’t a Catholic priest?

Yes, because he lacks Apostolic authority. It would be like going to your mum and telling her your sins. If that is the case, it is better to pray to God to forgive you sins. At the same time, God promised Apostles to be able to forgive sins of people and as such we believe this power now rests on every Priest… and this is why we go to them. Valid Confession is, by God’s promise, a guarantee of forgiveness.

even if he was an ordained priest, because he isn’t a Catholic priest with the “authority” given to the Catholic’s my confession would not be forgiven by God?

If he was truly Ordained Priest, he would be able to give you Confession if indeed your and his beliefs about Confession were correct. At the same time though, he would have to be validly ordained and most Lutheran Priests are not. God might still forgive your sins (even if Minister was not real Priest) if He deems it right, but unlike Catholic Confession, it would not be sacramental but something of an exception.

and what mortal sin would a person be committee by receiving a the Eucharist from a non-Catholic church, if those sacraments were given by a pastor or minister?

Sin of sacrilege, as you believe their Bread and Wine to be akin to our Lord’s Body and Blood. Also disobedience to Church, and may also come with heresy in form of denial of transubstantiation. This pre-supposes you know Church teaches it is wrong to do so. It also results into heresies of indifferentism, where you don’t care which religion is absolutely True and which Church is Christ’s… and relativism where you believe True Church being relative to people attending it and hence Truth itself to be relative and not definitive.

What if the pastor or minister giving the sacrament was an ordained priest

Basically, he would commit mortal sin of Schism we are warned to not commit by Paul. @steve-b has exact wording on that. At the same time, if Lutherans deny transubstantiation, then Priest would NOT be able to consecrate Eucharist with wrong beliefs about it. To give and take are both sins, if parties are aware of it being sin. Basically a Catholic should not partake in Protestant communion service. Even if indeed Priest was able to consecrate Eucharist, schism and/or promoting or assisting it are sins.

and why do Catholic always say they’d don’t believe “once saved always saved” yet they only believe in one baptism… is it

Because even baptized can go to Hell. One must persevere to the end… not just on the start.

is it because we are suppose to believe we lose our salvation when we sin, that we must earn our salvation back by doing good works for God

Yes, pretty much.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

I highly doubt that he feels he is being disobedient to God.

Of course. People can be misled. It still does not make things right- but it does make sins lighter in eyes of God. God always look at circumstances and intentions.

but you keep saying the church… not God.

Because Church is guaranteed by God to be infallible. Church is “pillar of Truth” as Scripture teaches. God can indeed grant exceptional grace to someone outside the Church, but he does it to save the individual in rare circumstance- not because you would not need Church.

If someone does not hold to teachings of the Church and communes with Protestants despite knowing it is forbidden by Church, then he should not commune at Catholic Church, out of courtesy at least. People who downplay schism are people who maintain schism. Catholic Church is proper owner of Eucharist consecrated by her Priests and Priests offer Eucharist to those they believe are full Catholics not in state of mortal sin. To take Eucharist in any other state is something between stealing that Eucharist and sacrilege, if not both.

 

[Horton]

and why do Catholic always say they’d don’t believe “once saved always saved” yet they only believe in one baptism… is it because we are suppose to believe we lose our salvation when we sin, that we must earn our salvation back by doing good works for God, that repenting our sins to God is not enough, to keep the salvation we were given when we were baptized?

Because baptism alone was never meant to be for the salvation of souls. That is a Protestant invention. The Catholic Church, the original Christian Church, teaches baptism is one of seven sacraments. One can only be validly baptized once. For a baptism to be valid, it must be a Christian baptism, must be in the correct form, and have the correct matter. (I add the Christian for our LDS folks who do say in the name of the father, and the son, and the holy spirit, but yet do not practice a Christian religion). The form must be the use of the Trinity and the matter is water. If one is baptized in a Christian church in the correct form & matter, there is no need to do it again.

Our salvation is a continuous effort and it’s not really so much about “earning” it, but more about living our lives in God’s grace. He has a will for our lives and when we submit ourselves to that will then we are working toward our salvation. Sin can interrupt that process, mortal sin can stop it, so we need the sacrament of reconciliation to get back on track. It’s not a start all over again thing, but more of a two steps forward, one step back. With frequent confession we learn what our weakness are so we can build strength in those areas.

Because we love God and desire to please him we try to do good and positive things. We desire to live our lives in a good and positive way. We make use of the sacraments of reconciliation & the Eucharist often. We have a life of prayer. And we put out trust in God.

 

[Wannano]

Hi Horton, I have two requests for you. Could you please inform us which Protestant churches teach salvation is by baptism alone?

Secondly, if you could explain how confessing to a priest makes one aware of the weak points in his life I am interested. I had the impression that confession was one admitting his weak points and sins to the priest? How does that happen if one is not aware of his own failings?

 

[annad347]

@Horton, exactly… but you don’t lose it. You can forget it, leave it, ignore it, deny it, or worse case reject it… but you can never lose it. Once you are marked with the salvation of God, there is nothing, that can separate you from God’s love… Romans 8:38-39.

Catholic’s believe that too, because they know they fall they also know that when they get back up it is God who is helping them. God doesn’t say… whoops, good luck… then walks away.

They also know that God knows them by name, He will never leave them, Forsake them. They know if we seek Him we will find Him… or do they not believe that.

Not sure if that’s just at baptism, or a combination of vows we make to God, during Communion and Confirmation, but once we are low-jacked by God… we are low-jacked by God. ( just wanted to say we are low-jacked by God. )

Catholic do believe in once saved always saved… they just believe you have to keep that salvation alive with the works they do the sacrament, the Eucharist, with confession, penance… others believe its kept alive with the power of The Holy which leads them to want to do good works, take the Eucharist, to do confession, penance (not sure about the last) … but all want to follow God’s will.

God chooses you, you choose to accept.

 

[annad347]

Valid Confession is, by God’s promise, a guarantee of forgiveness.

Catholic’s believe this, yet believe that if I sinned against someone, confessed to them… it would not be a valid confession acceptable to God, because I didn’t confess to a priest?

…warned to not commit by Paul

please tell which biblical verses mention this, so I can read and study them.

Please understand I’m not asking to say or prove anything negative about the Catholic church. I am Catholic, I just don’t follow everything they practice, or believe they are the church created on the Rock called Peter.

Its hard to know the truth, when you pray for it over and over again… yet I find the truth in both the Catholic and Lutheran church. To understand how would be too hard to explain, but I’m willing too, if you really want to know.

People will say I’m blind to the truth, that I’m following my will and not God’s. Yet that can not be proven. Unless you believe God does not answer prayers.

I know this isn’t helping the OP, but understand for me the truth in the Catholic church… but it is also in the Lutheran church I attend… and that truth is Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.

Is the truth in every Christian church, I have not idea, I don’t attend every Christian church… but I do know that the Christian churches I attended worshiped Jesus Christ.

Catholic’s say that members of other Christian churchs are brothers and sisters of Christ. They can still receive salvation. Do I believe I’m committing a mortal sin by being an active member in both church, the answer is no, cause anything that brings me closer to God, can not be a sin. The devil would not be bring me to God, just taking me away from Him.

So please post the information about Paul, so I can read it.

 

[ameryle]

The catholic priesthood is descended from the apostle themselve. They ordained men who ordained other down the lign up until today.

 

[JonNC]

If I went to the priest at the Lutheran church I attend to confess my sins, my confession would not be forgiven, because he isn’t a Catholic priest?

Keep in mind that this is, indeed, the Catholic position. Catholics should be respected for voicing the beliefs of their communion.
On the other hand, as Lutherans we know they are mistaken. Lutheran orders based on presbyter ordination, or ordinations by bishops, are valid ordinations and our sacraments, including Confession/Holy Absolution, are valid.

 

[Horton]

Hi Horton, I have two requests for you. Could you please inform us which Protestant churches teach salvation is by baptism alone

It would be those who believe in the “once saved, always save” concept. Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, be baptized and you are saved ones. I fully understand there is not “a” protestant church but many protestant denominations. I also know that the various denominations do not all have the same beliefs. So if I say the Baptists believe this, several people will come back and this certain Baptist church doesn’t and so on. So I can’t say which ones as a list.

Secondly, if you could explain how confessing to a priest makes one aware of the weak points in his life I am interested. I had the impression that confession was one admitting his weak points and sins to the priest? How does that happen if one is not aware of his own failings?

If we are going to confession with the same sins over & over we start to recognize it is a particular problem. If we have a regular confessor, our confessor will start to recognize it is a problem. When we go into confession we not only gain absolution for our sins, we most often get advise from the priest on how to stop the sin. When we have a regular confessor we can work with him to stop the sin.

We may be very aware of the sins but not the reasons for committing them, so we may need some help. It’s not magic.

 

[annad347]

Catholics should be respected for voicing the beliefs of their communion.

Sorry if I gave off the impression I had no respect for confession or any of the Catholic sacraments, that is not true. I still attend Catholic services with complete respect… .including confession.

I’m just surprised and wondering what makes confessing to a Catholic priest more valid then confessing to any other minister. I understand now being ordained is important, so I just honestly didn’t realize no other Christian church would have ordained priest. Then I know there are Catholic priest who turned not from the Church but from the Catholic church, so I was wondering what happened to the vow they made to God… if they would still be valid.

but I am more then anything would never knowingly do anything that was disrespectful to either church I attend…especially since all I want to do is serve the Lord.

so please if I said something that sounded disrespectful, tell me which post so I can edit &/or delete it.

 

[Justin_Mary]

Once you are marked with the salvation of God, there is nothing, that can separate you from God’s love

No doubt, God loves us & that will never change. Even when we were enemies he laid down his life for me. But that’s not salvation. As many are still set against him.

He has shown the strength of his arm. He has scattered the proud in their conceit. & that’s a very scary thing. We can get so wrapped up in ourselves we may think we’re following Christ, but we’re truly following ourselves.

For instance, we can know the Church was established by Christ himself & still look for any & every loophole. We can know everything the Church teaches but bend it to our understanding instead of conforming to Christ.

He has cast the mighty down from their thrones & lifted up the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things & sent the rich away hungry.

 

[GKMotley]

The RCC recognizes other Churches as possessing valid holy orders, thus valid priests.

And some Churches they do not so recognize disagree with them.

 

[Justin_Mary]

We may be very aware of the sins but not the reasons for committing them, so we may need some help. It’s not magic.

That might be a nice secondary benefit, but let’s not forget we are not confessing to a priest but to Christ himself. He hears our confession through the priest’s ears, absolves us through the priest’s mouth, bless us through the priest’s hands.

 

[mcq72]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) “tasty” memories…thanks B

 

[Horton]

@Horton, exactly… but you don’t lose it. You can forget it, leave it, ignore it, deny it, or worse case reject it… but you can never lose it. Once you are marked with the salvation of God, there is nothing, that can separate you from God’s love … Romans 8:38-39.

I’ll start here: Once again you are use a protestant translation to describe a Catholic concept and it doesn’t work. You have to look at Romans 8:31-39 to get the meaning. St Paul is talking about the absolute love and mercy of God. He is explaining that God will never leave us, he will never abandon us. As it says in the footnotes:

The all-conquering power of God’s love has overcome every obstacle to Christians’ salvation and every threat to separate them from God. That power manifested itself fully when God’s own Son was delivered up to death for their salvation. Through him Christians can overcome all their afflictions and trials.

Catholic’s believe that too, because they know they fall they also know that when they get back up it is God who is helping them. God doesn’t say… whoops, good luck… then walks away.

… or do they not believe that.

As a Catholic how is it you don’t know this? Are you a cradle Catholic that was poorly catechized or did you convert? Can you clarify this for me?

God gave us free will and at times we choose to leave him, often through our sins. As a Catholic you should know the condition for mortal sin. It is a choice we make to abandon God, to leave him, to walk away from his grace. He is waiting for us to make the choice to come back to him and he always forgives us.

Our salvation is ours to lose by our actions, God does not take it away, we throw it away.

Catholic do believe in once saved always saved

This is completely false. Catholics have NEVER believed in once saved, always saved. If the Catholic Church taught our salvation was guaranteed why would we need the sacraments? How would the sacraments be beneficial to the faithful? Speak to your priest about this.

 

[GKMotley]

And it’s expressive.

 

[mcq72]

succinctly expressive, as any emoji