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Bananie264
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I am Catholic and one of my best friends belongs to the Vineyard Christian Fellowship. I was just wondering if anyone could tell me some of the significant differences in beliefs between the two religions.
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Ziggamafu
Guest
Vineyards can differ quite a bit from congregation to congregation. Some Vineyards are quite liberal but a large number are mostly conservative. The three big themes of Vineyard churches are: seeker sympathy (meaning a strong push for fun and inviting worship environments, relaxed atmosphere, sermons that try to be culturally relevant without offense, fast-paced worship, home groups, parties, etc.), charismaticism (tongues, prophecy, words of wisdom, etc.), and music (Vineyard is very well known for their original, very modern worship music - many Catholic parishes use Vineyard songs, especially at teen masses).
Vineyards are non-Catholic, therefore they are Protestant. This means that they do not recognize absolutely binding authority in Catholic councils or dogmas. They do not believe in papal inallibility, though I have met some that recognize a greater spiritual authority / leadership in the pope as successor of St. Peter. Ultimately, they rest on the same two pillars as the rest of Protestantism: justification by faith alone and the infallibility of the Bible alone. Nor do most Vineyards believe in other distinctivley Catholic doctrines, such as transubstantiation, prayer to saints, veneration of relics, indulgences, etc.
Vineyards are non-Catholic, therefore they are Protestant. This means that they do not recognize absolutely binding authority in Catholic councils or dogmas. They do not believe in papal inallibility, though I have met some that recognize a greater spiritual authority / leadership in the pope as successor of St. Peter. Ultimately, they rest on the same two pillars as the rest of Protestantism: justification by faith alone and the infallibility of the Bible alone. Nor do most Vineyards believe in other distinctivley Catholic doctrines, such as transubstantiation, prayer to saints, veneration of relics, indulgences, etc.
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LittleDeb
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I have some close friends who are Vineyard members. At one time I had a short biography from them about their history. I remember one important line in it. It said, (paraphrased) “We believe that we do not need a church to interpret Scripture for us. We are free to interpret Scripture ourselves.” At the time I almost asked, “so why does your pastor interpret Scripture for you?” but I bit my tongue instead. They were new Christians and I did not want to challenge them too much. I feared it would cause them to lose their new-found faith.
I think I did a search on the web for more info on them. I am sure they have a website. What I found was that by knowing which groups they splintered from, in history, helps to understand their current beliefs. I know they are authentic Christians. They do baptize in the Triuune formula. They do however, hold both Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura beliefs. They don’t usually know those terms other than, “salvation by faith alone,” what the Church called first in the 1500’s, sola fide.
I was very welcomed to visit their church. I was not pressured to join, but maybe it was because they knew I was already a devout Christian. I think they may hold the, “all Christian churches are the same, just different worship styles” belief. No one there ever said the “Catholics aren’t Christians” baloney to me. I did hear a sermon there on the necessity of the reformation, but it lacked enough depth to really understand what he meant.
I really like them and what they do for the community. But, no offense against them, I remember thinking, “this would make a great first grade religious ed. class.” Lots of singing and feel-good stuff but not a lot of depth. I asked my friends, “Well that was a nice, fluffy appetizer. When do we get the meal?”
Wow I said a lot but I don’t know if any of that helped. Welcome to the forum!
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Cat
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I have a difficult time with Vineyard.
They “steal sheep.” What that means is that many of the people who attend Vineyard are Christians who leave their churches to go to Vineyard.
This happened to our church in North Carolina. Many of our families left to go to the Vineyard church. Their reasons for leaving were that Vineyard was more fun for their kids and had better music.
Also, when we were Protestant, we were involved in a church planting effort that didn’t seem to get anywhere. Finally my husband and I discovered that the pastor of our church plant, who was being paid by the denomination, was in reality, a Vineyard pastor who didn’t believe in established churches. We confronted him and asked him why he was accepting a salary from a denomination if he didn’t fully agree with that denomination and had no intention of starting a “church.” He didn’t have an answer. After we reported him to the our denomination, he was fired. He was quite angry at us for getting him fired. I think he was a liar for accepting a salary from an organization that he was working against.
At any rate, I don’t like these “tactics.” Perhaps Vineyard has changed their “strategy” in recent years. I hope so.
But keep in mind that even though they are “against organized churches,” they still have to pay their “pastor” and pay the rent on whatever facility they are using. This means that they need PEOPLE, and they will take people from wherever they can get them. Little churches get decimated when Vineyard steals their sheep.
They “steal sheep.” What that means is that many of the people who attend Vineyard are Christians who leave their churches to go to Vineyard.
This happened to our church in North Carolina. Many of our families left to go to the Vineyard church. Their reasons for leaving were that Vineyard was more fun for their kids and had better music.
Also, when we were Protestant, we were involved in a church planting effort that didn’t seem to get anywhere. Finally my husband and I discovered that the pastor of our church plant, who was being paid by the denomination, was in reality, a Vineyard pastor who didn’t believe in established churches. We confronted him and asked him why he was accepting a salary from a denomination if he didn’t fully agree with that denomination and had no intention of starting a “church.” He didn’t have an answer. After we reported him to the our denomination, he was fired. He was quite angry at us for getting him fired. I think he was a liar for accepting a salary from an organization that he was working against.
At any rate, I don’t like these “tactics.” Perhaps Vineyard has changed their “strategy” in recent years. I hope so.
But keep in mind that even though they are “against organized churches,” they still have to pay their “pastor” and pay the rent on whatever facility they are using. This means that they need PEOPLE, and they will take people from wherever they can get them. Little churches get decimated when Vineyard steals their sheep.
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chrysostom15
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Yes, Catholic recieve Jesus; Vineyard Christian fellowship people do not recieve Jesus and are not part of the vine.
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a_cermak
Guest
I don’t see how you can fault the Vineyard organization for providing services and if some members of a different Church decide those services are superior, they jump ship. I mean, couldn’t the Catholic Church be said to be “stealing sheep” when it confirms the Catechumens? Most of them came from somewhere. My own Church is about 50% former Catholic so I suppose you could call them “sheep stealers”. There’s a difference between targetting a Church (say having people put handbills about how much better your local Lutheran Church is as far as social programs and dances on cars in the Episcopal Church’s parking lot during Mass) and having the consequence of acquiring new members from other Churches.
Now the misrepresenting of the pastor is another case, and that’s tacky and not at all Christian behavior.
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manualman
Guest
a_cermak,
Perhaps you don’t see the issue because IMO it is a problem nearly universal to protestantism. The reason there ARE so many competing denominations is that the core principles that distinguish protestantism from catholicism inherently encourage what I call the “retreat and regroup” approach towards dealing with lukewarmness. A congregation becomes a few generations old, the 3rd gen kids aren’t as fired up as that of the founders, grumbling ensues, a core group of reformers forms, they get frustrated with the slow pace of change and go form their own new church or join one started by somebody else. That’s the 500 year pattern, and it IS a problem. Encouraging it isn’t healthy, even if it isn’t with a targeting of specific churches in mind.
Perhaps you don’t see the issue because IMO it is a problem nearly universal to protestantism. The reason there ARE so many competing denominations is that the core principles that distinguish protestantism from catholicism inherently encourage what I call the “retreat and regroup” approach towards dealing with lukewarmness. A congregation becomes a few generations old, the 3rd gen kids aren’t as fired up as that of the founders, grumbling ensues, a core group of reformers forms, they get frustrated with the slow pace of change and go form their own new church or join one started by somebody else. That’s the 500 year pattern, and it IS a problem. Encouraging it isn’t healthy, even if it isn’t with a targeting of specific churches in mind.
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BlestOne
Guest
The Vineyard church near us is not Trinitarian. They are charismatic to the extreme too… I don’t know if they all are, but that is my personal experience with them.
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geezerbob
Guest
Some of my family got involved with The Vineyard and it was not pretty. It was almost cult-like the way they put their church ahead of other friends and family, almost to the point of exclusion. There are lots of stories I could tell but it wouldn’t serve any purpose. Ultimately, both the minister and his wife were involved in scandals and the congregation dissolved, with the members scattering in all directions.
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LittleDeb
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I am seeing an interesting problem here. Even though they all claim to be “Vineyard” there are some very different beliefs. So I guess even under the same umbrella name, “no authority but the Bible” is still a problem. As a Catholic, I love that when we travel its the same belief everywhere.
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xmydreamsfadex
Guest
one thing i found interesting in their statement on faith " WE BELIEVE in the one, holy, universal Church." i read it twice just to make sure they didn’t put in apostolic. 
they do have a webiste though for the USA. it’s vineyardusa.org. they have their beliefs on the site for all to see.
they do have a webiste though for the USA. it’s vineyardusa.org. they have their beliefs on the site for all to see.
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Bananie264
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thanks all for the replies…and yes I found that interesting too that they said “We believe in the one holy church”…that’s part of why I was so curious as to the differences because it seems that a lot of their core beliefs reflect ours. If anyone has anything else that is doctrine related I am still quite interested to compare, but please understand I don’t want this to turn into Vineyard bashing.
God Bless and thanks for the help
God Bless and thanks for the help
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BlestOne
Guest
My ds dated a girl from there and his school chaplain tried to talk him out of dating her. Turns out, she broke up with him because God told her too… Whew!!! I was relieved!
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Syele
Guest
Every Vineyard church is totally different from one another. They have 13 tenants that a church must agree to to be a “Vineyard” those 13 things are quite vague. So one Vineyard will be TOTALLY different from another. I know the one I attended had both Calvinists and Arminians and neither group had any trouble with the statement of faith (Though some Sunday school discussions got a bit heated)
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Hisalone
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This is a lie!
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reteeks21
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You should be used to statements like that by now. We know it’s not true, but sometimes it doesn’t matter what you say; it’s the way they believe it to be or it’s no way at all.
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wisdomseeker
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wow! this is the first time i hear someone accusing the CC of stealing members. all i hear is people complaining of not feeling welcome in the CC. i never seen the CC going after no one. on the contrary, at the RCIA i see noone showing any interest to keep noone there. is all up to the person to remain or not in the CC.
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looneytunes
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My wife and I were Vineyard leaders.Our first church was an inner city street church which became a Vineyard.We were charismatic christians along the same lines as the pentecostal,evangelical churches.Our church sought support and links with some sort of charismatic network,and came under the Vineyard banner.Like most independent charismatic churches the Pastor(a self or group appointed spokesperson,who may not have any formal qualifications or credentials,but seems to know more than the rest of the group) influences and teaches the bible as he interprets it best,but is influenced himself by tapes/books/DVD’s usually from american evangelists.All these type of churches believe and agree on “The basic truths” and and what fits in with the Nicean Creed.We became a Vineyard because they believed “the basics” and had great worship,and seemed modern compared with most old style churches.BUT as much as the Vineyard and a lot of these charismatic style churches believe “the Basic Truths”,a lot of other ideas,practices and ways of thinking come on board which are questionable.I felt our church as a Vineyard was becoming cult like in many ways.We left and sought a church which was true to Christ and his Spirit and felt led to the Catholic Church.
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wisdomseeker
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My wife and I were Vineyard leaders.Our first church was an inner city street church which became a Vineyard.We were charismatic christians along the same lines as the pentecostal,evangelical churches.Our church sought support and links with some sort of charismatic network,and came under the Vineyard banner.Like most independent charismatic churches the Pastor(a self or group appointed spokesperson,who may not have any formal qualifications or credentials,but seems to know more than the rest of the group) influences and teaches the bible as he interprets it best,but is influenced himself by tapes/books/DVD’s usually from american evangelists.All these type of churches believe and agree on “The basic truths” and and what fits in with the Nicean Creed.We became a Vineyard because they believed “the basics” and had great worship,and seemed modern compared with most old style churches.BUT as much as the Vineyard and a lot of these charismatic style churches believe “the Basic Truths”,a lot of other ideas,practices and ways of thinking come on board which are questionable.I felt our church as a Vineyard was becoming cult like in many ways.We left and sought a church which was true to Christ and his Spirit and felt led to the Catholic Church.
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