Catholic Wedding followed by another ceremony

[TaGor26]

My fiancé is catholic, I am Christian. What are the options for a small wedding in the church followed by a large ceremony outdoors? Is it accurate we could not have any vows or exchange rings at the following ceremony? Only a short blessing? What all would be allowed at the outdoor ceremony?

 

[Gorgias]

Having two ceremonies is generally frowned upon by the Church (although, I’m sad to admit, you will find Catholic pastors out there who “do their own thing” and allow it).

One option that no one seems to think of is asking for dispensation from the form of marriage (i.e., a Catholic wedding is supposed to be in a Catholic church building and presided by a priest or deacon). You can literally ask for that requirement to be dispensed with, and when that is granted, you can have a wedding that’s valid in your Christian community (which means it can be presided over by a non-Catholic minister, and in an environment outside of a Catholic church building).

Here’s the catch, though: when you go that route, you can’t have a Catholic cleric preside, and you can’t have the ceremony in a Catholic church building. (Some Catholics would try to mix-and-match – a Catholic cleric outdoors, or a non-Catholic inside a Catholic church building… and the Church won’t give you permission for that).

But, if all that you’re looking for is a wedding that’s valid in the Church, then what you’re looking for is one single ceremony – either according to Church form, or one that’s been dispensed from the requirement of form – then that’s absolutely possible!

“One ceremony that looks like my tradition and one ceremony that looks like yours” isn’t the route that the Catholic Church would be good with, though. The marriage ceremony is the marriage ceremony. You can’t have a “do-over” in a second environment.

 

[TC3033]

I know where you’re coming from. My wife and I did get married in the Catholic Church. We initially wanted a non-Catholic wedding where we met by my priest, but due to logistics we got married in her hometown (kind of) in a church in her home parish (kind of). What we did was have the wedding outside of Mass. It was only about 20-25 minutes, very much like a wedding I’m used to and we didn’t have communion.

What we’re looking at doing (in the next couple years, probably for our 20th) is renew our wedding vows via the ceremony we initially wanted.

Otherwise…ya, what Gorgias said is correct…The Catholic Church doesn’t really allow for two ceremonies.

What I have heard of, with situations like yours, is having the wedding that you want and then having it convalidated later. I’m sure it isn’t the avenue most posters would say isn’t the wise one, but I know it happens.

Edit: Do you know why the dispensation wasn’t approved? If you don’t feel comfortable answering…understood. I ask because this is the first time I’ve heard of the dispensation not being approved.

 

[ChemicalBean]

Is it really about the pomp of a large outdoor wedding that Catholics typically do not have? Is it the presence of the tabernacle in the church building? Is it coming from a sense of establishing “equality” (like, I’m not-Catholic, He is Catholic, and it really doesn’t matter because we want to show that both are equal)?

If you are in Baltimore, it sounds like within a controlled 1-year “experiment” you might be able to have an outdoor Catholic wedding: Archdiocesan policy now allows for outdoor and other locations for weddings - Catholic Review

 

[JohnLilburne]

The Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms of Ecumenism at http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...993_principles-and-norms-on-ecumenism_en.html has a section on Mixed Marriages, beginning at 143, which includes:

“156. One must keep in mind that, if the wedding is celebrated with a dispensation from canonical form, some public form of celebration is still required for validity.149 To emphasize the unity of marriage, it is not permitted to have two separate religious services in which the exchange of consent would be expressed twice, or even one service which would celebrate two such exchanges of consent jointly or successively.150”

Footnote 150 is “150 Cf. CIC, can. 1127, 3 and CCEO, can. 839.” Here CIC is referring to the Code of Canon Law. Canon 1127 §3 can be read at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P41.HTM .

 

[QwertyGirl]

I lot of couples like to write their own vows.

 

[His_helpmeet]

If they’re getting married in a Catholic ceremony they are not permitted to write their own vows. They may, however, select the particular form of vows that they would like - there are two, as I recall. (One form where the couple repeat the vows after the priest, the other where the priest phrases the vows in the form of a question, and the couple simply reply “I do”.)

ETA: The reason they can’t write their own vows in a Catholic ceremony is that there are very specific commitments they make as part of a Catholic marriage. Marriage is a sacrament, a visible sign of God’s grace to us. In order for a sacrament to be valid, it must have proper matter and form. “Matter” is the physical requirement - one man and one woman. “Form” refers to the words that are used. If they write their own vows they may not take the appropriate form required for the sacrament to be valid.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Yes. I am well aware of everything in your post. For most non-catholics, the vows are the meat and potatoes of the wedding ceremony, and they prefer to write them themselves. It is more personal, and allows them to promise eachother things that required vows don’t include. I was at such a wedding recently and the officiant read the boiler plate vows (and the couple affirmed them), and then the bride and groom each read the vows they had written to eachother. It was really quite lovely.

 

[OldCAFMember]

Um, both you and your spouse are Christians.

 

[TC3033]

I’m pretty sure that the OP knows that. Many non-Catholics (specifically non-denominational) identify as Christian.

 

[TheLittleLady]

So, your fiance is a Catholic Christian and you are a non-Catholic Christian

If you are in the US, this website will help:

https://www.foryourmarriage.org/

 

[phil19034]

Is it really about the pomp of a large outdoor wedding that Catholics typically do not have? Is it the presence of the tabernacle in the church building? Is it coming from a sense of establishing “equality” (like, I’m not-Catholic, He is Catholic, and it really doesn’t matter because we want to show that both are equal)?

If you are in Baltimore, it sounds like within a controlled 1-year “experiment” you might be able to have an outdoor Catholic wedding: Archdiocesan policy now allows for outdoor and other locations for weddings - Catholic Review

I generally think this is a bad idea. However, I guess I can see the compromise if the wedding ceremony is NOT a wedding mass.

We should NOT be getting into the habit of having Sacraments outdoors for no good reason.

 

[TheLittleLady]

We should NOT be getting into the habit of having Sacraments outdoors for no good reason.

The Archdiocese has decided that the desire of the couple may be a good reason, thus, they are testing it out.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

We should NOT be getting into the habit of having Sacraments outdoors for no good reason.

The Archdiocese has decided that the desire of the couple may be a good reason, thus, they are testing it out.

I know they are testing it out… I just don’t think it’s a good idea. Perhaps, I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s a good sign when two Catholics want to get married outside the Catholic Church.

And perhaps I might be proven wrong, but I don’t think having a Catholic wedding mass on a beach or in a park is going to bring the couple back to attending Sunday mass every week.

Instead, I think it would be better to start prepping Catholics for the Sacrament of Marriage before confirmation and before they start dating.

God Bless

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I went to a wedding like this and the way they got round it was to have a wedding blessing at the non-Catholic church following the wedding service

 

[pnewton]

Besides a dispensation from form, it might be possible to have something other that exchange of consent at a reception. Any symbolic ceremony cannot be considered secular for the purpose of banning from the wedding, and then religious for the purpose of banning from the reception. That’s nuts.

The day may come when two ceremonies might be a requirement, if the state changes the definition of marriage to the point the Church cannot perform legal marriages without compromise.

 

[MikeInVA]

The Archdiocese has decided

I was in a diocese a few years ago where the Archbishop decided that we didn’t have to kneel during the consecration. That didn’t last very long. Just because bishops make decisions doesn’t mean they are good decisions.

 

[DarkLight]

I know they are testing it out… I just don’t think it’s a good idea. Perhaps, I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s a good sign when two Catholics want to get married outside the Catholic Church.

I admit I could see it for some of us who are converts, and don’t want to have the giant fuss of family and catholic stuff. Although catholics can have a wedding without Mass, which would improve some matters.

The day may come when two ceremonies might be a requirement, if the state changes the definition of marriage to the point the Church cannot perform legal marriages without compromise.

A courthouse wedding and a Catholic wedding is standard in a lot of countries (I even knew one couple in the u.s. who did it, because of legal requirements). But I think that’s somewhat different from having both a church wedding and a separate secular celebration of marriage, in the colloquial sense of the term.

 

[InThePew]

Two things here: first of all marriage outside of a sacred place; second marriage in a non-Catholic ceremony. The first requires permission while the second requires dispensation - the difference being that without the second the marriage is invalid.

Dioceses differ in their willingness to grant permission to marry outside of a sacred place but it’s fair to say that there’s likely to be a greater willingness to approve a venue where there’s a spiritual connection to it on the part of the couple. As an aside, beach weddings are just a really bad idea regardless of reasons. Similarly, reasons like a relative who can’t travel tend to attract some sympathy. On the other hand, getting married in your local Taco Bell is probably a non-starter (thankfully).

Dispensation of form is much more difficult and simply doesn’t happen in the case of two Catholics marrying. Usually it’s approved where the non-Catholic party is very active in their faith (or better yet has a relative who’s a minister in that faith). Put simply, convenience really doesn’t enter into the equation.

 

[OldCAFMember]

I’m pretty sure that the OP knows that. Many non-Catholics (specifically non-denominational) identify as Christian.

I’m not as sure as you are. Putting aside the fact that there there really is no such thing as non-denominational (every group follows somebody’s version), I am certainly going to point out to a Protestant that Catholics are indeed Christian, if for no other reason than reminding the non-Catholic how offensive it is to Catholics to hear this.