catholic weddings

[Beth_Z]

I have gone to several weddings of nieces and nephews that have been held in the Catholic Church. All of these couples were living together and one party was non-Catholic. Although the parents were not happy about it, the priests agreed to officiate even though not one couple ever intended to begin going to Mass. The parents were in the postion of having told the couple to ‘see the priest’, because of the obvious problems with these marriages. Then the priest, instead of backing the parents, agrees to marry the couple. This leaves all the faithful Catholic relaives in a difficult postion. You can assume that, barring a grand overnight conversion, this couple will carry on as usual; however, one can’t inquire into their state of grace. So each time we are left feeling as though God is being mocked by these young kids who are using the Church with no knowledge of their faith or intension of ever setting foot in a church again. What can be done?

 

[agapewolf]

I have gone to several weddings of nieces and nephews that have been held in the Catholic Church. All of these couples were living together and one party was non-Catholic. Although the parents were not happy about it, the priests agreed to officiate even though not one couple ever intended to begin going to Mass. The parents were in the postion of having told the couple to ‘see the priest’, because of the obvious problems with these marriages. Then the priest, instead of backing the parents, agrees to marry the couple. This leaves all the faithful Catholic relaives in a difficult postion. You can assume that, barring a grand overnight conversion, this couple will carry on as usual; however, one can’t inquire into their state of grace. So each time we are left feeling as though God is being mocked by these young kids who are using the Church with no knowledge of their faith or intension of ever setting foot in a church again. What can be done?

This frustrates me beyond anything else in my job. I’m a music director that has played 160+ weddings (I’ve lost count). I also am working on my certification for Theology of the body, so when I know what the potential is and see how off the mark many people are, it is very frustrating.

The thing is, a priest cannot deny sacraments. They can only delay them. A lot of priests have told me that they take into account the fact that the couple is coming to the church asking for the sacrament. They view that as a hope that the grace from the sacrament will change their hearts.

I look at it like many times they are just setting them up for divorce, so I wish more were done in the preparation process.

There is hope though too. I know of a couple who were living together, using contraception, and such, and were married in the church. Several years later, he went on a youth ministry training conference that taught him about the authority of the Church, and the beauty of marriage. They stopped using contraception, became faithful catholics that day, and now are a lively practicing Catholic family.

I share your frustration.

 

[kage_ar]

Would you rather these couples compound sin upon sin by having an invalid wedding?

 

[Bluegoat]

But doesn’t this just set them up for having an invalid wedding as it is? If they fully intend to use contraception, for example?

 

[kage_ar]

But doesn’t this just set them up for having an invalid wedding as it is? If they fully intend to use contraception, for example?

Could you cite the documentst that state contraception invalidates a marriage? I have seen this claim made and have never found the docuemntation.

 

[agapewolf]

Could you cite the documentst that state contraception invalidates a marriage? I have seen this claim made and have never found the docuemntation.

Because it isn’t violates all 4: free, total, faithful, and fruitful.

I don’t think there is a document that says such, although I know it is a question on the annullment questionare.

 

[Beth_Z]

Here is the latest twist. A young couple in the family has been living together for several years. He is a fallen away; she is baptized, but of no religion. Now they are getting married and have invited everyone to a garden wedding to be officiated either by a protestant minister or a jp. Their plan is to privately get married by the local Catholic priest on Friday and then carry on on Saturday as though that was the ‘real’ wedding. Should I go to this ‘pretend’ wedding and take my kids? I feel that we are slapping God in the face.

 

[kage_ar]

Here is the latest twist. A young couple in the family has been living together for several years. He is a fallen away; she is baptized, but of no religion. Now they are getting married and have invited everyone to a garden wedding to be officiated either by a protestant minister or a jp. Their plan is to privately get married by the local Catholic priest on Friday and then carry on on Saturday as though that was the ‘real’ wedding. Should I go to this ‘pretend’ wedding and take my kids? I feel that we are slapping God in the face.

The pretend wedding is not allowed under Canon law. If I were you, I would make the Priest aware of this plan and I would NOT attend.

 

[lizaanne]

Could you cite the documentst that state contraception invalidates a marriage? I have seen this claim made and have never found the docuemntation.

I would think that going into a marriage with the full intent of preventing procreation, as well as an intent to never practice the Faith (which includes a properly formed understanding of the Sacrament of Marriage) would set someone up for an invalid marriage.

What do you think? My initial reaction to the OP is that they are probably entering into an invalid marriage to begin with - and second reaction was, no wonder there are so many annulments when couples just don’t care and do whatever the heck they want.

I always value your insight on this topic because I know you (and 1ke) both know your stuff.

~Liza

 

[PatriceA]

My SIL was the bride in such a situation. Her and my husband’s grandfather was very,very,very active in their parish and the priest at the time overlooked a lot of stuff that would have been a red flag because of the grandfather. Plus she and her now husband out and out lied to the priest that the husband had been baptised, and again, because of the grandfather, they took their word. My SIL has never been confimed but is a godmother for one of the cousin’s baby.

I really think it is the preparation process that needs to change. Some parishes, the pre-cana counseling is only a couple of hours on a Saturday afternoon, like ours was and it was a “group” session. How much real preparation is actually done when its presented like that. I think sometimes the people in the program are afraid to ask the hard questions, to actually counsel and when needed strongly suggest changes that need to be made to bring the couple into line with church teachings.

When my husband and I were getting married in the same parish as my SIL, a new priest had been assigned and he did counsel us appropriately. But we took it very seriously too. My husband was confirmed a couple of weeks before our wedding, he knew it was the correct and necessary thing to do. The Church, IMO, needs to counsel couples more that the marriage is much, much more important that the reception that happens after the wedding ceremony. Maybe there needs to be ongoing counseling, follow up counseling after the wedding takes place.

 

[joandarc2008]

Personally IMHO - Sacraments cannot be denied unless they are obviously illicit prior to the wedding. For instance - a member of the couple is still married in the eyes of God, etc.

Now, as far as what will happen after the marriage none of us has a right to predict. During a vald sacrament the Holy Spirit becomes part of that bond - who are we to say how the Holy Spirit will or will not affect that couple. I doubt very much that anyone in my in-laws family thought that we would be as active as we are - and as a matter of fact they questioned the validity of our sacrament and tried to have it removed from the Church we were having it in. We had a wise priest who reminded my MIL that it was not her Church but God’s and not her’s to judge. Now, we are much more active through the sacrament - but it doesn’t happen toeveryone. However, the angels in Heaven rejoice more for the one sinner that repents than the 99 pious. Just some points to make.

 

[Phemie]

But doesn’t this just set them up for having an invalid wedding as it is? If they fully intend to use contraception, for example?

As long as they intend to have children ‘some day’, it would be valid.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I don’t think contraception invalidates a marriage–that is a seperate issue. Would any other type of mortal sin invalidate a marriage?

What if you can’t conceive? Because you don’t have children is your marriage invalid? I don’t think so.

 

[Beth_Z]

I think that this thread is going a little off the original topic. What I was initially asking is whether or not it was right to attend a secular, outdoor wedding of a non-practicing Catholic to a non-practicing Protestant if the couple is planning on privately been wed the day before by a the local Catholic priest. Technically one would be attending a mock wedding and a party. However, I have since looked up Canon Law and found out that it is forbidden to hold another wedding service either before or after the actual wedding. Of course that may have been gone over with the priest and they may have found a loophole-they always do; but I have to be thinking of the scandel it gives to my own kids as to bending the rules to suit the whims of socety.

 

[PatriceA]

I think that this thread is going a little off the original topic. What I was initially asking is whether or not it was right to attend a secular, outdoor wedding of a non-practicing Catholic to a non-practicing Protestant if the couple is planning on privately been wed the day before by a the local Catholic priest. Technically one would be attending a mock wedding and a party. However, I have since looked up Canon Law and found out that it is forbidden to hold another wedding service either before or after the actual wedding. Of course that may have been gone over with the priest and they may have found a loophole-they always do; but I have to be thinking of the scandel it gives to my own kids as to bending the rules to suit the whims of socety.

No, your original post was about your nieces and nephews getting married in the Catholic Church and not taking the proper measures to do so and what did we think should be done about situations such as that. You didn’t ask about the secular, outdoor wedding until the 7th comment in this thread. We’ve pretty much stayed on track according to your original post that started this whole thread. You brought up a very valid point that we all feel needs to be addressed from what I’ve read.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Here is the latest twist. A young couple in the family has been living together for several years. He is a fallen away; she is baptized, but of no religion. Now they are getting married and have invited everyone to a garden wedding to be officiated either by a protestant minister or a jp. Their plan is to privately get married by the local Catholic priest on Friday and then carry on on Saturday as though that was the ‘real’ wedding. Should I go to this ‘pretend’ wedding and take my kids? I feel that we are slapping God in the face.

You can let the priest know–show him the invite for the Saturday event if you’ve already received it. If the Friday Catholic wedding still happens, I would attend that and skip the Saturday event.

In any case, as their relative and a practicing Catholic, you also have some responsibility to steer them in the right direction. Pray for them. Ask them about their parish. Encourage them to go to Mass and confession. Especially on Divine Mercy Sunday, storm heaven on their behalf.

 

[quiet52]

Beth, if you attend the fake wedding, your message to your children would be that you approve.

 

[Phemie]

I’m confused.

Is the priest performing a legal ceremony or only a religious ceremony? If he isn’t performing a legal ceremony then they would need the next day’s wedding in order to be legally married.

Can he even perform a religious only wedding for someone who is not already legally married? In countries where a civil ceremony is required (i.e. Germany, France, etc.) the law usually forbids the Church from marrying a couple who is not already legally married.

 

[Beth_Z]

I’m confused.

Is the priest performing a legal ceremony or only a religious ceremony? If he isn’t performing a legal ceremony then they would need the next day’s wedding in order to be legally married.

Can he even perform a religious only wedding for someone who is not already legally married? In countries where a civil ceremony is required (i.e. Germany, France, etc.) the law usually forbids the Church from marrying a couple who is not already legally married.

The priest is legally marrying them. He apparently said that what they do after that is their business, So the valid marriage in the church is the one no one is invited to, and the mock wedding held on the lawn is the one on the invitation.
I have since looked it up in Canon Law and it does say that a couple may not hold a second ceremony. The problem is, there is no use in telling this couple about that, as they have probably never heard of Canon Law. They have no intention of coming back to the Church or of raising the kids Catholic.
I think it is time for the Church to tell people that it is not there to be used and misused by people trying to sooth their consciences or please their mothers.
Perhaps parents need to go further than, “I won’t come to your wedding if it is not in a Catholic Church”. This seems to be all that the fallen aways remember.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I’ve started a thread about a wedding as well and at this point feel a bit weddinged out so to speak, but have given these things a lot of thought. Basically, I wouldn’t go if I were you. The couple obviously don’t have a clue about the importance of this act. They have no respect for God and no intention of doing anything to have a Catholic marriage and family. This is obviously an empty symbol, something they are doing for the wrong reasons. I agree with you, the Church should not allow these things.
It is so difficult to stand up for the faith when it comes to family. But this situation seriously seems in very poor taste.

Good luck!