Catholic, what do you call yourself?

[Della]

I think this helps to actually illustrate Peter J’s point.*** It is not more extreme for a Catholic to insist on being called “Christian.” Catholics are the biggest Christian group and comprise about 50% of all Christians. If you put the names of every Christian in a bowl and randomly pick one out, the most likely result is that you will pick a Catholic’s name. Yet, most people that simply identify as “Christian” see a Catholic identifying as only “Christian” as more extreme, because they have an underlying assumption that Catholicism is not really Christian to the full extent that Protestantism is. There is a certain dismissiveness in that assumption that can be arguably called “extreme.”

From my own personal experience**, when someone insists on just being called “Christian,” the following assumption are accurate most of the time:

• their beliefs fall within the boundaries of what is generally recognised as Evangelical Protestantism;
• they are wary of Catholicism and High Church Protestantism, because those people “don’t seem very Christian;”
• they have a very poor grasp of history, and often care little about it;
• they have a poor understanding of theology, so it probably doesn’t make to sense to claim allegiance to a specific church anyway, because they probably couldn’t be bothered to learn what they are supposed to believe.*

*I suspect this last point is often the real reason most people eschew denominational labels. It means they might need to know something about theology. It is much easy to just say “Christian,” then not have to know anything too difficult for a middle schooler to grasp.

** For the sake of full disclosure, my personal experience consists of about two decades as a Protestant and seven years as an Orthodox Christian.

***It illustrates it because those just identifying as Catholic do necessarily have comparably dismissive and sectarian assumptions.

Whereas you don’t? After the dismissive things you just wrote about Evangelicals/those who identify themselves merely as Christian?

 

[Zabdi_Premjit]

Whereas you don’t? After the dismissive things you just wrote about Evangelicals/those who identify themselves merely as Christian?

1. Please clarify why you bolded that last sentence.
2. I didn’t say anything dismissive. I made observations and commented based on them. That is not dismissveness.

 

[Peter_J]

I think this helps to actually illustrate Peter J’s point.*** It is not more extreme for a Catholic to insist on being called “Christian.” Catholics are the biggest Christian group and comprise about 50% of all Christians. If you put the names of every Christian in a bowl and randomly pick one out, the most likely result is that you will pick a Catholic’s name. Yet, most people that simply identify as “Christian” see a Catholic identifying as only “Christian” as more extreme, because they have an underlying assumption that Catholicism is not really Christian to the full extent that Protestantism is. There is a certain dismissiveness in that assumption that can be arguably called “extreme.”

From my own personal experience**, when someone insists on just being called “Christian,” the following assumption are accurate most of the time:

• their beliefs fall within the boundaries of what is generally recognised as Evangelical Protestantism;
• they are wary of Catholicism and High Church Protestantism, because those people “don’t seem very Christian;”
• they have a very poor grasp of history, and often care little about it;
• they have a poor understanding of theology, so it probably doesn’t make to sense to claim allegiance to a specific church anyway, because they probably couldn’t be bothered to learn what they are supposed to believe.*

*I suspect this last point is often the real reason most people eschew denominational labels. It means they might need to know something about theology. It is much easy to just say “Christian,” then not have to know anything too difficult for a middle schooler to grasp.

** For the sake of full disclosure, my personal experience consists of about two decades as a Protestant and seven years as an Orthodox Christian.

***It illustrates it because those just identifying as Catholic do necessarily have comparably dismissive and sectarian assumptions.

IDK. Even though you qualified it as “most of the time” some of that seems exaggerated, (e.g.

• they have a poor understanding of theology, so it probably doesn’t make to sense to claim allegiance to a specific church anyway, because they probably couldn’t be bothered to learn what they are supposed to believe.*)

 

[Peter_J]

It depends on what the person’s affiliation is IMO. So, I would actually make me think it was more extreme for a Catholic to insist on only being called “Christian” as opposed to a Protestant insisting on only being called “Christian.” If that makes sense.

Though, I though of this thread as I was reading the signed joint declaration from the Russian Patriarch and the Pope, I was struck by the repeated use of the “simple” descriptor; Christian. Isn’t it a word that does unite most of us Baptized believers? So, perhaps that may become more common, though I don’t think qualifiers should or will disappear.

You bring up another good issue.

Often times a group would like to be strongly associated with a particular descriptor, but isn’t. (E.g. Lutherans wanting to be called “Catholic”.) I don’t put just “Christian” in my profile, b/c I prefer to be more specific but also b/c readers might assume I’m Protestant.

Of course, it doesn’t help that occasionally Catholics have answered “Are you Christian?” with “I’m Catholic” without first saying Yes to the question.

 

[Zabdi_Premjit]

IDK. Even though you qualified it as “most of the time” some of that seems exaggerated, (e.g.

• they have a poor understanding of theology, so it probably doesn’t make to sense to claim allegiance to a specific church anyway, because they probably couldn’t be bothered to learn what they are supposed to believe.*)

It is as an accurate reflection of my personal experience. Maybe you have had a different experience. I won’t say that my comments are based on extensive, scientific research, but it does reflect what I have observed in my personal interactions.

 

[Zabdi_Premjit]

You bring up another good issue.

Often times a group would like to be strongly associated with a particular descriptor, but isn’t. (E.g. Lutherans wanting to be called “Catholic”.) I don’t put just “Christian” in my profile, b/c I prefer to be more specific but also b/c readers might assume I’m Protestant.

Of course, it doesn’t help that occasionally Catholics have answered “Are you Christian?” with “I’m Catholic” without first saying Yes to the question.

It also doesn’t help that I’ve sadly heard someone say, “I am Christian. Well…actually…not really Christian. I am Catholic.” :ehh:

 

[Kliska]

I think this helps to actually illustrate Peter J’s point.*** It is not more extreme for a Catholic to insist on being called “Christian.” Catholics are the biggest Christian group and comprise about 50% of all Christians. If you put the names of every Christian in a bowl and randomly pick one out, the most likely result is that you will pick a Catholic’s name. Yet, most people that simply identify as “Christian” see a Catholic identifying as only “Christian” as more extreme, because they have an underlying assumption that Catholicism is not really Christian to the full extent that Protestantism is. There is a certain dismissiveness in that assumption that can be arguably called “extreme.”

From my own personal experience**, when someone insists on just being called “Christian,” the following assumption are accurate most of the time:

• their beliefs fall within the boundaries of what is generally recognised as Evangelical Protestantism;
• they are wary of Catholicism and High Church Protestantism, because those people “don’t seem very Christian;”
• they have a very poor grasp of history, and often care little about it;
• they have a poor understanding of theology, so it probably doesn’t make to sense to claim allegiance to a specific church anyway, because they probably couldn’t be bothered to learn what they are supposed to believe.*

*I suspect this last point is often the real reason most people eschew denominational labels. It means they might need to know something about theology. It is much easy to just say “Christian,” then not have to know anything too difficult for a middle schooler to grasp.

** For the sake of full disclosure, my personal experience consists of about two decades as a Protestant and seven years as an Orthodox Christian.

***It illustrates it because those just identifying as Catholic do necessarily have comparably dismissive and sectarian assumptions.

I think you and I have a different definition we are applying here to “extreme.” If I meet a Catholic, most of the time if it comes up and someone asks them, “Are you a Christian?” the reply is, “I’m Catholic” (as Peter also commented on). So, from my POV, this has nothing to do with with people not thinking Catholics are Christian, but rather I think it would say more about them as a Catholic if they simply said “Yes, I’m a Christian” than if a Protestant answered the same way. It’s not “good or bad” but it would be more of an extreme departure from the “norm.”

 

[chaunceygardner]

I call myself Catholic, period. Others may add something to that, which has happened in the past on this forum. I could probably check off four of the choices on the list, but could not isolate just one.

If I absolutely had to choose, I would pick “Vatican II Catholic”, but would then add Vatican I Catholic, Trent Catholic, etc., as my Catholicism is built on the entire history of the Church, not just one time period or event.

If I could add a category, it would be “21st century Catholic”, since that could imply a culmination of all that has transpired in 2000 years, but especially in my lifetime.

 

[Zabdi_Premjit]

I think you and I have a different definition we are applying here to “extreme.” If I meet a Catholic, most of the time if it comes up and someone asks them, “Are you a Christian?” the reply is, “I’m Catholic” (as Peter also commented on). So, from my POV, this has nothing to do with with people not thinking Catholics are Christian, but rather I think it would say more about them as a Catholic if they simply said “Yes, I’m a Christian” than if a Protestant answered the same way. It’s not “good or bad” but it would be more of an extreme departure from the “norm.”

Do you live in the US, Kliska? Because the reason they answer “Catholic” is because “Christian” without qualification is assumed to mean “Protestant.” Why do you think that assumption exists? American society has a long history of anti-Catholicism, and for much of American history, it was quite common for people to very openly treat Catholics as non-Christians. Even now, many Protestants do not consider them Christian in the full sense of the word. I have heard them called idolaters and polytheists. Someone even told me that the Mary that Catholics “worship” is not really Mary, but is the Whore of Babylon; however, Catholic clergy try to cover that up so people don’t know. I have heard someone say that they became Evangelical after being raised Lutheran, because it wasn’t really Christian, since it was “too Catholic.” There are still a lot of people that think Catholicism was founded by Constantine, when he corrupted Christianity by blending it with Sun Worship.

What do you expect Catholics to have done? Should they have said, “I am Christian,” then sit there knowing that, because Protestants are the real Christians, they will be assumed to be Protestant? Then suddenly they will hear the anti-Catholic jokes, which they will be assumed to find funny, since “Christians” find them funny? They will hear how the Pope is the Antichrist and worships the Whore of Babylon, which will be assumed to be of no surprise to them, because “Christians” should know that? Yes, American Protestants have gotten better, and I believe they are still getting better, but that history of prejudice is not without its influence.

So, yes, the fact that Catholics generally answer “Are you Christian?” with “I am Catholic,” is because of a long American history of not considering Catholics to be Christian in the full sense. In American usage, the word “Christian,” when used alone, is assumed to to mean “Protestant” precisely because of the influence anti-Catholicism has had on American society. If that history of anti-Catholic hatred is not extreme to you, then okay. If the fact that the usage of “Christian” by itself leads people to assume “Protestant,” due to the word being coloured by a history of extreme prejudice, is not extreme to you, then okay. We really do have different meanings of the word “extreme.”

Also, if you think that the association of identifying as “Christian” alone and being Protestant has nothing to do with the perception of whether Catholics are truly Christians, then you don’t have a good understanding of history, or the evolution of languages, or of the lasting impact prejudice can have on a society.

 

[Kliska]

Do you live in the US, Kliska? Because the reason they answer “Catholic” is because “Christian” without qualification is assumed to mean “Protestant.” Why do you think that assumption exists? American society has a long history of anti-Catholicism, and for much of American history, it was quite common for people to very openly treat Catholics as non-Christians. Even now, many Protestants do not consider them Christian in the full sense of the word. I have heard them called idolaters and polytheists. Someone even told me that the Mary that Catholics “worship” is not really Mary, but is the Whore of Babylon; however, Catholic clergy try to cover that up so people don’t know. I have heard someone say that they became Evangelical after being raised Lutheran, because it wasn’t really Christian, since it was “too Catholic.” There are still a lot of people that think Catholicism was founded by Constantine, when he corrupted Christianity by blending it with Sun Worship.

What do you expect Catholics to have done? Should they have said, “I am Christian,” then sit there knowing that, because Protestants are the real Christians, they will be assumed to be Protestant? Then suddenly they will hear the anti-Catholic jokes, which they will be assumed to find funny, since “Christians” find them funny? They will hear how the Pope is the Antichrist and worships the Whore of Babylon, which will be assumed to be of no surprise to them, because “Christians” should know that? Yes, American Protestants have gotten better, and I believe they are still getting better, but that history of prejudice is not without its influence.

So, yes, the fact that Catholics generally answer “Are you Christian?” with “I am Catholic,” is because of a long American history of not considering Catholics to be Christian in the full sense. In American usage, the word “Christian,” when used alone, is assumed to to mean “Protestant” precisely because of the influence anti-Catholicism has had on American society. If that history of anti-Catholic hatred is not extreme to you, then okay. If the fact that the usage of “Christian” by itself leads people to assume “Protestant,” due to the word being coloured by a history of extreme prejudice, is not extreme to you, then okay. We really do have different meanings of the word “extreme.”

Also, if you think that the association of identifying as “Christian” alone and being Protestant has nothing to do with the perception of whether Catholics are truly Christians, then you don’t have a good understanding of history, or the evolution of languages, or of the lasting impact prejudice can have on a society.

This has nothing to do with what I was saying. I apologize, I must not be explaining my point clearly.

 

[Peter_J]

Do you live in the US, Kliska? Because the reason they answer “Catholic” is because “Christian” without qualification is assumed to mean “Protestant.” Why do you think that assumption exists? American society has a long history of anti-Catholicism, and for much of American history, it was quite common for people to very openly treat Catholics as non-Christians. Even now, many Protestants do not consider them Christian in the full sense of the word. I have heard them called idolaters and polytheists. Someone even told me that the Mary that Catholics “worship” is not really Mary, but is the Whore of Babylon; however, Catholic clergy try to cover that up so people don’t know. I have heard someone say that they became Evangelical after being raised Lutheran, because it wasn’t really Christian, since it was “too Catholic.” There are still a lot of people that think Catholicism was founded by Constantine, when he corrupted Christianity by blending it with Sun Worship.

What do you expect Catholics to have done? Should they have said, “I am Christian,” then sit there knowing that, because Protestants are the real Christians, they will be assumed to be Protestant? Then suddenly they will hear the anti-Catholic jokes, which they will be assumed to find funny, since “Christians” find them funny? They will hear how the Pope is the Antichrist and worships the Whore of Babylon, which will be assumed to be of no surprise to them, because “Christians” should know that? Yes, American Protestants have gotten better, and I believe they are still getting better, but that history of prejudice is not without its influence.

So, yes, the fact that Catholics generally answer “Are you Christian?” with “I am Catholic,” is because of a long American history of not considering Catholics to be Christian in the full sense. In American usage, the word “Christian,” when used alone, is assumed to to mean “Protestant” precisely because of the influence anti-Catholicism has had on American society. If that history of anti-Catholic hatred is not extreme to you, then okay. If the fact that the usage of “Christian” by itself leads people to assume “Protestant,” due to the word being coloured by a history of extreme prejudice, is not extreme to you, then okay. We really do have different meanings of the word “extreme.”

Also, if you think that the association of identifying as “Christian” alone and being Protestant has nothing to do with the perception of whether Catholics are truly Christians, then you don’t have a good understanding of history, or the evolution of languages, or of the lasting impact prejudice can have on a society.

I think this is getting a little far from the topic of the thread, but definitely I agree that anti-Catholic Protestants exist. Of course, though, it varies a lot from one Protestant to another just like some Catholic are more anti-Protestant than others.

As far as

Of course, it doesn’t help that occasionally Catholics have answered “Are you Christian?” with “I’m Catholic” without first saying Yes to the question.

I meant as opposed to answering with “Yes. I’m Catholic. [How about you?]”, or something equivalent.

 

[Della]

1. Please clarify why you bolded that last sentence.
2. I didn’t say anything dismissive. I made observations and commented based on them. That is not dismissveness.

Your observations were quite dismissive. And then to state that Catholics are more dismissive than others was just plain ironic.

 

[Zabdi_Premjit]

Your observations were quite dismissive. And then to state that Catholics are more dismissive than others was just plain ironic.

The observations weren’t dismissive. You may not have agreed with me, but that doesn’t make them dismissive…

I never said Catholic are more dismissive than others.I made a typo and put " do" instead of “do not.” I think that should have been obvious, given everything else written in the post…

 

[Peter_J]

The observations weren’t dismissive. You may not have agreed with me, but that doesn’t make them dismissive…

I never said Catholic are more dismissive than others.I made a typo and put " do" instead of “do not.” I think that should have been obvious, given everything else written in the post…

I did wonder about that part,

***It illustrates it because those just identifying as Catholic do necessarily have comparably dismissive and sectarian assumptions.

as it seemed strongly out of keeping with the tone of the rest of the post, but I can’t say it was obvious that it was a typo.
My two cents.

 

[Marie5890]

Disciple of Christ.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Why isn’t Pharisaical Catholic an option? Hmpf! :dts:

OP - you left out Pelagian Catholic and Gnostic Catholic!

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Currently non-practicing Roman Catholic. For one reason because I learned on CAF that I can not hold the political views I do (favor marital civil rights for SS couples for instance) and be a practicing Catholic. So after I was pushed enough away, I figured why even bother to practice in other ways if I am not one. And I’ve yet to join another faith community. Although I know that wouldn’t matter to the Catholic Church according to OCAC.

One doesn’t “learn” anything on CAF except where other individuals are at, speaking for themselves.

Being a Christian whether Catholic or any other denomination is NOT about HOLDING a political view. It might come into the picture of whether you were for instance heavily engaged in manipulating or maneouvring lots of people. Even then it is very difficult to pin down what anyone could do about it, if they should.

As for practising we have to judge our own practicalities.

I have found I can be a Catholic and a member of as many churches as I like as long as I don’t mix up the sacraments.

View yourself and other individuals objectively, and look yourself in the eye.

 

[Peter_J]

One doesn’t “learn” anything on CAF except where other individuals are at, speaking for themselves.

That could (of course) be said about almost any website.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

The trouble with “polls” on message boards is that only one option may be chosen.

For most of us, the combination of terms would be very interesting.

I’m all the above, except perhaps “-ist”, and that for a “Liberal” I’m not very conventional.

But especially, God’s Real Cafeteria!

Eat everything on the menu, but not all at once!

(And you are allowed to dodge garlic and chillies.)

Keep coming back!

 

[jeannetherese]

Do you live in the US, Kliska? Because the reason they answer “Catholic” is because “Christian” without qualification is assumed to mean “Protestant.”

Hi Zabdi.
My experience does not fit with this assertion.
I grew up using the words Catholic and Christian as interchangeable nouns and would not have put them together as that would have sounded redundant to me.
Perhaps experiences vary from place to place?
May God bless you and all who visit our thread.
Amen.