Catholicism – Too Feminized?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ShadowBoxer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Norseman82 said:
I also grew up in an emotionally explosive environment, but I came to realize that avoiding conflict simply made matters worse.
Click to expand...
Confrontation and conflict are not synonymous.

Maturity is being able to confront people and advocate for yourself in hopes of avoiding, or at least minimizing conflict.

Avoiding conflict and keeping the peace is the only way most Americans can get through the holidays or maintain ties to their extended family. Flaring tempers and unnecessary power struggles ruin relationships.

Being a doormat is of course just as bad, in different ways. But judging from OtH’s last line, he’s far from a doormat;)
 
pensmama87 said:
Huh, those sound lower than when I was in high school, too (early 2000s). Or maybe I’m just less shockable now.
Click to expand...
No, I think they really are lower.

Which is a very good thing, but not the complete story. They were higher earlier, in part because decay had just set in (my theory). Now it’s fully set in which means more knowledge is there, but because of all the negative consequences there are more who are acting in accordance with the knowledge. But that doesn’t mean that a full sense of Faith and Morals has been accepted so much as the conduct has become routine to a fashion, so I don’t think we can take too much comfort in that. That is, there may be a reduction in the conduct, but at the same time a reduction in the feeling that it’s wrong. One of the oddities of youthful misconduct in this area is that in part had a bit of a thrill in being associated with wildly improper conduct. That’s now gone. Any sense of shame associated with sinful conduct in this area has completely evaporated.

But we can take some hope from the change in conduct over time.
 
Yeoman said:
No, I think they rally are lower.

Which is a very good thing, but not the complete story. They were higher earlier, in part because decay had just set in (my theory). Now it’s fully set in which means more knowledge is there, but because of all the negative consequences there are more who are acting in accordance with the knowledge. But that doesn’t mean that a full sense of Faith and Morals has been accepted so much as the conduct has become routine to a fashion, so I don’t think we can take too much comfort in that.

But we can take some.
Click to expand...
Teenagers aren’t driving or working as much (hence sexting versus sex). Also, I think good parents parent harder than they did back in the 1970s and work harder at making sure kids are kept busy and out of trouble. That’s the silver-lining of all the helicoptering and sports mania that everybody makes fun of.

Also, I think there’s now a lot less social tolerance of sexual relationships between adults and teenagers, which can be a particularly physically and emotionally dangerous situation for teens. (There’s a radio guy that does a really funny bit where he plays bits of 70s songs and notes how many of them are about physical relationships with underage girls–it’s really creepy when you hear all of them at once.)
 
Yeoman said:
As in “we are Catholic, not Protestants and not Mormons”.
Click to expand...
I’m not with you, because of course we aren’t Protestants or Mormons, but how often does that really come up in daily conversation at a Catholic parish?

Is someone trying to take out the kneelers to make room for cup-holders in the pews? 🤷
 
pensmama87 said:
Huh, those sound lower than when I was in high school, too (early 2000s). Or maybe I’m just less shockable now.
Click to expand...
If there is less alcohol or drug abuse among high school students, there will be less sex.
(Actually, this is probably true of most age groups with any ability and opportunity to have sex on impulse.)
 
Xantippe said:
Teenagers aren’t driving or working as much (hence sexting versus sex). Also, I think good parents parent harder than they did back in the 1970s and work harder at making sure kids are kept busy and out of trouble. That’s the silver-lining of all the helicoptering and sports mania that everybody makes fun of.

Also, I think there’s now a lot less social tolerance of sexual relationships between adults and teenagers, which can be a particularly physically and emotionally dangerous situation for teens. (There’s a radio guy that does a really funny bit where he plays bits of 70s songs and notes how many of them are about physical relationships with underage girls–it’s really creepy when you hear all of them at once.)
Click to expand...
Yes, getting rid of sexual predators will also reduce sexual acting-out by underage and young people. The plan to get more education also reduces sexual activity among unmarried people.
 
ShadowBoxer said:
True. Here are few professions that come to my mind right away besides housewife that I believe women in general are naturally better suited for: Nurse, teacher, social worker, therapist, interior decorator/designer.
Click to expand...
We need men in these areas as well ESPECIALLY teaching. Sorry, I know this is off topic but teachers are often mentors…and boys in the classroom need mentors of the same sex too. This is actually a problem facing education today.
 
I’ve noticed in the past 20 years ago that there’s an element in the Church that seems to equate masculinity with foppishness, unrelenting fault finding, and being easily offended.

It always blows my mind that it takes other people years (if ever) and sometimes multiple scandals to figure out this is the stuff narcissists are made of; not that which makes one a “manly man.”
 
DaddyGirl said:
He uses the number of female altar servers as one example of the church being “too feminized” so he himself is addressing the number of females “active” in certain positions at the church as an example of “feminization”.
.
Click to expand...
Yes. Somehow the number of female persons on the altar is evidence for feminization, but the number of male popes, cardinals, priests and deacons is not evidence against feminization…

Or maybe the idea is that girl cooties are so incredibly contagious that even a tiny amount of contagion will successfully infect or contaminate the entire Church. That works logically, but it’s a view that doesn’t convey a lot of esteem and love for women.
 
also big LOLs at the problem being we don’t hear enough about men because we don’t talk about St. Joseph. I think there might be another man that figures prominently in the Gospel somewhere…if only I could recall his name…
 
PPeterson said:
also big LOLs at the problem being we don’t hear enough about men because we don’t talk about St. Joseph. I think there might be another man that figures prominently in the Gospel somewhere…if only I could recall his name…
Click to expand...
That is a very good point.
 
Xantippe said:
Yes. Somehow the number of female persons on the altar is evidence for feminization, but the number of male popes, cardinals, priests and deacons is not evidence against feminization…

Or maybe the idea is that girl cooties are so incredibly contagious that even a tiny amount of contagion will successfully infect or contaminate the entire Church. That works logically, but it’s a view that doesn’t convey a lot of esteem and love for women.
Click to expand...
Oh, please, not this one again. Are you saying that choosing only men to be among the Twelve “doesn’t convey a lot of esteem and love for women,” then? Do you think Our Lord subscribed to the Doctrine of Cooties? Please do not trot out the “He was a prisoner of his times” rationalization.

Think what you want about Christianity’s distinctions between men and women, but please let’s not pretend that this was something invented after the Ascension.
 
No, actually I think that’s the approach Cardinal Burke is taking. Cardinal Burke would presumably have seen the prevalence of women among Jesus’s followers and in the early Church as a sign of “feminization.”
EasterJoy said:
Oh, please, not this one again. Are you saying that choosing only men to be among the Twelve “doesn’t convey a lot of esteem and love for women,” then? Do you think Our Lord subscribed to the Doctrine of Cooties? Please do not trot out the “He was a prisoner of his times” rationalization.

Think what you want about Christianity’s distinctions between men and women, but please let’s not pretend that this was something invented after the Ascension.
Click to expand...
 
EasterJoy said:
Oh, please, not this one again. Are you saying that choosing only men to be among the Twelve “doesn’t convey a lot of esteem and love for women,” then? Do you think Our Lord subscribed to the Doctrine of Cooties? Please do not trot out the “He was a prisoner of his times” rationalization.

Think what you want about Christianity’s distinctions between men and women, but please let’s not pretend that this was something invented after the Ascension.
Click to expand...
Where’d you get that impression?
I’ve never seen that in any of her posts. :eek:
 
EasterJoy said:
Think what you want about Christianity’s distinctions between men and women, but please let’s not pretend that this was something invented after the Ascension.
Click to expand...
Would you be willing to stop “pretending” that choosing 12 male apostles is a clear statement that women can never succeed those apostles?
 
PPeterson said:
Would you be willing to stop “pretending” that choosing 12 male apostles is a clear statement that women can never succeed those apostles?
Click to expand...
It would be an empty pretense to maintain that women may ever succeed the apostles in the episcopal office, including the priesthood.

*Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32)** I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held** by all the Church’s faithful.*

–Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, “On Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men Alone,” May 22, 1994

Please also see references therein.

This is a bit off of the topic of the “masculine” and the “feminine,” in spite of what feminists think.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top