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LittleSoldier
Guest
That’s a good website. I’m glad you found what you were looking for.
- Status
Perhaps we should simply stick to the single step cause and effects then.
Forget trying to make a regulation based upon some climate model or projection and instead focus on what we know directly causes harm to other people.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
I don’t know if that’s possible, but it sounds good. I think.
It is very possible.I don’t know if that’s possible, but it sounds good. I think.
Just difficult.
There will be a non-ending line of people standing in the way as it will directly interfere with one agenda or another.
Simply focus on what is known to be a harm to people.
Not a society, not a population, but just people.
This would prevent any type of cooked science book trying to dictate policy in favor of a straightforward approach that I doubt anyone can object to.
In very general tems, my approach is this.
If your employees are subject to hazerds, they should be fully aware of the hazerds and how to minimize them. And they should have ample opportunity to seek employment elsewhere if the condition is simply not acceptable to them.
And if your business poses any dangers to people not directly related to the business, it should be removed or fully disclosed and avoidable.
D
Dakota_Roberts
Guest
I think if everyone spent two years in the Peace Corps there would be much understanding of the environment and also it would help treat this sickness called “materialism”.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
I agree. I’ve often thought about joining but I don’t think they want me as I require more care than I can give (which is a constant source of frustration for me).
J
John21652
Guest
Raskolnikov, you had me worried there for a moment. My confidence took a wee dent and so I went and sought affirmation from those on the left of the political spectrum, Genghis kahn and Attila the Hun. They said I have nothing to fear and I’m still politically sound!!What do you propose as a solution to this dissociation from nature? That we all move back out to the country and reorient ourselves to agricultural life? Our dissociation from nature, as well as all our ‘bureaucracies’, are simply the result of the division of labor that, whatever its side effects, has driven the increasing economic prosperity of modern capitalist economies for two centuries. We all live clustered together in cities and suburbs, each playing a specialized role in society, and leave all the other chores to other people to whom those specialized roles belong. So of course doctors and engineers can’t dispose of their own garbage, grow their own vegetables, and slaughter their own meat; if they could, or if they had to, they wouldn’t be as good of doctors or engineers. Thus, they rely on others to handle all the other tasks.
And also, bring around nature doesn’t necessarily mean one is much better informed about environmental problems. I’ve been to countless national parks in every corner of this country, though especially parks in the northwest (I’ve been to Glacier National Park several times), yet that doesn’t exactly make me qualified to expound on how fast the glaciers are melting and what effect this may have.
Giant wind turbines are perhaps best explained as phallic symbols meant to convey the message: “our university’s green program is bigger than yours.” I have a big giant windmill on my campus. One nice thing about it is that it’s so tall I can find my way back to campus if I get lost anywhere within a few miles. Personally, I think nuclear power is more promising.
Others, by the way, have similarly questioned the division of labor and called urbanites to return to nature: “In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticize after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic.” – Karl Marx.
If I didn’t know any better, John, I just might suspect you of being a communist.
Just kidding.
If you have another read of what I wrote, I was merely being ‘descriptive’, not ‘prescriptive’. Yes, indeed the division of labour is now more than pronounced than at any time in history, but that wasn’t my point. My point was the ‘division’ of much of the human population from the natural world. Therefore it isn’t so much a division of labour that is the problem, but a loss of knowledge. Because of the loss of first hand experience of the natural environment, there is therefore a greater reliance upon gaining that knowledge from others. Unfortunately, as we have seen, not all the “knowledge” of others is true knowledge, but speculation.
I was not advocating a return to any sort of agrarian socialist paradise. Most people would soon give up the notion of some sort of bucolic rural existence if they had to kill their own meat and bury their own sewerage!
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
Quote of the Week:
“It will, without doubt, have come to your Lordship’s knowledge that a considerable change of climate,
inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of
the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable
barrier of ice, has been during the last two years greatly abated. This affords ample proof that new
sources of warmth have been opened, and give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be
more accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them,
not only interesting to the advancement of science, but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the
commerce of distant nations.” Sir Joseph Banks, President of the Royal Society, on 20 November 1817 to
their Lordships of the Admiralty. The referenced period covered the reduction of ice in the prior two
years, one the infamous Year Without a Summer 1816 . It was in the Dalton Solar Minimum, a time of
unusual cold and snow in middle latitudes. [From ICECAP]
source: www.sepp.org TWTW 1/29/11
“It will, without doubt, have come to your Lordship’s knowledge that a considerable change of climate,
inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of
the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable
barrier of ice, has been during the last two years greatly abated. This affords ample proof that new
sources of warmth have been opened, and give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be
more accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them,
not only interesting to the advancement of science, but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the
commerce of distant nations.” Sir Joseph Banks, President of the Royal Society, on 20 November 1817 to
their Lordships of the Admiralty. The referenced period covered the reduction of ice in the prior two
years, one the infamous Year Without a Summer 1816 . It was in the Dalton Solar Minimum, a time of
unusual cold and snow in middle latitudes. [From ICECAP]
source: www.sepp.org TWTW 1/29/11
S
silentstar
Guest
I hope you are kidding
- I have a degree in physics and worked for the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission for about a year writing papers about high-level waste disposal at Yucca Mountain, which I think is still being argued, before moving to the US Environmental Protection Agency. I like math. 
I do think global warming is a problem. However I don’t think stirring up panic with visions of apocalyptic nightmare is a good idea b/c that gets people upset and sometimes, feeling like the problem is so overwhelming that they can’t do anything. I feel the same way about all of the predictions for widespread disaster via nuclear warfare. It could happen but panicking about it is a good way to waste your life, now my father worked for the Naval Surface Warfare Center for a long time and people do need to learn how to get along and manage the weapons we have. But the truth is we collectively on this planet could have WW3 and there is little that individuals can do other than live our lives and, as physicist Stephen Hawking suggests, work on developing space travel.
The actor Alan Alda among other people has put stuff in print expressing his fear of the “end of the world” so to speak via nuclear war and I agree with some anti-terror experts who say that the benefit of warning people needs to be weighed against the risks of causing fear by issuing a warning when the threat is vague and ambiguous. With global warming I think it is more of a clear problem but still, I don’t think focusing people on visions of disaster is helpful. Not to bury your head in the sand but also not to generate fear in a way that leaves people helpless.
I do think we collectively need to take action now against global warming; my husband and I were talking about it the other day. I don’t expect to convince anyone b/c among other things, he is asleep right now and can’t give references, but he believes that the trend is worse than the computer models are showing. He works for NASA where a lot of that work is generated although he tests equipment for use in space, which is not related to global warming.
I support the use of nuclear power; I think it’s one of the most promising alternatives available.
J
John21652
Guest
Here’s another example of just how silly and stupid the Global Warming faith has become.
An environmental activist has blamed the riots and demonstrations in Egypt on Global Warming.
I kid you not. Read it here - How climate change is contributing to Egyption protests.
He bases his arguments on nonsense. He tells us that food prices are escalating because global warming is making food production more difficult and therefore more expensive. Research is showing that plants are thriving like never before thanks to CO2 and the Food and if you go here you will see that world food harvests and stocks are in pretty good shape.
What out intrepid greeny activist/global warming alarmist fails to tell anyone in his article is that in Egypt, which is a heavy importer of food, food staples are heavily .subsidised.
An environmental activist has blamed the riots and demonstrations in Egypt on Global Warming.
I kid you not. Read it here - How climate change is contributing to Egyption protests.
He bases his arguments on nonsense. He tells us that food prices are escalating because global warming is making food production more difficult and therefore more expensive. Research is showing that plants are thriving like never before thanks to CO2 and the Food and if you go here you will see that world food harvests and stocks are in pretty good shape.
What out intrepid greeny activist/global warming alarmist fails to tell anyone in his article is that in Egypt, which is a heavy importer of food, food staples are heavily .subsidised.
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
The studies about Yucca Mountain have been ongoing for decades.I hope you are kidding
I do think global warming is a problem. However I don’t think stirring up panic with visions of apocalyptic nightmare is a good idea b/c that gets people upset and sometimes, feeling like the problem is so overwhelming that they can’t do anything. I feel the same way about all of the predictions for widespread disaster via nuclear warfare. It could happen but panicking about it is a good way to waste your life, now my father worked for the Naval Surface Warfare Center for a long time and people do need to learn how to get along and manage the weapons we have. But the truth is we collectively on this planet could have WW3 and there is little that individuals can do other than live our lives and, as physicist Stephen Hawking suggests, work on developing space travel.
The actor Alan Alda among other people has put stuff in print expressing his fear of the “end of the world” so to speak via nuclear war and I agree with some anti-terror experts who say that the benefit of warning people needs to be weighed against the risks of causing fear by issuing a warning when the threat is vague and ambiguous. With global warming I think it is more of a clear problem but still, I don’t think focusing people on visions of disaster is helpful. Not to bury your head in the sand but also not to generate fear in a way that leaves people helpless.
I do think we collectively need to take action now against global warming; my husband and I were talking about it the other day. I don’t expect to convince anyone b/c among other things, he is asleep right now and can’t give references, but he believes that the trend is worse than the computer models are showing. He works for NASA where a lot of that work is generated although he tests equipment for use in space, which is not related to global warming.
I support the use of nuclear power; I think it’s one of the most promising alternatives available.
The facility is substantially built, but the studies continue.
AND France and other nuclear energy countries are reprocessing their depleted nuclear fuels, instead of burying them.
The problem with AGW is that there are 30 problems with AGW and none of them have been addressed. Just one is enough to sink AGW … if you filed your tax return and the IRS said there were 30 problems, you would have to resolve ALL of the 30 problems.
Just look at the thousands of emails from East Anglia over the 10 year period … revealing a continuous and on-going coordinated effort by the “AGW-ers” to deceive the public, to stonewall, and then finally to destroy the original data … deliberately.
Whether it is Alan Alda or Al Gore, they continuously use the most alarming stories, which we have finally just started calling “Polar Bear Stories”. And Polar Bear Stories are all that they have to work with.
The facts have left them. The computer models have betrayed them. The anecdotes have been shown to have huge holes in them.
The is no there there.
A
atmmgraves
Guest
AGW has been described as a religion, which is apt. I’d lean more toward some sort of cult.
The Earth is god to the True Believers. People are overpopulating their Earth, consuming its resources and polluting its atmosphere, and destroying it with their busy plans and freedoms and commerce. We are not sinners in this cult, oh no. We - human beings - are sin. We are what is to be controlled, from our birth rates to our consumption of resources to our diets to our basic freedoms of what we can and cannot do. We are sin and the acts we engage in which in my dad’s time would be simple living are absolutely frowned upon by our elites and indeed are coming scarily close to being criminalized. How about all of those regulations in California? How’s that state doing? How about those farmers whose land was turned to dust by True Believers because of a fish? How are they faring? The True Believers do not care. They have vanquished sin from that land. In their minds, and in their queer cult, they have simply performed an exorcism. My goodness, our president told the world that Americans could not eat what we wanted, keep our thermostats set on 72 degrees, drive our SUV’s, and think that the rest of the world was going to be okay with this.
The overwhelming majority of those who believe in AGW are pro-abortion and have socialist/communist leanings. You don’t need research; look who’s pushing this palaver and you can see for yourself if you are willing to look with honesty. AGW is the ultimate weapon for these tyrranical types, the new-age priests of the planet. Their church is the public school and the university. Their parishioners are legion, and while they do not have a savior, they have a god and it is Earth. And to them, my children are nothing but stains of sin upon it.
The Earth is god to the True Believers. People are overpopulating their Earth, consuming its resources and polluting its atmosphere, and destroying it with their busy plans and freedoms and commerce. We are not sinners in this cult, oh no. We - human beings - are sin. We are what is to be controlled, from our birth rates to our consumption of resources to our diets to our basic freedoms of what we can and cannot do. We are sin and the acts we engage in which in my dad’s time would be simple living are absolutely frowned upon by our elites and indeed are coming scarily close to being criminalized. How about all of those regulations in California? How’s that state doing? How about those farmers whose land was turned to dust by True Believers because of a fish? How are they faring? The True Believers do not care. They have vanquished sin from that land. In their minds, and in their queer cult, they have simply performed an exorcism. My goodness, our president told the world that Americans could not eat what we wanted, keep our thermostats set on 72 degrees, drive our SUV’s, and think that the rest of the world was going to be okay with this.
The overwhelming majority of those who believe in AGW are pro-abortion and have socialist/communist leanings. You don’t need research; look who’s pushing this palaver and you can see for yourself if you are willing to look with honesty. AGW is the ultimate weapon for these tyrranical types, the new-age priests of the planet. Their church is the public school and the university. Their parishioners are legion, and while they do not have a savior, they have a god and it is Earth. And to them, my children are nothing but stains of sin upon it.
J
John21652
Guest
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
This business of global warming causing food shortages is ALSO bogus because warmer temperatures cause crop yields to INCREASE, not to decrease.
In warmer climates, they get three crops per year. In colder climates they only get two. Not much grows in winter … “winter wheat” … but it is slow and painful to watch.
When I worked in the tropics, everything grew there. In profusion.
Even in “desert countries”, where they used irrigation, they got abundant crops.
The problems were that the dictator’s thugs stole the crops.
And they also found that the best irrigation techniques were learned from … Israel … and in Muslim countries, they do not like to copy techniques from Israel.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
Every group has radicals in it.
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
You know that saying: “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing?”
Well, as far as global warming is concerned, I have a little knowledge. The more I read the more I am starting to believe that global warming exists and that human beings are responsible for the problem.
Humans have shown they are not able to treat this planet with respect. When I moved to the town I live in it was clean here. Now I see trash and garbage all over the place. I would say that people act like pigs but that would be an insult to the pigs, who are truly innocent of any wrongdoing.
The more I read the more I am becoming convinced that humans are ruining this earth that God gave to us to foster.
The Great Coral Reef - why is it disappearing?
When flying to southern California, one can see a thick blanket of smog which hovers over a large area of several counties. Why is it there? Our children breathe this poison. It’s not getting better; it’s getting worse.
Why did the government stop its push for better mileage in cars? My first car got over 30 mpg - that was 25 years ago!! The car I have now gets about 20 mpg.
I honestly switch back and forth from confusion to anger over how humans, those creatures who have been given souls, seem to wreck everything they can. And it seems to all come down to money - the Almighty Dollar which is worshipped by most in place of God.
Sometimes I think the earth would be better off if every single human being were wiped off the face of the planet. Every one of us.
I’m not disagreeing with anyone here. I’m just expressing myself. Most humans just plain don’t care. They dump the cigarette butts from their car ashtrays out into the street and drive away, leaving the pile in front of my house. My neighbors smoke and then toss the butts over the fence into my yard (of course I toss them right back). People go to the beautiful beaches in my town and leave the trash and garbage from their nice picnic lunch on the sand. Why should they care? They’re not coming back.
Over the last fifteen years I’ve seen this beautiful town and the area surrounding it turn into a garbage dump. Trash and garbage everywhere. I try to pick up what I can but I can’t do much of that sort of thing.
The only places I’ve seen that are relatively clean are the areas where people hike. They carry out what they carried in.
I can’t wait to get out of here although I’m sure that where I’m moving will be just as bad.
Well, as far as global warming is concerned, I have a little knowledge. The more I read the more I am starting to believe that global warming exists and that human beings are responsible for the problem.
Humans have shown they are not able to treat this planet with respect. When I moved to the town I live in it was clean here. Now I see trash and garbage all over the place. I would say that people act like pigs but that would be an insult to the pigs, who are truly innocent of any wrongdoing.
The more I read the more I am becoming convinced that humans are ruining this earth that God gave to us to foster.
The Great Coral Reef - why is it disappearing?
When flying to southern California, one can see a thick blanket of smog which hovers over a large area of several counties. Why is it there? Our children breathe this poison. It’s not getting better; it’s getting worse.
Why did the government stop its push for better mileage in cars? My first car got over 30 mpg - that was 25 years ago!! The car I have now gets about 20 mpg.
I honestly switch back and forth from confusion to anger over how humans, those creatures who have been given souls, seem to wreck everything they can. And it seems to all come down to money - the Almighty Dollar which is worshipped by most in place of God.
Sometimes I think the earth would be better off if every single human being were wiped off the face of the planet. Every one of us.
I’m not disagreeing with anyone here. I’m just expressing myself. Most humans just plain don’t care. They dump the cigarette butts from their car ashtrays out into the street and drive away, leaving the pile in front of my house. My neighbors smoke and then toss the butts over the fence into my yard (of course I toss them right back). People go to the beautiful beaches in my town and leave the trash and garbage from their nice picnic lunch on the sand. Why should they care? They’re not coming back.
Over the last fifteen years I’ve seen this beautiful town and the area surrounding it turn into a garbage dump. Trash and garbage everywhere. I try to pick up what I can but I can’t do much of that sort of thing.
The only places I’ve seen that are relatively clean are the areas where people hike. They carry out what they carried in.
I can’t wait to get out of here although I’m sure that where I’m moving will be just as bad.
Well there was a typhoon not too long ago that I am sure caused damage.
Then there are other factors…natural cycles of climate, man made pollution, various sea creatures eating the reef itself.
Just keep in mind that man cannot be solely responsible for the reef entirely.
And also keep in mind it is likely the reef simply will not go away.
Perhaps because there is no wind blowing it around and dissipating it?
The city I live in will get huge clouds of haze throughout that burns our eyes, chokes us, and causes respiratory distress as well as headaches.
Of course, a weather front moving through clears the air.
As does rain.
The major problem is pollen.
Public outcry.
Historically there has been a direct correlation between MPG rating being mandated and the number of deaths in accidents.
For every MPG mandated, there was a corresponding increase in deaths.
As to the high mileage of a vehicle in the early 80’s, emmisions standards came into vogue about that time. The government mandated it, and the cars suddenly dropped MPG’s as a result.
I am antisocial as well, but I think this goes a bit far.
A
atmmgraves
Guest
Originally Posted by LittleSoldier
Sometimes I think the earth would be better off if every single human being were wiped off the face of the planet. Every one of us.
See my post above. Unfortunately, you have proven me a soothsayer.
Please, friend, stop reading so muchof this stuff, and understand full well that what you have been reading is really, at its core, propoganda. People with an agenda are putting out alarming stuff which all of it every bit is being proven wrong as we speak. Yet they keep doing it, despite the debunking of the “science” involved. Why? It’s not the planet, it’s not the air, the fish, the polar bears, dolphins, or the redwoods these people are concerned about; rather, it is about power. It is about moving the free and prosperous nations of the world away from individual-oriented, free-market democracies in which people reap the rewards of what we create and earn, into centralized economies in which we get what we are given by the very people telling you that you should be frightened about AGW. For your own good, start reading some dissenting opinions. A billion burning cigarette butts piled atop a huge pit of bubbling tar surrounded by a billion cows flatulating is not going to destroy the planet, nor is smog or an oil spill (Ever hear any more about that BP thing? Hmmm…) or me driving my truck which gets 15 miles to the gallon. For one to make the statement that “Sometimes I think the earth would be better off if every single human being were wiped off the face of the planet. Every one of us” truly is a tragic sign of the times. Godspeed.
Sometimes I think the earth would be better off if every single human being were wiped off the face of the planet. Every one of us.
See my post above. Unfortunately, you have proven me a soothsayer.
Please, friend, stop reading so muchof this stuff, and understand full well that what you have been reading is really, at its core, propoganda. People with an agenda are putting out alarming stuff which all of it every bit is being proven wrong as we speak. Yet they keep doing it, despite the debunking of the “science” involved. Why? It’s not the planet, it’s not the air, the fish, the polar bears, dolphins, or the redwoods these people are concerned about; rather, it is about power. It is about moving the free and prosperous nations of the world away from individual-oriented, free-market democracies in which people reap the rewards of what we create and earn, into centralized economies in which we get what we are given by the very people telling you that you should be frightened about AGW. For your own good, start reading some dissenting opinions. A billion burning cigarette butts piled atop a huge pit of bubbling tar surrounded by a billion cows flatulating is not going to destroy the planet, nor is smog or an oil spill (Ever hear any more about that BP thing? Hmmm…) or me driving my truck which gets 15 miles to the gallon. For one to make the statement that “Sometimes I think the earth would be better off if every single human being were wiped off the face of the planet. Every one of us” truly is a tragic sign of the times. Godspeed.
- Status