Catholicism and Climate Change

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My original question:
AHHhhhhhhhhh At what value is lambda figured at? 🙂
Ludwig Boltzmann’s law, lambda’s true value is just 0.22-0.3C per watt. A century old law ].
Now in In 2001, the UN effectively repealed the law, ** doubling lambda ** to 0.5C per watt.
Then A recent paper by James Hansen says lambda should be 0.67, 0.75 or 1C - :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Sir John Houghton, who chaired the UN’s scientific assessment working group until recently, put lambda at 0.8C
**That’s 3C for a 3.7-watt DOUBLING of airborne CO2. Most of the UN’s computer models have used 1C. **
And Stern implies 1.9C.
The bigger the value of lambda, the bigger the temperature increase the UN could predict.
On the UN’s figures:
The entire greenhouse-gas forcing in the 20th century was 2 watts.
Multiplying by the correct value of lambda gives a temperature increase of 0.44 to 0.6C, in line with observation.
But using Stern’s 1.9C per watt gives 3.8C.
Where did 85 per cent of his imagined 20th-century warming go? 😉
UK’s Hadley Center had the same problem, and solved it by dividing its modeled output by three to “predict” 20th-century temperature correctly.
Why does every other scientific field useing Ludwig Boltzmann’s law - Use lambda’s true value at just 0.22-0.3C per watt. BUT Climate Models don’t?
In Short: if you can’t find a common value for lambda…:confused:
 
As far as needing to be an expert - How much of an expert does one need to be to notice the “Bolivia Effect”?
One Small Problem with the anomally map. ** There has not been any thermometer data for Bolivia in GHCN since 1990.**
None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nothing. Empty Set.
So just how can it be so Hot Hot Hot! in Bolivia if there is NO data from the last 20 years?
Easy. GIStemp “makes it up” from “nearby” thermometers up to 1200 km away. So what is within 1200 km of Bolivia? The beaches of Chili, Peru and the Amazon Jungle.
Not exactly the same as snow capped peaks and high cold desert, but hey, you gotta make do with what you have, you know? (The official excuse given is that the data acceptance window closes on one day of the month and Bolivia does not report until after that date. Oh, and they never ever would want to go back and add date into the past after a close date. Yet they are happy to fiddle with, adjust, modify, and wholesale change and delete old data as they change their adjustment methods…)
The eastern side of Bolivia grades down into semi-tropical and eventually into the Amazon.


chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/ghcn-gistemp-interactions-the-bolivia-effect/
 
Or maybe these
Viewing the NASA 250-mile map for March below, what immediately grabs the attention is that NASA has essentially no data (gray areas) in most of Canada, most of Africa, the Greenland ice sheet, and most of Antarctica. This begs the question, how can one calculate an accurate “global temperature” while lacking any data from large contiguous regions of three continents?
So what was NASA missing?
http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/06/01/ghcn_giss_250km_anom03_2008_2008_1951_1980.jpgNASA Temperatures March, 2008 - 250-mile smoothing radius - looks hot

We can find NASA’s lost continents in the UAH satellite data for March below.
http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/06/01/uah_march_2008.jpgUAH Satellite Temperatures March, 2008 - looks cool

Not surprisingly, the missing areas in Canada and Africa were cold. The NASA data thus becomes disproportionately weighted towards warm areas - particularly in the northern hemisphere. As can be seen in the UAH satellite map above, the warm areas actually made up a relatively small percentage of the planet. The vast majority of the earth had normal temperatures or below. Given that NASA has lost track of a number of large cold regions, it is understandable that their averages are on the high side.
Additionally, NASA reports their global temperature measurements within one one-hundredth of a degree. This is a classic mathematics error, since they have no data from 20 per cent of the earth’s land area. The reported precision is much greater than the error bar - a mistake which has caused many a high school student to fail their exams.
theregister.co.uk/2008/06/05/goddard_nasa_thermometer/page2.html
 
Could these claims be the reason Former AGW’er Scientist are bailing?
Hansen supervisor takes aim at thermageddon
By Andrew Orlowski • Get more from this author
Posted in Environment, 28th January 2009 14:18 GMT
Free whitepaper – The Register Guide to Enterprise Virtualization
The retired scientist formerly in charge of key NASA climate programs has come out as a sceptic.
Dr John Theon, who supervised James Hansen - the activist-scientist who helped give the manmade global warming hypothesis centre prominent media attention - repents at length in a published letter. Theon wrote to the Minority Office at the Environment and Public Works Committee on January 15, 2009, and excerpts were published by skeptic Senator Inhofe’s office here last night.

“As Chief of several of NASA Headquarters’ programs (1982-94), an SES position, I was responsible for all weather and climate research in the entire agency, including the research work by James Hansen, Roy Spencer, Joanne Simpson, and several hundred other scientists at NASA field centers, in academia, and in the private sector who worked on climate research,” Theon wrote. "I appreciate the opportunity to add my name to those who disagree that global warming is man made.”
Theon takes aim at the models, and implicitly criticises Hansen for revising to the data set:
**“My own belief concerning anthropogenic climate change is that the models do not realistically simulate the climate system because there are many very important sub-grid scale processes that the models either replicate poorly or completely omit. **
Furthermore, some scientists have manipulated the observed data to justify their model results. In doing so, they neither explain what they have modified in the observations, nor explain how they did it.
"They have resisted making their work transparent so that it can be replicated independently by other scientists. This is clearly contrary to how science should be done. Thus there is no rational justification for using climate model forecasts to determine public policy.”
Hansen is in charge of the GISS data set, derived from readings published by NOAA. The GISS adjustment have received criticism (a potted summary here) for revising the historic record in an upward direction - and making undocumented and unexplained revisions.
theregister.co.uk/2009/01/28/nasa_climate_theon/
I suppose he too, is financed 😃
 
Hang on – I actually went digging to see what you’re talking about, and Landsea wasn’t even talking about the IPCC reports!
True, he was taking the IPCC’s refusal to clarify that Trenberth wasn’t - as was implied - speaking for them.
Since when have scientists not been allowed to tell people what they know?
That wasn’t Landsea’s concern. His objection was that the IPCC allowed a scientist to essentially speak in their name and present an opinion not supported by the science.
I also find it completely astonishing that you fail to recognise that the exact same question does spring to mind about the well-documented behaviour of the anti-AGW crowd.
It is no defense of misbehavior to complain the other side does it too.
Still waiting for examples.
Are you unfamiliar with the way the 1995 Executive Summary for the Second Assessment Report was put together or do you just assume that I am? The comment that there was* “discernible human influence on climate”* was inserted by the bureaucrats in the Summary and is nowhere supported by the science in the body of the work. Dr. Robert Stephenson, an oceanographer with the U.S. Office of Naval Research and NASA, and who from 1987-1995 was Secretary General of the International Association for the Physical Science of the Oceans pointed out: “Even when exposed, the IPCC leaders claimed it was their “right” to change scientific conclusions so that political leaders could better understand the report.”

Even the Third Assessment Report said this:

“The fact that the global mean temperature has increased since the late 19th century and that other trends have been observed does not necessarily mean that an anthropogenic effect on the climate has been identified. Climate has always varied on all time scales, so the observed change may be natural”.

So, if an anthropogenic effect on the climate had not been identified in 2001 (according to the IPCC), how could the Summary created in 1995 claim to have found one? As I said, the summaries contain conclusions not supported by the science.

Ender
 
Only if you firstly mischaracterise the (name removed by moderator)ut as “garbage”. My cliche, sorting the wheat from the chaff, was far more accurate. Surely you don’t doubt that the raw temperature record actually has information in it, do you?
The question is not whether the raw data contains information but whether the information it contains can be extracted. Temperature stations world wide are added, moved and removed, the conditions around the stations change due especially to urban sprawl, the data collected is discontinuous. “Harry” was commenting on the chaotic nature of the data and the difficulties involved in adjusting the raw values to uncover the information they contained. Regardless of whether the raw data contains information, if it cannot be correctly interpreted then what is fed into the models is … garbage. GIGO
So they used simple algorithms to identify suspicious data, and then went and checked all the detected suspicious data by hand and verified it didn’t have much impact on the final result and made their data available (back in 1999!).
That’s the kind of work you choose to characterise as “garbage in, garbage out”.
I’m sure those simple algorithms were useful. I am more concerned about (e.g.) the differences shown in the graph I provided about the urban heat island effect. Given that Hansen seems (based on his paper with Wang) to feel it is of small importance while the California data shows it to be fairly significant, there is a problem. Throwing out a few obvious bad sites is small potatoes compared to significantly underestimating the UHI effect on thousands of others.

Ender
 


(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I know these are monthly representations and were taken a year apart, but it is interesting to note that the temperature chart (top) shows the highest temperature increases in Canada, South America and Australia in precisely those areas where there was little to no actual data. Estimates for temperature increases in the Arctic are especially impressive.

Ender
 
http://chiefio.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/ghcn_giss_1200km_anom11_2009_2009_1951_1980.gif

http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/06/01/ghcn_giss_250km_anom03_2008_2008_1951_1980.jpg

I know these are monthly representations and were taken a year apart, but it is interesting to note that the temperature chart (top) shows the highest temperature increases in Canada, South America and Australia in precisely those areas where there was little to no actual data. Estimates for temperature increases in the Arctic are especially impressive.

Ender
Also notice Mexico as much cooler on both graphs - In March the average Temperature in Mexico is 20C - 68F to 31C - 87F degrees
April - March ] Is closer to 31C
enjoymexico.net/useful-information-climate-mexico.php

And USA for March 2008
  • For the contiguous United States, the average temperature for March was 42°F (6°C), which was 0.4°F (0.2°C) below the 20th century mean and ranked as the 52nd coolest March on record, based on preliminary data.
  • Only three states in the contiguous U.S. were warmer than average for March (Arizona, New Mexico and Rhode Island), while near-average temperatures occurred in 39 states and below average temperatures in seven states.
ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/?report=national&year=2008&month=3

The average temperature of 46.5°F In November 2009 For USA Same link as above ]

Both graphs are showing clear inaccuracies. But These are what’s used to sell AGW.
 
Just a rough guesstimate…doesn’t it mean the USA in those graphs would have to be 35 - 45F + degrees warmer than Mexico? or about 89F - 95F + degrees in winter ]
 
Just a rough guesstimate…doesn’t it mean the USA in those graphs would have to be 35 - 45F + degrees warmer than Mexico? or about 89F - 95F + degrees in winter ]
I’m not sure I follow this. The charts represent the changes to areas compared to the same areas from '51-'80 so the US could show 4 deg higher on the chart and still be absolutely cooler then Mexico even if it was relatively warmer - not relative to Mexico but relative to its earlier base US average.

Ender
 
*Book Launch: Climate: The Counter-Consensus with the Hon Rodney Hide
7th October, 2010
05:15pm - 6:15pm
Location: Hinton & Associates, Level 18, 114 William Street, Melbourne… *
*Climate: the Counter Consensus (by Professor Bob Carter) examines, with thoroughness and impartial expertise, the so-called facts of global warming that are churned out and unquestioningly accepted, while the scientific and media establishments stifle or deride any legitimate expression of an opposing view. *
*Professor Carter is an Emeritus Fellow of the IPA. He featured in the ‘Climategate’ emails as one of those brave enough to question the prevailing wisdom on climate change. Climate: The Counter-Consensus challenges the myths of ‘climate science’ that have been accepted by the media and the public. *
*Professor Carter’s book will be launched by the Hon Rodney Hide. Rodney is a minister in the New Zealand government, and leader of the ACT New Zealand Party. ACT New Zealand is an explicitly free market and small government party and has five MPs in the New Zealand parliament. New Zealand has implemented an emissions trading scheme and the position of ACT New Zealand is as follows: *
Rise up against the emissions trading scheme

More here

More of Professor Carter’s work right here.

You can argue black and blue over maps and charts until the cows come home. You may even feel that you are an expert on ‘climate change’, or ‘global warming’ or whatever other name the subject goes by. The point is that around the world scientists are not unaminous in their belief in man made global warming. The problem is that left wing social engineers have hijacked the debate and are using scare tactics to implement massive social change programs under the guise of ‘emissions trading’, or a ‘carbon tax’. The shenanigans at Copenhagen last year showed us that fact! These social engineers have now won positions in politics over the last few years and are set on implementing some very loony policies. Meanwhile, the amount of scepticism that has grown amongst the general population has increased dramatically. Unfortunately they may wake up too late to the fact that they were panicked into electing into positions of power some very insidious persons.​
 
I’m not sure I follow this. The charts represent the changes to areas compared to the same areas from '51-'80 so the US could show 4 deg higher on the chart and still be absolutely cooler then Mexico even if it was relatively warmer - not relative to Mexico but relative to its earlier base US average.

Ender
Hiyas:)
But 4 C = 39.2F . Isn’t that the average above - '51 -'80 March - November ] temperatures - it would have to be?
 
Two interesting news releases
** Royal Society Bows To Climate Change Sceptics **
Code:
 	 			 			Wednesday, 29 September 2010 22:09		 		 			 			Ben Webster, The Times		 		 		
  	 								 			[thegwpf.org/templates/copenhagen/images/emailButton.png](http://www.thegwpf.org/component/mailto/?tmpl=component&link=aHR0cDovL3d3dy50aGVnd3BmLm9yZy9pcGNjLW5ld3MvMTYxNy1yb3lhbC1zb2NpZXR5LWJvd3MtdG8tY2xpbWF0ZS1jaGFuZ2Utc2NlcHRpY3MuaHRtbA%3D%3D)			 					 						 			[thegwpf.org/templates/copenhagen/images/printButton.png](http://www.thegwpf.org/ipcc-news/1617-royal-society-bows-to-climate-change-sceptics.html?tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=)			 				 						 			[thegwpf.org/templates/copenhagen/images/pdf_button.png](http://www.thegwpf.org/ipcc-news/1617-royal-society-bows-to-climate-change-sceptics.pdf)			 						
  

**Britain’s leading scientific institution has been forced to  rewrite its guide to climate change and admit that there is greater  uncertainty about future temperature increases than it had previously  suggested.**
The Royal Society is publishing a new document today after a rebellion by more than 40 of its fellows who questioned mankind’s contribution to rising temperatures.
Climate change: a summary of the science states that “some uncertainties are unlikely ever to be significantly reduced”. Unlike Climate change controversies, a simple guide — the document it replaces — it avoids making predictions about the impact of climate change and refrains from advising governments about how they should respond.
The new guide says: “The size of future temperature increases and other aspects of climate change, especially at the regional scale, are still subject to uncertainty.”
The Royal Society even appears to criticise scientists who have made predictions about heatwaves and rising sea levels. It now says: “There is little confidence in specific projections of future regional climate change, except at continental scales.”
It adds: “It is not possible to determine exactly how much the Earth will warm or exactly how the climate will change in the future.
“There remains the possibility that hitherto unknown aspects of the climate and climate change could emerge and lead to significant modifications in our understanding.”
The working group that produced the new guide took advice from two Royal Society fellows who have links to the climate-sceptic think-tank founded by Lord Lawson of Blaby.
Professor Anthony Kelly and Sir Alan Rudge are members of the academic advisory council of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. They were among 43 fellows who signed a petition sent to Lord Rees, the society’s president, asking for its statement on climate change to be rewritten to take more account of questions raised by sceptics.
thegwpf.org/ipcc-news/1617-royal-society-bows-to-climate-change-sceptics.html
 
The Second
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  			By [James Delingpole](http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/jamesdelingpole/) 						 [Politics](http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/category/politics/) 					Last updated:  September 26th, 2010
  			[2523 Comments](http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100055500/global-cooling-and-the-new-world-order/#disqus_thread)
Bilderberg. Whether you believe it’s part of a sinister conspiracy which will lead inexorably to one world government or whether you think it’s just an innocent high-level talking shop, there’s one thing that can’t be denied: it knows which way the wind is blowing. (Hat tips: Will/NoIdea/Ozboy)
They included: the chairman of Fiat, the Irish Attorney General Paul Gallagher, the US special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke, Henry Kissinger, Bill Gates, Dick Perle, the Queen of the Netherlands, the editor of the Economist…. Definitely not Z-list, in other words
.
Which is what makes one particular item on the group’s discussion agenda so tremendously significant. See if you can spot the one I mean:
The 58th Bilderberg Meeting will be held in Sitges, Spain 3 – 6 June 2010. The Conference will deal mainly with Financial Reform, Security, Cyber Technology, Energy, Pakistan, Afghanistan, World Food Problem, Global Cooling, Social Networking, Medical Science, EU-US relations.
Yep, that’s right. Global Cooling.
Which means one of two things.
Either it was a printing error.
Or the global elite is perfectly well aware that global cooling represents a far more serious and imminent threat to the world than global warming, but is so far unwilling to admit it except behind closed doors.
Let me explain briefly why this is a bombshell waiting to explode.
Almost every government in the Western world from the USA to Britain to all the other EU states to Australia and New Zealand is currently committed to a policy of “decarbonisation.” This in turn is justified to (increasingly sceptical) electorates on the grounds that man-made CO2 is a prime driver of dangerous global warming and must therefore be reduced drastically, at no matter what social, economic and environmental cost. In the Eighties and Nineties, the global elite had a nice run of hot weather to support their (scientifically dubious) claims. But now they don’t. Winters are getting colder. Fuel bills are rising (in the name of combating climate change, natch). The wheels are starting to come off the AGW bandwagon. Ordinary people, resisting two decades of concerted brainwashing, are starting to notice.
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100055500/global-cooling-and-the-new-world-order/
 
the science supports nothing of the sort, its has been proven to be a hoax and that many scientists have falsified data or over exaggerated points. google climategate.

i wonder when the global cooling/global warming/climate change monster will go away and leave us in peace:confused::confused:
👍👍👍

You are absolutely correct and to add to your excellent reply, the climate change group is a reliogen. I remember reading Jude Waninski’s thoughts on a typical society. He noted all nations have and have had a reliogen, and he noted that America’s reliogen is now Ecology. Hitler’s team was a reliogen of Nature. Never since Socialism has there been a bigger hoax put on a people than Eviromentalism.:👍
 
Hiyas:)
But 4 C = 39.2F . Isn’t that the average above - '51 -'80 March - November ] temperatures - it would have to be?
No, that’s an “oops”. 1 degree of temperature in Centigrade equals about 1.8 degrees of temperature in Fahrenheit. If your starting temperature is 4 C then it would also be 39.2 F, but if the temperature rose 4 degrees C during the day, the Fahrenheit temperature would be 46.4. What the chart shows are changes in temp relative to the base 30 year average. Those are not temperature readings; they are changes to temp.

Ender
 
No, that’s an “oops”. 1 degree of temperature in Centigrade equals about 1.8 degrees of temperature in Fahrenheit. If your starting temperature is 4 C then it would also be 39.2 F, but if the temperature rose 4 degrees C during the day, the Fahrenheit temperature would be 46.4. What the chart shows are changes in temp relative to the base 30 year average. Those are not temperature readings; they are changes to temp.

Ender
Ahhhhh…Thank You!
 
Actually, the “*problem” *as I see it - is that you can’t convince an inexpert kid on the validity or honesty behind the AGW’ers hypothesis.
Sometimes the reason you can’t convince “an inexpert kid” is purely and simply because they are “inexpert”. (Often the fact that they are a kid doesn’t help, either – kids of a certain age have a way of thinking they know more than anyone else.)

It is clear that you don’t understand most of the information you are presenting and therefore are relying entirely on “Who do I trust more?”. Unfortunately you seem to be very bad at that, too. You take anything written by those on one side of the debate and somehow find a way to read malicious intent into it, while at the same time glossing over glaring errors, inconsistencies, and clear indications of bias in the sources that you do trust.

Just look at the language from the James Delingpole article you referenced:

“NASA’s latest stamping-its-little-feet claims”, “why we should trust their temperature records slightly less far than we can spit”, “yet further evidence of Dr Hansen’s radical, virulently anti-democratic instincts”, “eco-fascist book”, “Like so many deep greens, Farnish looks forward to the End Times with pornographic relish”, “many of the activist-scientists pushing it passionately want the earth to be getting hotter and it for it to be largely man’s fault. These watermelons certainly don’t want the opposite to be true, because then they wouldn’t have the excuse they so desperately need to destroy the capitalist system and take us all back to the agrarian age.”

None of that set off warning bells?

Once again – get access to YouTube, and watch this: slrtx.com/blog/baloney-detection-kit/

The real world is a messy and complicated place, and rarely do you get nice, clean explanations of things. You look at the evidence, you weigh it up, and you reach a conclusion. Right now, the overwhelming preponderance of evidence is that global warming is real, we’re playing a large part in it, and if we don’t do something about it soon, the results will be unpleasant. Nothing in the emails changes that. Nothing in the IPCC reports changes that. The evidence is there – you just need to look.
To my mind, nothing underhanded or as you excuse as being rude ] would need to be done, by these Scientists - If there was no fear in their “Science”.
They do not fear their “science”. Before McIntyre made a name for himself for abusing scientists, he asked Jones for his data and Jones gave it to him! McIntyre was sitting on it for years and didn’t bother looking at it. It was only later that Jones started to actively resist efforts by the “auditors” – not because of fear of being “audited”, but because he saw it as the thin end of the wedge that would eventually lead them to be doing nothing but servicing FOIA requests – a denial of service attack using the law as a weapon, not to illuminate but just to slow down the science so vested interests could keep raking in the dollars.

To look at the scientists’ reactions to attacks on their credibility and honesty and ignore the attacks themselves is unfair. You can’t provoke a reaction in a human being and then use that reaction as evidence of anything other than their reaction to your provocation. This is why courts take that information into account.

Now if I can’t convince you, it doesn’t matter. Even if everyone thinks like you do now, humanity will probably still react in time to avert catastrophe regardless, it will just be a lot more expensive and disruptive than it needed to be, and you’re the one who will have to live with that, not me. Your generation will blame my generation and the one before, but just remember – there were those of us who were willing to put time and effort in to helping your generation avoid those consequences. If the science is right, James Hanson and the like will be remembered as heroes because they sounded the early warning signs and worked tirelessly to alert the public to the consequences of their actions.

People like you, who obsessed about the so-called “underhanded techniques” that they used to make sure you actually saw what the science was actually saying will no doubt still somehow find a way to blame them for not managing to convince you.
 
It wasn’t because they weren’t trying every underhanded trick
A little bit of context goes a long way.

Wahl and Ammann produced two papers in 2005. Paper #1 was a comment submitted to GRL, on another paper. Paper #2 (WA2007) was the one cited in the IPCC report.

Paper #2 was accepted in December of 2005 prior to the IPCC AR4 cutoff date, subject to the addition of some tables of numbers and some cosmetic changes to the figures – changes that were insignificant enough that the editor told them that provided the requested changes were made it wouldn’t need another round of peer review. This modified version was accepted for publication in February 2006. “None of the primary results or arguments, not even in detail – including those mentioned in the IPCC AR4 noted in section (2) – changed between preliminary acceptance in December 2005 and the published paper.” (cce-review.org/evidence/Supp%20info%20from%20Briffa%20re%20Wahl_Ammann.pdf)

What didn’t make the IPCC deadline was paper #1, which was rejected, not “for its scientific content nor for technical issues, but rather for editorial purposes related to a sequence of comment-reply pairs.” (ibid.)

In other words, there was nothing wrong with the science in paper #1 – which wasn’t referenced in the IPCC report anyway, remember – but rather the editor thought it should not be published as a comment. So Wahl and Ammann submitted the same scientific content as paper #1 as a full-blown paper and it was accepted and published (as AW2007).

Since the content of paper #1 was unaltered, and since paper #2 cited paper #1 but did not depend on it, the editor allowed Wahl and Ammann to update the citation in paper #2 so that it pointed to the new reference for paper #1.

That’s it.

Now, if what matters to you is the science and what it actually says, then there is nothing wrong with the original date for paper #2 because the science didn’t change. If you believe that the IPCC’s role is to report all of the science available at the cutoff date, then there is nothing wrong with what they decided to do. If, however, you think that an entire paper should be eliminated from the report not because it is wrong, but rather because it was modified after the cutoff date to change a citation, then I guess they’re guilty as charged.

The amazing thing is that if Jones et al were using this kind of argument to prevent one of the “skeptics” papers from being published, you’d be accusing them of trying to keep dissenting opinion out of the report on a technicality.

The science was good. The science was accepted. The reviewers had ample time to comment on the science, and they did. To throw the paper out because it needed a citation updated would be an underhanded trick.

I like to think that people are a little more sophisticated than that. If a rule has unintended consequences that are obviously against the spirit of the exercise, people can update the rules to avoid those consequences – which, by the way, is exactly what they did.

Here are the comments of Professor John Mitchell, one of the two Review Editors for that chapter, on the issue:

Mitchell said:
“I was not aware of the debate about whether the Wahl and Ammann paper had or had not met the deadline for the 2nd order draft for chapter 6, until after the event. The concentration on specific deadlines however misses the larger point. It must be recognised that if only published sources were used, the report would be two years old by the time of publication. In a fast-moving area such as climate change research, assessments could be significantly behind the times if important, but as yet unpublished, new results could not be used. The assessments for policymakers could also therefore be behind the times”.

“In earlier assessments, there had been a relatively liberal regime in using unpublished material provided that there was a sound basis for regarding it as rigorous or reliable, although priority was always given to finding published sources. In AR4 however, the regime was tightened significantly, so that such material was only to be used under exceptional circumstances, but the use of unpublished material was not prohibited. “Hockey-stick” issues were regarded at the time as sufficiently important to justify using new data. The dilemma between using only published material and being out of date, or using more recent unpublished material was increased in AR4 as the “latest publication date” was about 12 months earlier than in the process than in the previous assessment”.

So what are we talking about here?

The paper that McIntyre wrote, that Jones et al tried to keep out of the IPCC report because it was scientifically flawed, was included in the IPCC report, and you criticise their attempts to keep it out.

The paper that Wahl and Annann wrote that not only showed that McIntyre’s paper was scientifically flawed but explained his mistake, that McIntyre tried to keep out of the IPCC report – not because it was scientifically flawed, but because he didn’t like the fact it was altered after the deadline, no matter how trivial the alteration was – was included as well, and yet you don’t criticise McIntyre’s efforts.

McIntyre raised this issue during the review process and the IPCC acknowledged his complaint about deadlines but decided that giving you the most up-to-date and accurate assessment possible was more important. Ruling out a paper that showed he was wrong not because he found a flaw in it but purely because of trivial changes to it that in no way affected the science would have been “underhanded”.
 
I said: “Well, as long as you think in terms of “outrageous ties” in the first place – let alone with highly respected scientists like Hanson – I hold little hope for change.”

You then responded by copying-and-pasting an opinion piece on Hanson by James Delingpole.

So let me add:

“Well, as long as you form opinions about highly respected scientists by copying the opinions of people who are responsible for easily disproved rubbish like blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100022474/climategate-goes-american-noaa-giss-and-the-mystery-of-the-vanishing-weather-stations/ then I hold little hope for change.”
 
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