Catholicism and Climate Change

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And now the scientific argument about whether or not the theory of AGW is valid is answered with “People who disagree with it are evil.” That pretty much sums up the amount of science involved.

Ender
You have to understand that “science” is at the far end of the spectrum, at the edge of what you call “evil.” Scientists strive to avoid the false positive of making untrue claims, so they require tremendous amount of evidence and 95% confidence before making claims. That 95% confidence was reached in 1995 on climate change, and studies have been greatly piling up since in support. The science is quite robust on this issue.

OTOH, the Church, JPII, and those with good moral bearings and love of neighbor strive to avoid the false negative of failing to address a true problem…of failing to correct (confess and make reparations for) a true sin. They don’t take wild chances with human lives and souls. That’s why they have been solidly in the forefront of calling for all people to mitigate climate change since at least “Peace with All Creation” in 1990.

BXVI in his many calls to action on this, has explained how we first need to attend to human ecology. The way I see it is if people are not given love, if they are not cherished as we all should be, they are not able to give love to others, and do the right things re climate change and other problems harming people.

So to all those who are broken hearted, unloved, mistreated, dejected, and/or troubled in spirit, my deepest prayers are with you. I pray you find healing and love, and the love of our most gracious, tender, and loving God.
 
“What does the Church say about climate change?”

Why would the Church have any thing to say about climate change?

As of now, there are 65 pages of blah, blah, blah", which right now equals to zero.
And when the last arm chair philosopher has their blah, blah say it will still equal to zero.

Hey stop this waste of time, go to mass, adoration, or help out at a homeless shelter.
 
Borrowed from someone else:
… But my memory tells me that my Catholic upbringing did in fact mention that animals did NOT have souls and that we could therefore do what we liked to them and with them. There was never any mention of looking after them, unless it was for our own self-interest. Thus, I have to ask again, are you sure that the Vatican agrees with you that “All living things must have souls”? If they do, then the church has certainly changed its position on the subject over the last 60 years, but I doubt that they could do so on such an important concept as The Soul. It would be like doing away or upgrading Genesis or the Old Testament itself.
The quote that I took from Genesis mentions Man being made in the image of God. There is no mention of doing the same with other animals. It only mentions animals to say that Man may have control over them. That does not sound to me as though Genesis means you to understand that animals also have a soul.
So, whether from the Church or somewhere else in the Bible, you can show me where it is stated, that “animals have souls”, I have to infer, for the time being, that the problem of us Human beings finding ourselves 95% subordinate to an animal does not square up with the concept that we are special and made in the image of God.
There is no need for it to be interpreted by others.

The Realistic Philosophy of St. Thomas Aquinas is based on concepts first described by Aristotle (died c. 350 BC) on his Realism Philsophy, but all his books, except 3 or 4, were lost from the time of his death until the 9th Century when they surfaced in a Nestorian Monastery (yes, the heretic! It is of value to note that God uses imperfect beings for good purposes, such as Nestorian Monks that kept and copied Aristotelian books that were the basis of Scholasticism that kept and keeps Catholicism free of philosophical errors) in the 8th Century, in time to lead to the formation of Scholasticism, its prime members in the Middle Ages were St. Albert the Great and his student, St. Thomas Aquinas, who had access to the philosophical writings of Muslim and Jewish philosophers in Muslim Sicily. His five proofs of the Existence of God were based on the writings of Jewish Moses Maimonides.
The Logic of Aristotle is the basis of all sciences, that are true sciences that follow the Rules of Logic discovered and defined by pagan Aristotle.
It may be of interest that the teacher of Aristotle, Plato, believed in an Idealistic Nature, which was followed by St. Augustine and some Protestant Churches still follow, they broke away from Christianity before St. Thomas Aquinas lived, and remain stuck in the Idealism of Plato, to them all beings are eternal.
The implication that beings go to their final reward includes the essential need of a Free Will that leads them to Good or Evil, but there is no evidence or basis to believe that animals have a Free Will…
The basic Aristotelian concept of the essence of all beings is Form and Matter.
In humans, we call them Soul and Body. In this sense, we can all say that ALL beings have a Form, which in humans is called “Soul” and ALL beings have Matter, which in humans is called “Body”. There is no proof that Souls are eternal except that all that is “spiritual” does not decay, like human souls, Angels and God. Since we know of no Eternal aspects in animals, we have no basis to believe they are eternal.
Aristotle said all beings, be they animals, plants and minerals have a Form which ends when their Matter is transformed into another nature, like a tree that dies and becomes wood. After we die, we will see real Truth, Beauty, etc., and our need for animals may not exist. It all depends on the description of Heaven, a part of Thomism, among others, that I am unfamiliar.
 
“What does the Church say about climate change?”

Why would the Church have any thing to say about climate change?

As of now, there are 65 pages of blah, blah, blah", which right now equals to zero.
And when the last arm chair philosopher has their blah, blah say it will still equal to zero.

Hey stop this waste of time, go to mass, adoration, or help out at a homeless shelter.
…and turn off lights not in use, turn off motors in drive-thrus & order the veggie burger, buy energy efficient appliances, insulate, offset some driving with walking/bicycling, buy a home closer to work/schools/church, go on alt energy when available & feasible, and reduce, reuse, recycle & buy recycled. That could reduce one’s GHGs by 50% cost-effectively (even more, if one is really committed to doing good), and help to reduce the killing of people through global warming.

The Bible may not say anything about global warming, but it does say something about “Thou shalt not kill,” and “Do unto others…”
 
…and turn off lights not in use, turn off motors in drive-thrus & order the veggie burger, buy energy efficient appliances, insulate, offset some driving with walking/bicycling, buy a home closer to work/schools/church, go on alt energy when available & feasible, and reduce, reuse, recycle & buy recycled. That could reduce one’s GHGs by 50% cost-effectively (even more, if one is really committed to doing good), and help to reduce the killing of people through global warming.

The Bible may not say anything about global warming, but it does say something about “Thou shalt not kill,” and “Do unto others…”
Turn the heat down to 50F - get rid of ALL Air conditioners …on ALL government properties - including universities.

Shut down university servers during high traffic times - say 9A.M - 8 P.M and then regulate usage.

Get rid of all government vehicles used by politicians

THAT could reduce ALL the countries CO2 by 80% 😃

PS can you prove veggie-burgers reduce CO2 over burgers? No one else can.🙂 One of the highest emitters of CO2 is the growing of rice - not counting harvesting - storage - processing - marketing - delivery.
 
Of course, because as I sit here and look at my copy of John Houghton’s book “Global Warming: A Complete Briefing” I’m sure that all he does is repeat that exact sentence over and over again, for 430 pages. But wait, now that I open it, i see that there are all kinds of graphs, and numbers, and all this stuff about chemistry and oceanography and such. I could read the book, and then develop an informed opinion on the quality of the science… or I could put it down and just assume that it’s all nonsense! How much time I would save! Just imagine what other problems I can solve just by assuming them away! What a discovery!
Did you not realize that my comment was directed at a specific statement by a different person or do you really believe that every should answer should address every conceivable issue? If you wish to argue the science involved then take your shot but the other discussion was about the morality involved, which is actually a different argument.

Ender
 
Turn the heat down to 50F - get rid of ALL Air conditioners …on ALL government properties - including universities.

Shut down university servers during high traffic times - say 9A.M - 8 P.M and then regulate usage.

Get rid of all government vehicles used by politicians

THAT could reduce ALL the countries CO2 by 80% 😃

PS can you prove veggie-burgers reduce CO2 over burgers? No one else can.🙂 One of the highest emitters of CO2 is the growing of rice - not counting harvesting - storage - processing - marketing - delivery.
Thanks for the heads-up. You’re right…I had just read about rice being high CO2 emissions. Sweden & the UK are bringing in GHG emissions on food products, which should help consumers of conscience, at least in those countries.

So, reduce rice consumption, or go for other carbs.

If we all do whatever we can, whatever is feasible, I’m sure we can reduce our GHGs substantially, while we await further tech advances to lower them more.

Yes, politicians can take public transportation, cycle, and walk, and get to know their people.

If Japan can reduce the AC during summers and heat during winters for their government and business offices, why can’t we, a supposedly mainly Christian nation?

Where are the Christians, when you really need them?

Okay, at some abortion rally. That’s good. We should try and stop other people from killing people, but we, including me, also need to reduce our own killing of people.
 
Where are the Christians, when you really need them?
I agree. Too few of them are scientists. Perhaps the issue wouldn’t have gotten to this stage if the scientists involved in the research were more honest about it.

Ender
 
Thanks for the heads-up. You’re right…I had just read about rice being high CO2 emissions. Sweden & the UK are bringing in GHG emissions on food products, which should help consumers of conscience, at least in those countries.

So, reduce rice consumption, or go for other carbs.

If we all do whatever we can, whatever is feasible, I’m sure we can reduce our GHGs substantially, while we await further tech advances to lower them more.

Yes, politicians can take public transportation, cycle, and walk, and get to know their people.

If Japan can reduce the AC during summers and heat during winters for their government and business offices, why can’t we, a supposedly mainly Christian nation?

Where are the Christians, when you really need them?

Okay, at some abortion rally. That’s good. We should try and stop other people from killing people, but we, including me, also need to reduce our own killing of people.
The thing is … at YOUR house, YOU have to pay for the heat and the air conditioning and the lights. So YOU voluntarily monitor the heat and the a/c and the lights … because it’s money out of YOUR pocket, when the electric, natural gas and oil bill arrives.

If you work for a private company or some corporation, they have departments devoted to minimizing the cost of heat, air conditioning, and electricity. They replaced incandescent bulbs DECADES ago with fluorescents. And they buy new computers all the time to control the utility costs and work overtime to find new ways to conserve energy.

They have done that for decades.

But does the government do that? The only way of being certain is to require the government EMPLOYEES themselves to pay for their own office utility bills. Let them have an energy allowance and then each day, they have to feed quarters into their office electric meter. Then you would see how quickly the “government” controls its own utility costs.
 
The thing is … at YOUR house, YOU have to pay for the heat and the air conditioning and the lights. So YOU voluntarily monitor the heat and the a/c and the lights … because it’s money out of YOUR pocket, when the electric, natural gas and oil bill arrives.

If you work for a private company or some corporation, they have departments devoted to minimizing the cost of heat, air conditioning, and electricity. They replaced incandescent bulbs DECADES ago with fluorescents. And they buy new computers all the time to control the utility costs and work overtime to find new ways to conserve energy.

They have done that for decades.

But does the government do that? The only way of being certain is to require the government EMPLOYEES themselves to pay for their own office utility bills. Let them have an energy allowance and then each day, they have to feed quarters into their office electric meter. Then you would see how quickly the “government” controls its own utility costs.
Back in the mid-90s Al Gore reduced gov GHGs and inefficiency by over $1 billion savings to taxpayers each year, and yet the anti-environmentalists hate him with a purple passion.

Jimmy Carter put solar panel up on the White House roof, which Reagan took down.

American GHGs have increased by about 20% since 1990, as well as our meat-eating increasing (I’m working on the stats now) – proof positive we are dedicated to increasing our GHG emissions, not lowering them.

We Americans just love to pollute and kill, and we’re willing to waste our money to do so. And that, my friend, is the bottom line. Kill, kill, kill is our motto – Native Americans, fetuses, and now the whole world.
 
I agree. Too few of them are scientists. Perhaps the issue wouldn’t have gotten to this stage if the scientists involved in the research were more honest about it.

Ender
How many non-scientists does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent bulb? One.

How many scientists does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent bulb? Three – one to collect the data, one to analyze it, and one to present the findings at a conference.

How many rocket scientists does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent bulb? Six – two to collect the data, two to analyze it, one to write the report, and one to present the findings.

How many climate change denialists does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent bulb? They say it can’t be done, but they are writing a 1500 page dissertation on why it can’t be done.
 
How many non-scientists does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent bulb? One.

How many scientists does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent bulb? Three – one to collect the data, one to analyze it, and one to present the findings at a conference.

How many rocket scientists does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent bulb? Six – two to collect the data, two to analyze it, one to write the report, and one to present the findings.

How many climate change denialists does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent bulb? They say it can’t be done, but they are writing a 1500 page dissertation on why it can’t be done.
How many scientists does it take to clean up a broken Curly Fried Lightbulb?

Fifty and they all need moon suits and duct tape and a special sealed container. And they have to cut up the carpet and take the broken CFL and any contaminated fabric to a special certified disposal facility.

We went out of our way to remove mercury thermometers from our houses and now we are deliberately bringing in far worse contamination sources by way of these compact fluorescent bulbs.
 
How many scientists does it take to clean up a broken Curly Fried Lightbulb?

Fifty and they all need moon suits and duct tape and a special sealed container. And they have to cut up the carpet and take the broken CFL and any contaminated fabric to a special certified disposal facility.

We went out of our way to remove mercury thermometers from our houses and now we are deliberately bringing in far worse contamination sources by way of these compact fluorescent bulbs.
It ought to be a felony punishable by imprisonment to use a CFL.

CFL’s are hazmats. Hazardous materials.

Read the directions for disposal.

mass.gov/dep/toxics/stypes/brkncfls.htm

Hazmats.

Toxic substances.

The environmentalists condemn carbon dioxide which is a normal substance that all animals exhale and plants excrete at night, but which plants must have during daytime … and then the environmentalists insist we import toxic, hazardous materials into our homes in the form of those curly fluorescent light bulbs. We shut down our domestic light bulb industry and import toxic materials from China.

We had perfectly good incandescent light bulbs, but now are forced by law to import hazmats into our homes.

What good is that???
 
More information (if more was needed). This is a very interesting comment:

Nils-Axel Morner, head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department at Stockholm University in Sweden, argues that any concerns regarding rising sea levels are unfounded. "So all this talk that sea level rising, this comes from the computer modeling, not from observations. … The new level, which has been stable, has not changed in the last 35 years

ocregister.com/opinion/warming-281849-global-sea.html

I have to ask the question: if I believe this statement from the head of that department at Stockholm University, does that make me immoral for believing that island nations won’t be swallowed up by the sea? It is somehow un-Catholic to believe that his understanding of the facts is correct? This is why the whole concern about the “morality” of this issue is nonsense. It is solely a question of scientific truth.

Ender
 
It ought to be a felony punishable by imprisonment to use a CFL.

CFL’s are hazmats. Hazardous materials.

Read the directions for disposal.

mass.gov/dep/toxics/stypes/brkncfls.htm

Hazmats.

Toxic substances.

The environmentalists condemn carbon dioxide which is a normal substance that all animals exhale and plants excrete at night, but which plants must have during daytime … and then the environmentalists insist we import toxic, hazardous materials into our homes in the form of those curly fluorescent light bulbs. We shut down our domestic light bulb industry and import toxic materials from China.

We had perfectly good incandescent light bulbs, but now are forced by law to import hazmats into our homes.

What good is that???
There is more mercury & hazardous materials pumped into the air from burning the extra coal to fuel the incandescent bulb (over the CF bulb). And that doesn’t count for the human toll due to AGW and ocean acidification killing off seafood, and acid rain killing lakes, forests, soil, and lungs.

(And don’t get me started on nuclear power and uranium mining causing death of Navajos and other written-off peoples around the world.)

Selfish people will go on protecting themselves at the expense of killing others. But that may boomarang back on them and their progeny.

There is an Indian saying (also Mexican): “If you spit up in the air, it will land in your face.”
 
There is more mercury & hazardous materials pumped into the air from burning the extra coal to fuel the incandescent bulb (over the CF bulb).
Just exactly, how is that figured?

Incandescent bulbs emit heat. They help to heat a space home / room ] - requiring less work from your heat source.

CF bulbs heat less space - requiring more strain on your heat source to make up the difference. haven’t you noticed your thermostat kicking in more after changing? ]

The only way one could say that there is any reduction in hazards emitted - is if you can show incandescent bulbs emit more exhaust than your personal heat source.

NOTE: In northern Minnesota it’s common practice to leave a couple of incandescent lights on in your basement - running near your water pipes, to help stop water pipes from freezing. It does work and its safe - compared to some heat sources used to keep water pipes from freezing … CF’s - florescent light sources don’t work ].
And that doesn’t count for the human toll due to AGW
I invite you to offer proof of this statement - how can you attribute anything to something unproven?
and ocean acidification killing off seafood,
And you have evidence of this?

There is more ph acidification in a raindrop, puddle, standing body of fresh water lakes ], etc. Maybe, you could take a field trip to a lake and observe it “turning”. It usually happens ‘turns’ ] twice a year.
(And don’t get me started on nuclear power and uranium mining causing death of Navajos
The mining for “Rare Earth” for wind turbines is just as dangerous. Yet, you support wind turbines?
 
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