Catholicism and Climate Change

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Raskolnikov said:
Again, stop with this. You’re not even twisting my words; you’re just making them up altogether. It is possible that I will be mauled by a mountain lion tomorrow, but very unlikely, so I’m not counting on it. It is very likely (but not certain) that the mailman will deliver the mail tomorrow, and so I expect it to come. My position on global warming, again, is not merely that it is possibly real, but that it is very likely real. See the above paragraph again to be reminded why I refrain from proclaiming absolute certainty.
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Like you, and the very well informed Jason and Lynn… Who have explained this at length on this thread… Climate change is happening as a result of our choices, AND we can do something about it, AND should do something about it if we wish to follow what the Holy Father and other Church leaders have said is our responsibility because of the impact on both people and all of God’s creation.
Welcome to CAF
 
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/peace/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20091208_xliii-world-day-peace_en.html#top

From the Holy Father’s WORLD DAY OF PEACE jJan 1, 2011

Without entering into the merit of specific technical solutions, the Church is nonetheless concerned, as an “expert in humanity”, to call attention to the relationship between the Creator, human beings and the created order. In 1990 John Paul II had spoken of an “ecological crisis” and, in highlighting its primarily ethical character, pointed to the “urgent moral need for a new solidarity”.[7] His appeal is all the more pressing today, in the face of signs of a growing crisis which it would be irresponsible not to take seriously. Can we remain indifferent before the problems associated with such realities as climate change, desertification, the deterioration and loss of productivity in vast agricultural areas, the pollution of rivers and aquifers, the loss of biodiversity, the increase of natural catastrophes and the deforestation of equatorial and tropical regions? Can we disregard the growing phenomenon of “environmental refugees”, people who are forced by the degradation of their natural habitat to forsake it – and often their possessions as well – in order to face the dangers and uncertainties of forced displacement? Can we remain impassive in the face of actual and potential conflicts involving access to natural resources? All these are issues with a profound impact on the exercise of human rights, such as the right to life, food, health and development.
 
4elise said:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/peace/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20091208_xliii-world-day-peace_en.html#top

From the Holy Father’s WORLD DAY OF PEACE jJan 1, 2011

Without entering into the merit of specific technical solutions, the Church is nonetheless concerned, as an “expert in humanity”, to call attention to the relationship between the Creator, human beings and the created order. In 1990 John Paul II had spoken of an “ecological crisis” and, in highlighting its primarily ethical character, pointed to the “urgent moral need for a new solidarity”.[7] His appeal is all the more pressing today, in the face of signs of a growing crisis which it would be irresponsible not to take seriously. Can we remain indifferent before the problems associated with such realities as climate change, desertification, the deterioration and loss of productivity in vast agricultural areas, the pollution of rivers and aquifers, the loss of biodiversity, the increase of natural catastrophes and the deforestation of equatorial and tropical regions? Can we disregard the growing phenomenon of “environmental refugees”, people who are forced by the degradation of their natural habitat to forsake it – and often their possessions as well – in order to face the dangers and uncertainties of forced displacement? Can we remain impassive in the face of actual and potential conflicts involving access to natural resources? All these are issues with a profound impact on the exercise of human rights, such as the right to life, food, health and development.
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👍👍

Good Stewardship 🙂

And dailymail.co.uk/news/article-501316/The-Pope-condemns-climate-change-prophets-doom.html
 
kimmielittle said:
Just what have they explained, please? OR are you saying they agree with you 😃
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The numerous posts from Jason that took the detailed effort to clarify “theory” as used in science vs say a criminal investigation, would invite you to review that discussion… And since Raskoilnkov was also clarifying this point… So yes seems like a good point:thumbsup:
 
Second appeal to the moderators to please keep this thread open…

The Holy Father’s words from January 1st continue to stress how important this issue is to people of faith.

Thank you!
 
4elise said:
The numerous posts from Jason that took the detailed effort to clarify “theory” as used in science vs say a criminal investigation, would invite you to review that discussion… And since Raskoilnkov was also clarifying this point… So yes seems like a good point:thumbsup:
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Actually, that is what needs to be done …a criminal investigation. AND it sounds like it just may happen.
Kenneth Cuccinelli II, elected as the Attorney General of the Commonwealth of Virginia in November 2009, has demanded from the University of Virginia (my university) the e-mails and other information of Dr. Michael Mann, who was an assistant professor of environmental sciences there from 1995 to 2005.
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From the e-mails leaked from the University of East Anglia (UEA) in the so-called Climategate affair, we know that Professor Phil Jones was at the center of a conspiracy to manipulate temperature data. His American analogue was Michael Mann. Even though Jones recommended deletion of all e-mails, it is possible that many e-mails will still be found on the UVA server and furnish the “smoking gun” that can tell us just how the temperaature data had been manipulated.
The UEA e-mails tell us of attempts to “hide the decline” (of temperature) using “Mike [Mann]'s Nature trick.” It is important now to discover the truth, either from e-mail evidence or by direct testimony. Unfortunately, none of the investigations so far have delved into this matter, but instead have produced what amounts to a series of whitewashes.
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The University of Virginia is fighting the demand for the data using outside lawyers and claiming “academic freedom” among other such excuses. I cannot comment on the legal implications of the AG’s investigation. It should be noted, however, that UVA was quite willing to deliver up the e-mails of Professor Pat Michaels when Greenpeace asked for them in December 2009. It makes the UVA protestations sound rather hypocritical.
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4elise said:
A four year old article in a secular paper, as the response to the Holy Father’s words from the Vatican site from two days ago… Now correct me if Im wrong Kimmie, you wouldn’t tolerate this kind of sourcing if someone posted it in response to you would you:shrug:
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Well, I will correct you 🙂

Because it is what The Holy Father said in a secular paper or not - until proven otherwise - 4 years without recanting them - His words stand - just as viable today as when He first spoke them ].

The Holy Father has as have I ] talked about our responsibilities as Good Stewards.

He, as have I, talked about prudent usage of ALL our Gifts from God dealing with Natural Climate Changes
**the increase of natural catastrophes **
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and protecting our environment / and God’s Creation.

Natural Climate Change is a fact!! There is a huge difference. I have tried to teach you the difference. 🤷

He doesn’t say Man Made Global Warming - AGW hypothesis …He doesn’t say support them or their schemes.
 
4elise said:
Oh my…:rolleyes:
Again the email issue was addressed at length in this thread…
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Oh my…:rolleyes: Why not? It hasn’t been addressed…even Congress is looking into it. It’s only been addressed by JasonSB…and I’ve proven time and again nonobjective views…SOooo yes it’s been addressed to your satisfaction…I GUESS:D

I guess we can excuse anyone’s actions as long as they seem to agree 🙂
 
kimmielittle said:
Oh my…:rolleyes: Why not? It hasn’t been addressed…even Congress is looking into it. It’s only been addressed by JasonSB…and I’ve proven time and again nonobjective views…SOooo yes it’s been addressed to your satisfaction…I GUESS:D

I guess we can excuse anyone’s actions as long as they seem to agree 🙂
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Funny… I guess that is the source of frequent:thumbsup:
 
4elise said:
Second appeal to the moderators to please keep this thread open…

The Holy Father’s words from January 1st continue to stress how important this issue is to people of faith.

Thank you!
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Thank you!🙂
 
kimmielittle said:
Well, I will correct you 🙂

Because it is what The Holy Father said in a secular paper or not - until proven otherwise - 4 years without recanting them - His words stand - just as viable today as when He first spoke them ].

The Holy Father has as have I ] talked about our responsibilities as Good Stewards.

He, as have I, talked about prudent usage of ALL our Gifts from God dealing with Natural Climate Changes
Click to expand...
and protecting our environment / and God’s Creation.

Natural Climate Change is a fact!! There is a huge difference. I have tried to teach you the difference. 🤷

He doesn’t say Man Made Global Warming - AGW hypothesis …He doesn’t say support them or their schemes.

It is the title of this article that supports your view… Not the words of the Pope … The quotes in the article are expounded upon further in the World Day of Peace…

And as to your interpretation of his comments… Allow me to offer the “correction” that on the topic of climate change the Pope and the Vatican has repeatedly called upon nations to take action that will reduce the impact of climate change because the most vulnerable in the world will be the most impacted… IF man’s actions were NOT causing climate
change than this would be an unnecessary request. You wouldn’t tell someone to stop doing something they aren’t doing! It would be unecessary.

We agree that NO specific solution is being advocated for by the Pope… And as you know I am still uncertain what policies could have the best impact, perhaps that should be another discussion.
 
4elise said:
It is the title of this article that supports your view… Not the words of the Pope … The quotes in the article are expounded upon further in the World Day of Peace…

And as to your interpretation of his comments… Allow me to offer the “correction” that on the topic of climate change the Pope and the Vatican has repeatedly called upon nations to take action that will reduce the impact of climate change because the most vulnerable in the world will be the most impacted… IF man’s actions were NOT causing climate
change than this would be an unnecessary request. You wouldn’t tell someone to stop doing something they aren’t doing! It would be unecessary.
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Deforestation / pollution / environmental issues…etc… are things we need to charge. As well as providing for the poor - and Natural Climatic Disasters. We have been told this from Biblical times.

These, again…Are separate charges. They have been with us from the start of man and time. Totally Independent of MMGW / AGW. hypotheses.
We agree that NO specific solution is being advocated for by the Pope…
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I believe, it goes even further. The Holy Father has not tied his robes to AGW…for a very good reason… as stated above -Good Stewardship isn’t reliant upon an unproven hypothesis ]
And as you know I am still uncertain what policies could have the best impact, perhaps that should be another discussion.
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I see none, yet offered, that as a Catholic I could embrace 😦
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Over 31,000, of which over 9,000 are Ph.Ds

"We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth."
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In addition to all of that … in addition to the ONE THOUSAND PUBLISHED EMAILS, which you can buy from Amazon … TESTIFYING THAT THE EAST ANGLIA SCIENTISTS actively worked for ten years with other scientists … “alleged scientists” … to fabricate data AND THEN THREW AWAY THE ORIGINAL DATA so that no one could ever replicate the ORIGINAL DATA …

… in addition to all of that …

… it turns out that the original data that were used as (name removed by moderator)ut to the IPCC models [which were/ are already suspect] … that the original data were collected from measuring instruments that were not calibrated properly …

… AND someone … actually a large number of “someones” … studied most of the data gathering instruments and found that they read HIGH … surprise surprise ] … by as much as five degrees.

So … the IPCC models show a wide variety of forecasts with the “most likely” scenario being a temp increase for the planet over the next century … 100 years … of 1º … one degree … and as much as … 5º.

If they were using accurate data, the models would show a most likely scenario of global cooling of anywhere from zero degrees to -5º.

In other words, NO global warming … and probably actually global cooling.

Visit www.surfacestations.org for more details.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
In addition to all of that … in addition to the ONE THOUSAND PUBLISHED EMAILS, which you can buy from Amazon … TESTIFYING THAT THE EAST ANGLIA SCIENTISTS actively worked for ten years with other scientists … “alleged scientists” … to fabricate data AND THEN THREW AWAY THE ORIGINAL DATA so that no one could ever replicate the ORIGINAL DATA …

… in addition to all of that …

… it turns out that the original data that were used as (name removed by moderator)ut to the IPCC models [which were/ are already suspect] … that the original data were collected from measuring instruments that were not calibrated properly …

… AND someone … actually a large number of “someones” … studied most of the data gathering instruments and found that they read HIGH … surprise surprise ] … by as much as five degrees.

So … the IPCC models show a wide variety of forecasts with the “most likely” scenario being a temp increase for the planet over the next century … 100 years … of 1º … one degree … and as much as … 5º.

If they were using accurate data, the models would show a most likely scenario of global cooling of anywhere from zero degrees to -5º.

In other words, NO global warming … and probably actually global cooling.

Visit www.surfacestations.org for more details.
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And some seem to think a small increase in global temperatures over a hundred years or so will kill us all. Where I live, Christmas Eve was around 24C and a few days after Christmas it was 40C. Shouldn’t we all be dead?
 
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