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nysacerdote
Guest
In your opinion, can a person be loyal Roman Catholic while also holding true the tenets of communism?
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Depends on what “tenets” you mean, but at large, Pope’s have not viewed communism favorably:*“You are aware indeed, that the goal of this most iniquitous plot is to drive people to overthrow the entire order of human affairs and to draw them over to the wicked theories of this Socialism and Communism, by confusing them with perverted teachings.”
(Pius, IX, Encyclical Nostis et Nobiscum, December 8, 1849)
“They [socialists, communists, or nihilists] debase the natural union of man and woman, which is held sacred even among barbarous peoples; and its bond, by which the family is chiefly held together, they weaken, or even deliver up to lust.
(Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Quod Apostolici Muneris, December 28, 1878, n. 1)
“Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism. The reason is that Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production; it places too severe a restraint on human liberty, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority.” (John XXIII, Encyclical Mater et Magistra, May 15, 1961, n. 34)
We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything, but a State which, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, generously acknowledges and supports initiatives arising from the different social forces and combines spontaneity with closeness to those in need. The Church is one of those living forces: she is alive with the love enkindled by the Spirit of Christ. This love does not simply offer people material help, but refreshment and care for their souls, something which often is even more necessary than material support. In the end, the claim that just social structures would make works of charity superfluous masks a materialist conception of man: the mistaken notion that man can live “by bread alone” (Mt 4:4; cf. Dt 8:3)—a conviction that demeans man and ultimately disregards all that is specifically human. (Benedict XVI, Deus Caritatis Est, , 2005, 28b)
[The Church] condemns economic liberalism. Everyone thinks [knows] that the Church is against Communism, but it is as opposed to that system as it is to the savage economic liberalism which exists today. That is not Christian either and we cannot accept it. (Cardinal Bergoglio/Pope Francis, On Heaven and Earth, 2011)
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(Pius, IX, Encyclical Nostis et Nobiscum, December 8, 1849)
“They [socialists, communists, or nihilists] debase the natural union of man and woman, which is held sacred even among barbarous peoples; and its bond, by which the family is chiefly held together, they weaken, or even deliver up to lust.
(Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Quod Apostolici Muneris, December 28, 1878, n. 1)
“Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism. The reason is that Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production; it places too severe a restraint on human liberty, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority.” (John XXIII, Encyclical Mater et Magistra, May 15, 1961, n. 34)
We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything, but a State which, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, generously acknowledges and supports initiatives arising from the different social forces and combines spontaneity with closeness to those in need. The Church is one of those living forces: she is alive with the love enkindled by the Spirit of Christ. This love does not simply offer people material help, but refreshment and care for their souls, something which often is even more necessary than material support. In the end, the claim that just social structures would make works of charity superfluous masks a materialist conception of man: the mistaken notion that man can live “by bread alone” (Mt 4:4; cf. Dt 8:3)—a conviction that demeans man and ultimately disregards all that is specifically human. (Benedict XVI, Deus Caritatis Est, , 2005, 28b)
[The Church] condemns economic liberalism. Everyone thinks [knows] that the Church is against Communism, but it is as opposed to that system as it is to the savage economic liberalism which exists today. That is not Christian either and we cannot accept it. (Cardinal Bergoglio/Pope Francis, On Heaven and Earth, 2011)
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R
RPRPsych
Guest
No. As far as my reading of social encyclicals (Rerum Novarum, Quadregesimo Anno, and so on) has told me, Catholics can be monarchists, or believe in a democratic or republican form of government, but cannot endorse communism or socialism - because these two systems deny human dignity and free will, and make them subordinate to an all-powerful state. Communism is the political version of the Tower of Babel - it is a man-made edifice that arrogantly ascribes to itself powers that belong to God alone. And history teaches us that Communism is a brutal, violent, and immoral system.
[Having said that, I work for a socialised health-care system run by the government, so I shouldn’t be throwing too many stones.]
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ClearWater
Guest
No.
Look at movies on communism and its interaction with Christianity and Catholicism!
Communism has been brutal to religion.
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john330
Guest
I think the only aspect of communism that is contrary to Catholicism is atheism. If there were a hypothetical communist state that did not enforce atheism then Catholicism and communism would not be at odds.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
Why do you bring up this question when Communism all but died with the demise of the USSR and its Empire. The only countries that adhere to Communism are Cuba and Mainland China.
In Cuba, Communism will probably die out, or be phased out after the death of Fidel Castro. Of course, when this happens, Miami and other parts of South Florida will empty out and the change may not be peaceful.
With China, although they are still under a totalitarian regime, what they have is far from Communism. What they have is a sort of half-breed system where some private entrepeneurship is not only allowed, but encouraged. It is sort of a socialist system with bribable officials. It is very unlikely that China will ever revert to the ways of Chairman Mao and Chou En Lai.
Dispell yourself of any romantic ideas that Communism was for the people! It never worked that way. The only people who benefitted from it were those in the ruling class and those with connections to the ruling class. All others toiled for the benefit of the rulers and their friends. In reality, the political and economic system in the USSR and its satelite States was so corrupt that the American Tamany Hall of the late 1800’s could give the Russians and their friends lessons in honest government. If you really want to find out what it was to live under Communism, seek out any immigrant from Eastern Europe or Cuba and ask them. You will get an education!
In Cuba, Communism will probably die out, or be phased out after the death of Fidel Castro. Of course, when this happens, Miami and other parts of South Florida will empty out and the change may not be peaceful.
With China, although they are still under a totalitarian regime, what they have is far from Communism. What they have is a sort of half-breed system where some private entrepeneurship is not only allowed, but encouraged. It is sort of a socialist system with bribable officials. It is very unlikely that China will ever revert to the ways of Chairman Mao and Chou En Lai.
Dispell yourself of any romantic ideas that Communism was for the people! It never worked that way. The only people who benefitted from it were those in the ruling class and those with connections to the ruling class. All others toiled for the benefit of the rulers and their friends. In reality, the political and economic system in the USSR and its satelite States was so corrupt that the American Tamany Hall of the late 1800’s could give the Russians and their friends lessons in honest government. If you really want to find out what it was to live under Communism, seek out any immigrant from Eastern Europe or Cuba and ask them. You will get an education!
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O_S_C
Guest
In fact, if you read classical communist philosophers such as Karl Marx you will notice that they are not only hostile towards what we now call ‘totalitarianism’, but they are against the state as such. Marx thought that states have two central aspects; one being bureaucracy and this aspect was to be abolished immediatly by the revolution, and be replaced by democratic bottom-up forms of goverment (that is the people are not just only to elect members of parliament, but also judges, military officers, hospital directors etc). The second central aspect of the state is the monopoly of violence and this was according to Marx to be abolished when peace and unity has grown so much among men that it is not longer needed.
I believe it is perfectly possible to be a catholic and a communist. There’s some notable examples of such individuals. One being the late Herbert McCabe, oxford theologican, dominican friar and catholic priest - one of the most influential and respected catholic philosophers of the 20th century. In his book “God Matters” McCabe claims that participation on the side of the working class in the class struggle - and violent participation if need be - is not only compatible with christian love but demanded by it.
McCabe believes that christianity and communism (again, notice that with “communism” we do not mean anything similar to the system in the USSR) have very much in common because they both announce the improbable possibility that men might live together without war; neither by domination nor by antagonism but by unity in love.
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