Catholicism and Harry Potter?

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Portrait said:
Morever, little serious attention has been given to the fact that the foundational element of the series is witchcraft and sorcery, unlike the great fantasy works of Messrs. Tolkein and Lewis.
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The witchcraft and sorcery, as has been stated, is not the same as witchcraft in the real world. This importance of this cannot be underestimated.
Now the huge problem with these Potter books is that they prevent the young from developing a* properly ordered* sense of good and evil, which is hardly surprising since they are relativistic products of our relativistic age.
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In what way?
Perhaps the most alarming thing about the Potter books is that they stimulate an unhealthy interest in the occultic subcultures.
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Proof?
The major difference between the two types of magic is that the Harry Potter characters are involved in occultic style magic, albeit in a fictional context.
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The characters are not involved in occultic style magic; rather, the magic is part of the universe like gravity or the weak nuclear force.

Portrait, I am disappointed and, frankly, offended. You are consistently one of the most disrespectful posters on this site because you completely ignore anything anyone is telling you. If you want a soapbox, go start a blog. But when posters take the time to respond to you in a reasonable manner, and you ignore completely their posts or only select from them in order to post your walls of (incorrectly) didactic text, you are eschewing your responsibilities as a forum member and lowering the level of discourse.

Consider all these unanswered questions in my last post:
Myself:
You have therefore not fulfilled either of the necessary conditions:
  1. Proof that occult activity is increasing (in particular in this age)
  2. Proof that this activity is due to Harry Potter
Please note that “the media” is not sufficient for condition 2. You are condemning particular books, and so you need to demonstrate that those books in particular inevitably (even without parental guidance) lead to an interest in occult activity.
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Did he read them? Could he specify exactly what the “signature of the king of darkness” is?
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The fact that something can lead to something bad in the hands of the foolish does not mean that it should be banned. Am I to ban all shoes because I can beat someone to death with one? Should we ban candles because they can be used to burn down houses?
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Why read a book simply to determine whether you should read another book?
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These are, of course, questions that challenge the coherence of your argument, and form the crux of mine. I am sad to see that you are so incapable of admitting the possibility that your judgment is not authoritative and that you may be wrong that you are willing to act rudely toward other posters.
 
Kamaduck said:
This thread makes me want to finally read the books.

I don’t think that was what Portrait intended, but I’m definitely going to now. One of the adults at my church recommended them, too, so I think they must be good. 🙂
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I think you’d like them.

Now for my response to Portrait:

Portrait, I fully agree that you make sound arguments. However, the crux of your argument, the evidence your entire reply is built upon, has yet to be proven. I have yet to hear any solid evidence that Potter-magic is occultic. IF it is, then yes, you make many good points. However, and as many posters have pointed out, their magic is as fundamental a law of their universe as gravity is of ours. Unless you can soundly dismiss that case and prove that the Potter characters are making deals with the devil for occultic powers, I must respectfully dismiss your posts as baseless.
 
Kamaduck: I recommend reading the books. My 15-year old read them all, the first one when she was 9 or so. She was a little late to the game, having seen the first movie before reading the books, but she did finally read all of them. I read all of them before she read them, so that we could talk about the content. I wasn’t worried about the “magic” because it’s not real. And she didn’t start running around the house shouting “avada kadavra” when she was mad about something.

I love the series because it’s well-written, and frankly, the theme of friendship runs so strongly that you can almost forget that they are wizards. As my daughter was going through various stages in elementary school and middle school, I could ask her what would Jesus do, but I also asked her many times what she thought Harry would do.

I think the people who don’t like HP are just afraid. JK Rowling has a God-given talent, and I believe he approves of how she used it. The series is responsible for getting a lot of young children interested in reading. Before HP, there were not a lot of well-written books for children. She raised the bar.

But that’s just my humble opinion
 
Portrait, two answers please: Have you read the books? Have you seen the films?
 
Kamaduck said:
This thread makes me want to finally read the books.

I don’t think that was what Portrait intended, but I’m definitely going to now. One of the adults at my church recommended them, too, so I think they must be good. 🙂
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Read them! I’m reading them for the first time myself, and I’m thoroughly enjoying the world of Harry Potter. The books are just plain fun!
 
JDGaney said:
I’m just curious to see what the general Catholic opinion on J. K. Rowling’s popular saga. I understand that very fanatic people will call it satanic and evil, as they say it promotes witchcraft.
First off, I only liked Harry Potter from 1999-2003 and just gave up on it, because they were making the movies while the books were still being written and it took forever for book 5 to come out, and in that time I came to love J. R. R. Tolkien’s Middle Earth. I love The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

But why do Christians endorse J. R. R. Tolkien’s works, which he wrote as Christian (particularly Catholic) allegories, as well as C. S. Lewis’ Narnia series, but believe Harry Potter comes from the depths of hell? I was always aware that true witchcraft was bad and that the only true faith was Christianity, particularly Catholicism. I never met anybody who was inspired to dabble in satanism and the occult because they read Harry Potter? This magic they speak of is fiction, and real magic is to be condemned. As long as they know the difference…? How can we endorse certain fantasy stories by people like Tolkien and Lewis, but we condemn J. K. Rowling as being inspired by the devil?
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Who is condemning Harry Potter?

I’m I a heretic now or something? :confused:

:rolleyes:
 
Man, Harry Potter threads, how do they work!?
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Portrait:
…
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Oh, right.
 
I’ll jump on the bandwagon and urge those who expressed an interest in reading them to do so. I read and watched all of them within about a three-month period – yes, I was a latecomer 😃 I had never had any desire to read the HP books at all – not for any reason other than total disinterest. My “nephew” - my best friend’s son – had kind of ruined them for me because that’s ALL he talked about and I got him some HP stuff for Christmas one time and was told I’d gotten the wrong things (and that’s a different story when I told him I’d gladly take them back and get something for myself since he didn’t want them). Then fast forward to several years ago. After being cajoled by my friends to watch the first movie, I gave in; and thoroughly enjoyed it.

While there were Christian threads running all the way through it if you chose to look, there were also some great analogies to history and could be used as a great teaching tool for children of an appropriate age. I saw a lot of references to WWII and Hitler (Voldemort) wanting to keep the wizarding world pure and keep out the mudbloods (the Jewish race).
 
Fairwinds said:
physically fit, mentally unstable.
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Wait… Which side are you on?

If you’re on the anti-Potter side, realize: This is what happens when people make a normal sport out of a fantastical sport. How is this different from a lightsaber toy, or a video game, or Quenya being a fully developed language?

(I actually speak a tiny bit of Quenya)
 
Razanir said:
Wait… Which side are you on?

If you’re on the anti-Potter side, realize: This is what happens when people make a normal sport out of a fantastical sport. How is this different from a lightsaber toy, or a video game, or Quenya being a fully developed language?
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on an intellectual level, I can deal with people running around in circles on a playing field, as bad as soccer is, it gets people out into sunshine. but look at that linked photo … those dudes are holding booms between their legs pretending to fly. the mind rebels, begins to shut down…
Razanir said:
(I actually speak a tiny bit of Quenya)
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I’ve never found a good Quenya translation of this sad tale from lower middle earth …
An elven-maid there was of old,
A stenographer by day;
Her hair was fake, her teeth were gold,
Her scent was that of cheap sachet.
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Has anyone else here read The Gospel According to Harry Potter by Connie Neal? She’s Protestant, I think Presbyterian but I don’t know for sure, but she provides a good, solid, generic Christian view that points out the “Christian therms in the stories along with universal therms of goodness”, and shows how the books could be used to share the gospel message. For example, she uses the Devel’s Snare plant from book one as a metaphor for sin. I’ve also remember an apologist on this very sight that used the Harry Potter series to help explain how the choices we make mold is into the kind of people we become, and I think I remember Voldemort’s story being used to explain mortal sin and it’s consequences on the soul.
 
JDGaney said:
I’m just curious to see what the general Catholic opinion on J. K. Rowling’s popular saga. I understand that very fanatic people will call it satanic and evil, as they say it promotes witchcraft.
First off, I only liked Harry Potter from 1999-2003 and just gave up on it, because they were making the movies while the books were still being written and it took forever for book 5 to come out, and in that time I came to love J. R. R. Tolkien’s Middle Earth. I love The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

But why do Christians endorse J. R. R. Tolkien’s works, which he wrote as Christian (particularly Catholic) allegories, as well as C. S. Lewis’ Narnia series, but believe Harry Potter comes from the depths of hell? I was always aware that true witchcraft was bad and that the only true faith was Christianity, particularly Catholicism. I never met anybody who was inspired to dabble in satanism and the occult because they read Harry Potter? This magic they speak of is fiction, and real magic is to be condemned. As long as they know the difference…? How can we endorse certain fantasy stories by people like Tolkien and Lewis, but we condemn J. K. Rowling as being inspired by the devil?
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As a person who was/somewhat is Wiccan, I can tell you any time Harry Potter comes up we laugh. Hard. And not of satanic glee.

Harry Potters brand of magic is totally secular, and aside from a brief section in the 7th book where Harry is between life and death there is almost no mention at all of religion. His powers arnt “Satanic”, because 1. they are fictional characters and 2. they involve no religious practice what so ever.

On the other hand Magic in Neo-Paganism is totally religious, and in practice works totally different. Harry waves a stick and shouts a latin phrase and something spectacular happens. Wiccans meditate, use herbs, circles, various ancient languages, and calling on dietys to produce even the most subtle changes.

Obviously it probably increases the google search of “magic”, but Potter has nothing to do with modern witchcraft.
 
Skadi said:
As a person who was/somewhat is Wiccan, I can tell you any time Harry Potter comes up we laugh. Hard. And not of satanic glee.

Harry Potters brand of magic is totally secular, and aside from a brief section in the 7th book where Harry is between life and death there is almost no mention at all of religion. His powers arnt “Satanic”, because 1. they are fictional characters and 2. they involve no religious practice what so ever.

On the other hand Magic in Neo-Paganism is totally religious, and in practice works totally different. Harry waves a stick and shouts a latin phrase and something spectacular happens. Wiccans meditate, use herbs, circles, various ancient languages, and calling on dietys to produce even the most subtle changes.

Obviously it probably increases the google search of “magic”, but Potter has nothing to do with modern witchcraft.
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Well it’s not even Latin all the time. Some HP spells are Latin. Expecto patronum is Latin for “I await a protector.” Some spells are faux-Latin, like wingardium leviOsa (not levioSA :D). And some are from non-Latin sources, like avada kedavra, It’s actually an Aramaic phrase meaning “Be destroyed at this word” and etymologically related to abracadabra which comes form the same phrase
 
Razanir said:
Well it’s not even Latin all the time. Some HP spells are Latin. Expecto patronum is Latin for “I await a protector.” Some spells are faux-Latin, like wingardium leviOsa (not levioSA :D). And some are from non-Latin sources, like avada kedavra, It’s actually an Aramaic phrase meaning “Be destroyed at this word” and etymologically related to abracadabra which comes form the same phrase
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Hmm, interesting, I didnt know this. Yay fun facts!👍
 
Well, I made macadamia and coconut crusted corvina (Sea Bass) for myself and my daughter and it was actually quite good as well as simple to make. First time using the recipe which would normally use halibut or mahi-mahi- but no halibut at the store and the mahi-mahi looked rather dicey.
 
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