Catholicism and Hasidism

[narrowpath]

I love reading stories about Hasidic rebbes and what they said, as well as learning about Hasdidic philosophy.

I don’t agree with everything they say, but I think that there is a potential treasure chest of guidance and teachings which catholics would do well to look at.

Your thoughts?

 

[T700]

I love reading stories about Hasidic rebbes and what they said, as well as learning about Hasdidic philosophy.

I don’t agree with everything they say, but I think that there is a potential treasure chest of guidance and teachings which catholics would do well to look at.

Your thoughts?

Could you give some examples of the teachings that you find valuable?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[notsmart]

I think Maddona tried that for a while? Or was it the human secularist version of Judaism? It was one of the various versions. Too many I guess.

All groups have nice things to say. Not sure I want to follow them all though.

 

[narrowpath]

Madonna follows secularist, new age kabbalah.

I enjoyed the book “Souls on fire - Portraits of Hasidic Masters” by Elie Wiesel.

There were others. I’ll look up the titles later (can’t remember them all right now).

some teachings I find valuable are the importance with which they regard personal prayer, a relationship with God, living a moral life, and more.

Yes, I realize that catholics and others also follow these truths, but the Hasids I read about just seem to have such an in depth relationship w/ God. They have the faith of saints!

I also like the way they read the scriptures, focusing on different levels of meaning.

 

[notsmart]

Madonna follows secularist, new age kabbalah.

I enjoyed the book “Souls on fire - Portraits of Hasidic Masters” by Elie Wiesel.

There were others. I’ll look up the titles later (can’t remember them all right now).

some teachings I find valuable are the importance with which they regard personal prayer, a relationship with God, living a moral life, and more.

Yes, I realize that catholics and others also follow these truths, but the Hasids I read about just seem to have such an in depth relationship w/ God. They have the faith of saints!

I also like the way they read the scriptures, focusing on different levels of meaning.

I see no problem in finding it enriching to you.
I will check out the book if its available to me.

 

[ralphinal]

Madonna follows secularist, new age kabbalah.

I enjoyed the book “Souls on fire - Portraits of Hasidic Masters” by Elie Wiesel.

There were others. I’ll look up the titles later (can’t remember them all right now).

some teachings I find valuable are the importance with which they regard personal prayer, a relationship with God, living a moral life, and more.

Yes, I realize that catholics and others also follow these truths, but the Hasids I read about just seem to have such an in depth relationship w/ God. They have the faith of saints!

I also like the way they read the scriptures, focusing on different levels of meaning.

Actually, Catholics already do both. Well, we are encouraged to.

 

[Matariel]

Madonna follows secularist, new age kabbalah…

You must keep in mind that the real, ancient Kaballah is completely different from the modern, new-age, Lurianic Kaballah, and the ancient Jewish Kaballah is completely reconcilable with Catholic thought. As a matter of fact, there is a nearly identical Catholic system of Kaballah (Lullist Kaballah) which is vicariously approved by the Church, since they made Raymond Llull, the great philospher of Catholic Kaballah, a Blessed.

Just wanted to say, the modern, new-age, Lurianic Kaballah is completely different from the ancient Jewish heritage of Kaballah.

 

[narrowpath]

Lullist kabbalah? There’s one I haven’t heard of…I should check that out. Thanks.

 

[narrowpath]

You must keep in mind that the real, ancient Kaballah is completely different from the modern, new-age, Lurianic Kaballah, and the ancient Jewish Kaballah is completely reconcilable with Catholic thought. As a matter of fact, there is a nearly identical Catholic system of Kaballah (Lullist Kaballah) which is vicariously approved by the Church, since they made Raymond Llull, the great philospher of Catholic Kaballah, a Blessed.

Just wanted to say, the modern, new-age, Lurianic Kaballah is completely different from the ancient Jewish heritage of Kaballah.

Totally agree. See my post about Madonna…

 

[Matariel]

Totally agree. See my post about Madonna…

Yeah, at first his (Llull’s) writings were prohibited because an enemy of his convinced the Pope, but later popes were impressed by his spirituality and even beatified him.

If you look at it, there are basically Christian versions of the Tree of Life, Sephiroth (he called them Dignities) and etc. and the whole philosophy of Kabbalah.

It was Lull’s ultimate aim to convert the “heathens” to the Catholic Church which was the way he intended to convert was through rational and mystical doctrine, rather than the tortures that the Church was to employ so efficiently and brutally some two centuries later during the Inquisition.

Lull based his Art on the importance which monotheistic religions attached to the Divine Names or Attributes, or, as he called them, Dignities. Lull mentioned nine Dignities (or Dignitaries): Bonitas (Goodness), Magnitudo (Greatness), Eternitas (Eternity), Potestas (Power), Sapientia (Wisdom), Voluntas (Will), Virtus (Virtue), Veritas (Truth), and Gloria (Glory). Malkuth from Jewish Kabbalah is missing, as Creation in Llullism is concieved of as being a completely different order-of-being.

Later a form of Renaissance Christian Kabbalah (Hermetic Kabbalah, which is somewhat impure) was derived from a number of sources. Firstly, the Christological speculations of a number of Jewish converts from the late 13th to the late fifteenth centuries.

Look up Blessed Raymond Llull.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
I don’t agree with everything they say, but I think that there is a potential treasure chest of guidance and teachings which catholics would do well to look at.**

When we say in the Creed that we believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, it means (among other things) that we don’t have to go nosing around outside of her for spiritual goodies or guidance.

 

[Henning]

I love reading stories about Hasidic rebbes and what they said, as well as learning about Hasdidic philosophy.

I don’t agree with everything they say, but I think that there is a potential treasure chest of guidance and teachings which catholics would do well to look at.

Your thoughts?

That depends on which rebbe. Here’s a short article (esp paragraphs 3 and 4) about an Hasidic rebbe Schneerson. From article,
"One Lubavitch newspaper wrote the following about Schneerson–after his death: “May our Master, Teacher, and Rabbi the King Messiah live forever.”

 

[Matariel]

That depends on which rebbe. Here’s a short article (esp paragraphs 3 and 4) about an Hasidic rebbe Schneerson. From article,
"One Lubavitch newspaper wrote the following about Schneerson–after his death: “May our Master, Teacher, and Rabbi the King Messiah live forever.”

They probably meant it in a mystical way. Hasidism is chock-full of mystical thinking, just like Catholic mysticism, what with “union with God” and “spiritual marriage to Christ”.

 

[Robbinson]

They probably meant it in a mystical way. Hasidism is chock-full of mystical thinking, just like Catholic mysticism, what with “union with God” and “spiritual marriage to Christ”.

Actually - many Lubuvuch believe their Rebbe (now deceseasd) is the Messiah and after denying the messianic nature of Isaiah 53, now point to it to support his ultimate resurrection and return as Messiah (that’s ironic). While this belief is not shared by the vast majority of Jews (including modern orthodox) they still consider the Lubuvich to be “jewish” notwithstanding this belief, but generally deny that messianic jews (who believe that Jesus is the messiah) can be jewish.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[linuxgeek71]

As a matter of fact, there is a nearly identical Catholic system of Kaballah (Lullist Kaballah) which is vicariously approved by the Church, since they made Raymond Llull, the great philospher of Catholic Kaballah, a Blessed.

Lull is considered to have done great good for the Church but his rationalistic mysticism has been formally condemned. He fails to distinguish between natural and supernatural truth. So one should be cautious of his writings, though there is certainly much good in them.

 

[Matariel]

Lull is considered to have done great good for the Church but his rationalistic mysticism has been formally condemned. He fails to distinguish between natural and supernatural truth. So one should be cautious of his writings, though there is certainly much good in them.

I thought the condemnation was retracted?

At any rate, I *still *advise anyone who reads him to be very, very careful. Many of his writings are hard to understand fully.

 

[linuxgeek71]

I thought the condemnation was retracted?

At any rate, I *still *advise anyone who reads him to be very, very careful. Many of his writings are hard to understand fully.

I think it wasn’t retracted (I have seen nothing showing it was or wasn’t) only because he has stayed at the level of blessed, yet he is a martyr. Martyrdom usually means an automatic canonization, so I think this suggests the Church is unsure if he died a heretic or not.

 

[Matariel]

I think it wasn’t retracted (I have seen nothing showing it was or wasn’t) only because he has stayed at the level of blessed, yet he is a martyr. Martyrdom usually means an automatic canonization, so I think this suggests the Church is unsure if he died a heretic or not.

If he’s beatified, he can’t be a heretic, can he?

Or is only sainthood an infallible decision?

 

[Vanquisher]

**
I don’t agree with everything they say, but I think that there is a potential treasure chest of guidance and teachings which catholics would do well to look at.**

When we say in the Creed that we believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, it means (among other things) that we don’t have to go nosing around outside of her for spiritual goodies or guidance.

AMEN!

 

[linuxgeek71]

If he’s beatified, he can’t be a heretic, can he?

Or is only sainthood an infallible decision?

I may have misused the word heretic. I only meant that he held a heretical belief. This in and of itself does not prevent one from entering heaven so long as the belief was of an innocent nature, that is the Church did not tell you otherwise or you would have repented had you known. Even St. Augustine was too extreme with predestination but he is certainly a Saint.