Catholicism and Immigration

[4GBradley]

If I do not know, nor do I ask if they are legal or not, they are fellow human beings. Once I know they are illegal, I then become part-and-parcel to the illegal act if I assist in them remaining such, other then the necessities needed for existence. In essence, I should turn them in to the authorities, but make sure they are well fed for the trip back.

It is that law, where it would show up on one’s ID there valid dates to be here, that got defeated at our state level. We are to remain a ‘don’t ask… don’t tell’ people. More or less, let the INS track them down and do what they do, at the federal level… keeping the state in the dark. There are ways that they get caught at the state level, and that is by no ID, wrong ID with finger prints, someone turning them in at the employee level, and mostly hap-hazard, rather then proper enforcement.

The cleaning up of America won’t cost Americans because you charge the country of origin for their expulsion. That is only fair. Their people have been exploiting the situation and using it against the people of the United States. It is only just that the country of origin makes restitution for the damages their own people create.

I was just talking to my cousin’s wife who is from Poland. She has just come back from a month’s visit over the Christmas holidays. I asked her how are things going over there and she said there is high unemployment and very few possibilities for the citizens. They still use the Zloty which is like the Polish dollar and are waiting to adopt the Euro.

The real betrayal of Poland by the United States is the hardship placed upon Polish citizens to immigrate here. Since Latin America has been pouring across the US border the chances for a fair immigration from other countries is slim. Considering that Poland sent troops to the Middle East and many Polish soldiers died there, the “knife in the back” from the US is greater than with countries who take a siesta every time there’s work to be done.

I asked her about her own immigration experience. She said she has been a US citizen since the early 70s when becoming one was extremely difficult. You had to have sponsors who basically put their financial necks in a noose. If the immigrant did something wrong, the sponsor could lose everything they owned. That was no joke. It was the real thing and the US government took it seriously. Not like today, where US passports are handed out like peanuts and citizenship is laughable.

But I guess everything has had to be dumbed down for the third worlders. You might someday find doctors practicing medicine who passed an online exam and got their license through an e-mail. Once you start lowering standards, you’ll never stop. They won’t let you!

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[grampben]

The cleaning up of America

Oh!!

First xenophobia, now ethnic cleansing.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

The cleaning up of America

won’t cost Americans because you charge the country of origin for their expulsion. That is only fair. Their people have been exploiting the situation and using it against the people of the United States. It is only just that the country of origin makes restitution for the damages their own people create.

That would be one massive bill. And would Mexico pay it? And if they didn’t pay the bill, what are you going to do about it? Bomb them? And since you and I know that they won’t pay for it, who is going to pay for it on the front end? The U.S. would. Your tax dollars and mine. It’s not in our budget, not when we’re in a deep recession.

 

[4GBradley]

That would be one massive bill. And would Mexico pay it? And if they didn’t pay the bill, what are you going to do about it? Bomb them? And since you and I know that they won’t pay for it, who is going to pay for it on the front end? The U.S. would. Your tax dollars and mine. It’s not in our budget, not when we’re in a deep recession.

And your solution is to do nothing while American culture, American society, and the American country are destroyed by an invading force. Just because you call evil by another name does not allow you to stand around and do nothing.

It takes far more courage to act when the choices for action are repugnant, than to take no action and deny all responsibility for what happens. To make no decision at all is not to avoid responsibility; it is to endorse whatever decision is reached by others. It is meaningless to oppose a plan, however onerous the plan may be, if you offer no substitute course of action. Sticking your head in the sand does not absolve you from responsibility for what happens around you. Doing nothing is no solution to a moral dilemma but merely avoidance of a solution.

Christians are, therefore, faced with a dilemma: when assaulted by evil, they must oppose it through direct action. They have no other option. Any failure to act is simply to condone evil.

•          *Ethics... Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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[4GBradley]

Oh!!

First xenophobia, now ethnic cleansing.

Why don’t you comment on the rest of what I said?

Why has Poland, a friend and ally to the US been stabbed in the back, while Mexico, an invader, has been helped with billions of dollars in aid over the years?

The US has to remember who its friends are and who is just a deadbeat dragging the country down.

 

[grampben]

Why don’t you comment on the rest of what I said?

Why has Poland, a friend and ally to the US been stabbed in the back, while Mexico, an invader, has been helped with billions of dollars in aid over the years?

The US has to remember who its friends are and who is just a deadbeat dragging the country down.

Well why don’t you run for public office and get the ‘silent majority’ to agree with you instead of poisoning this forum. It’s obvious noone here agrees with you, except for your 3 other personalities.

 

[4GBradley]

Well why don’t you run for public office and get the ‘silent majority’ to agree with you instead of poisoning this forum. It’s obvious noone here agrees with you, except for your 3 other personalities.

Why not come up with a solution instead of foaming at the mouth.
And if you think God was against war as a solution to evil, explain this:

Ecclesiastes
Chapter 3

1 There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens.

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant.

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to tear down, and a time to build.

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.

5 A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather them; a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.

6 A time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away.

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to be silent, and a time to speak.

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 

[grampben]

Why not come up with a solution instead of foaming at the mouth.
And if you think God was against war as a solution to evil, explain this:

Ecclesiastes
Chapter 3

1 There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens.

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant.

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to tear down, and a time to build.

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.

5 A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather them; a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.

6 A time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away.

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to be silent, and a time to speak.

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

The church teaches war is only permissible if it abides by the Just War theory.

 

[Nino]

well since my parents came over the pond last century to make a new life…my dad at age 12 and mom at age 21 in 1921 the LAST year Italians were allowed to immigrate to the land of the free I feel I am qualified to join in. My dad became a citizen by going to nite school,learning the language and the history and constitution of this great land…my mom could write and speak Italian fluently and thus also had no problem…they both paid into the system. In the 10 commandments there is something as I recall about stealing. If workers lend themselves out and work off the books they low ball taxpaying workers thus putting them out of work…I kinda think this in unfair and a sin. If new comers are allowed to send their children to public schools without paying taxes,I kinder feel this is a sin…immigration does in many cases benefit a nation…new ideas,willing hands to do jobs that their 'betters’wont do etc…but when my dad and then later my mom came over they had to have passports to show they were not criminals…thats where the term 'wop’came into play,that meant ‘without passport’ in others words to call someone that name means they are of a criminal nature.also a medical exam had to be passed…imagine having a friend not being allowed into Ellis Island because of a contagious disease etc…we have seen the tragedies of no medical exam.TB is back etc etc…well who cares…no one wants to be called a hater so I will just hope the tolerant ones wont be too harsh and …oops…a knock on the door and its 3am…shhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

And your solution is to do nothing while American culture, American society, and the American country are destroyed by an invading force. Just because you call evil by another name does not allow you to stand around and do nothing.

No, it’s not. I actually wrote out 3 options of dealing with the problem. I just questioned how we were going to pay for it. We are not being invaded or destroyed. And we’ve round and round on this before. Your idea of what American culture and society is or should be is a false utopia that only has white people living in it. That’s wrong historically and morally. You can keep repeating the mantra, but it’s not going to change anything.

It takes far more courage to act when the choices for action are repugnant, than to take no action and deny all responsibility for what happens. To make no decision at all is not to avoid responsibility; it is to endorse whatever decision is reached by others. It is meaningless to oppose a plan, however onerous the plan may be, if you offer no substitute course of action. Sticking your head in the sand does not absolve you from responsibility for what happens around you. Doing nothing is no solution to a moral dilemma but merely avoidance of a solution.

Christians are, therefore, faced with a dilemma: when assaulted by evil, they must oppose it through direct action. They have no other option. Any failure to act is simply to condone evil.

•          *Ethics... Dietrich Bonhoeffer

---

Okay then, preacher Bradley. Now, instead of preaching to the choir, why don’t you lay out your plan right here and right now - including how you are going to do it, how you are going to pay for it, how you are going to implement and maintain this plan.

Or better yet, as I’ve told you before, go talk to your locally elected officials about it. Run for political office. Start your own grass-roots campaign to end illegal immigration. Do something instead of coming on here complaining about it, spewing your filthy racist comments and embarrassing yourself as a professed Christian.

 

[4GBradley]

No, it’s not. I actually wrote out 3 options of dealing with the problem. I just questioned how we were going to pay for it. We are not being invaded or destroyed. And we’ve round and round on this before. Your idea of what American culture and society is or should be is a false utopia that only has white people living in it. That’s wrong historically and morally. You can keep repeating the mantra, but it’s not going to change anything.

You offer no solutions only the “God loves us all” rhetoric. We are being invaded by a certain group of people as this can be mapped by all big city school systems. I can go on the Illinois Board of Educations website and see exactly how each town is being overrun with one particular group. This is not racism, IT IS FACT!

The American Culture is being driven into the ground and will soon be a shadow of what it used to be. That must be what you want as you keep defending these invaders.

Okay then, preacher Bradley. Now, instead of preaching to the choir, why don’t you lay out your plan right here and right now - including how you are going to do it, how you are going to pay for it, how you are going to implement and maintain this plan.

Like most narrow minds you can’t see anything other than what people have put in front of your nose.

This is a military problem that needs a military solution. Before dropping bombs I would cut off all aid to the offending countries. I would make it near impossible for money to move across the border. I would also address the rest of the world to do the same. Economic sanctions could bleed them white. Those sanctions will not be lifted until the criminals who invaded return to their countries at their expense and leave everything they fraudulently appropriated in this country. Simple and just. And that is just the start.

Or better yet, as I’ve told you before, go talk to your locally elected officials about it. Run for political office. Start your own grass-roots campaign to end illegal immigration. Do something instead of coming on here complaining about it, spewing your filthy racist comments and embarrassing yourself as a professed Christian.

Here is a typical response of someone who hasn’t a clue about how the world works. Starting a political campaign takes a minimum of 10 years to get the ball rolling. Our politicians are already used to the average American complaining but not doing anything.

Calling people racist shows just how desparate you are. I’ve noticed that your entire mood changes with every message.

First, Let’s all pray for him. He’s a lost soul!

Then

You’re nothing but a racist. Why don’t you drop dead!!!

For a guy who PRETENDS to be Mr. Holy, you need to examine your own posts.

Maybe you should make an appointment with that guy who claims to be an “exorcist”!!

Oh! Wait a minute!! That’s YOU!

Physician, heal thyself!

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

You offer no solutions only the “God loves us all” rhetoric. We are being invaded by a certain group of people as this can be mapped by all big city school systems. I can go on the Illinois Board of Educations website and see exactly how each town is being overrun with one particular group. This is not racism, IT IS FACT!

Yes, I have.

From my post #87:

1. To find and deport all illegal immigrants would cost a fortune. And it still wouldn’t keep others from coming through.
2. To build a fence along the southern border would also be expensive. And it still wouldn’t keep everyone out.
3. To help Mexico fix its problems so that their people could live and prosper in their own country (avoiding the need to immigrate) is a long-term solution that again would cost a fortune.

Probably, to do both 1, 2 and 3 is the way to go, which leaves us with how to practically and monetarily do that.

The American Culture is being driven into the ground and will soon be a shadow of what it used to be. That must be what you want as you keep defending these invaders.

Like most narrow minds you can’t see anything other than what people have put in front of your nose.

Such as?

This is a military problem that needs a military solution. Before dropping bombs I would cut off all aid to the offending countries. I would make it near impossible for money to move across the border. I would also address the rest of the world to do the same. Economic sanctions could bleed them white. Those sanctions will not be lifted until the criminals who invaded return to their countries at their expense and leave everything they fraudulently appropriated in this country. Simple and just. And that is just the start.

Military problem? Wow! So, you would drop bombs? You advocate a military solution to the immigration problem. Start another war when we are already have two military campaigns going on. Economic sanctions, sure. I would agree with that.

Here is a typical response of someone who hasn’t a clue about how the world works. Starting a political campaign takes a minimum of 10 years to get the ball rolling. Our politicians are already used to the average American complaining but not doing anything.

Well, the only other viable option for elected officials who will do nothing is to vote them out of office or get into office yourself. That’s how our system works. You may not like it, but that’s what America was founded on. If you want a dictatorship and all-white citizenship then join the National Socialist Party.

Calling people racist shows just how desparate you are. I’ve noticed that your entire mood changes with every message.

You have called immigrants animals and repeatedly talked about hispanics in derogatory terms. That shows racism. Show where I’ve changed moods and messages.

First, Let’s all pray for him. He’s a lost soul!

Then

You’re nothing but a racist. Why don’t you drop dead!!!

I do advocate praying for you. I never said the words you have put in my mouth. Prove I said it or recant this libel.

For a guy who PRETENDS to be Mr. Holy, you need to examine your own posts.

Maybe you should make an appointment with that guy who claims to be an “exorcist”!!

Oh! Wait a minute!! That’s YOU!

Physician, heal thyself!

Ad hominem attacks to distract attention away from your agenda. I don’t pretend to be Mr. Holy. I’ve argued the points of the post. Answer the arguments, why don’t you? Again, show me in my posts where I’ve done otherwise. I’ll recant my statements if you show them. I also expect you to recant yours.

 

[Lujack]

You offer no solutions only the “God loves us all” rhetoric. We are being invaded by a certain group of people as this can be mapped by all big city school systems. I can go on the Illinois Board of Educations website and see exactly how each town is being overrun with one particular group. This is not racism, IT IS FACT!

The American Culture is being driven into the ground and will soon be a shadow of what it used to be. That must be what you want as you keep defending these invaders.

What is the American Culture? Are the Irish involved? The Germans? Italians? Eastern Europeans? Blacks? Jews? Catholics? Russians? Chinese? Japanese?

Everyone of these groups has been branded a threat to American culture at one time or another.

 

[Ender]

From my post #87:

1. To find and deport all illegal immigrants would cost a fortune. And it still wouldn’t keep others from coming through.
   And I will repeat from my earlier post: finding illegals is pretty much a red herring. We really don’t need to seek them out. We are not deporting the ones we find. Nor is there any reason why deportation should be that expensive; certainly not for the Mexicans. The expense incurred by deportation would be made up for in the costs saved in health care and education.
2. To build a fence along the southern border would also be expensive. And it still wouldn’t keep everyone out.
   The fence is being built and keeping “everyone” out is another red herring. It would undoubtedly keep hundreds of thousands out and that’s a good start.
3. To help Mexico fix its problems so that their people could live and prosper in their own country (avoiding the need to immigrate) is a long-term solution that again would cost a fortune.
   There is nothing the US can do to fix Mexico’s problems - although keeping Mexican’s in their own country would be a good place to start.

Ender

 

[LDNCatholic]

For someone who lives in a country made safe by Americans, you sure have a hatred of them.

You also know everything about life in America. You really are special.

You also know how Americans should feel about the invasion of their country. You’re not just special, you should be in politics.

Maybe you should bring your wonderful talent for dealing with gangs over here and tell us what we are doing wrong.

No. Why leave a safe neighborhood for one where you would have to learn a foreign language just to get a job.

I’d love to hear more about how you are single handedly saving your country, but I’d rather open a history book to see how others have handled invasions in the past.

Buenos dias, your majesty!!

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I didn’t say I am saving my country single handedly. I did not say I know everything about America. I do not live in a ‘‘safe’’ neighbourhood. I speak five languages, one of them being Spanish, adding another string to my bow is not really a concern.

You Americans have plenty of good, good people working with gangs, they just need more. I don’t hate you guys at all, in fact I have American relatives.

Also, you guys really didn’t do all that much for England to be honest, certainly not as much as you seem to think you’ve done.

Vaya con Dios

 

[LDNCatholic]

And just because you never reply to it when the point is made within another post, I will make it separately.

Other than furiously reregistering every three days on a Catholic internet forum which is not solely for the use of the American people, and whining about poor little old you and your percieved suffering, what are you doing to make your community a better place?

Complaining to people who live nowhere near you is never going to help.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

And I will repeat from my earlier post: finding illegals is pretty much a red herring. We really don’t need to seek them out. We are not deporting the ones we find. Nor is there any reason why deportation should be that expensive; certainly not for the Mexicans. The expense incurred by deportation would be made up for in the costs saved in health care and education.

I’m not trying to produce a red herring. Don’t you think it’s a real concern? I posted the cost for deporting them. You haven’t provided any. You just keep saying it should not be that expensive. Then prove it. I did. And again, the costs saved is a back end reimbursement - not a front end reality. So, who’s going to pay for this up front cost?

Ender:

The fence is being built and keeping “everyone” out is another red herring. It would undoubtedly keep hundreds of thousands out and that’s a good start.

Of course it would. And I admitted that we should probably do this. Are you reading my posts?

There is nothing the US can do to fix Mexico’s problems - although keeping Mexican’s in their own country would be a good place to start.

You keep saying the same old thing. I don’t know what we can do to totally solve the problem in Mexico. Maybe nothing. That’s why I said that SOMEONE needs to solve the overall source of the problem - the reasons they emigrate out of Mexico. Again, are you reading my posts? And, I posted my response to 4GBradley as he challenged that I didn’t have any real ideas. I already know your position. And you’ve provided nothing new.

 

[Mommomamats]

I am a protestant considering joining the Catholic church. I went to mass last week and at the end a “community organizer” of the faith spoke to us about the plight of the immigrants (I live in Arizona) and the need to provide support for them because they are our neighbors. She encouraged and praised votes against immigration laws based on “fear and prejudice” and there was a booth out front for people to sign up to help the cause.

Being a conservative republican this did not sit well with me. Being Christian, my husband and I are not as extreme in our beliefs as other border control proponents, we do believe that action needs to be taken to halt the flow of illegal immigration for the purpose of protecting our citizens. Our closest neighbors are those here in our country and we need to protect them first and then work for ways of providing for our neighboring countries.

Doing more research on the American Catholic church’s stance on illegal immigration it bothered me a great deal that it seems more action is being done to encourage the flow of illegals than work to find and fix the problems in Mexico that bring them here.

As a person considering the Catholic faith, what should I make of this. It appears the bishops in this country are working to bring its downfall. Another thing that bothered me was that the “community organizer” spoke in the parish the weekend of a city wide pro-life march and not a word was spoken about that cause.

 

[mystified]

Let’s talk about a fence. How about one along our northern border, too.
It’s history now, but the Berlin Wall didn’t stop everyone wanting to leave the Peoples Paradise of East Germany.

 

[grampben]

I am a protestant considering joining the Catholic church. I went to mass last week and at the end a “community organizer” of the faith spoke to us about the plight of the immigrants (I live in Arizona) and the need to provide support for them because they are our neighbors. She encouraged and praised votes against immigration laws based on “fear and prejudice” and there was a booth out front for people to sign up to help the cause.

Being a conservative republican this did not sit well with me. Being Christian, my husband and I are not as extreme in our beliefs as other border control proponents, we do believe that action needs to be taken to halt the flow of illegal immigration for the purpose of protecting our citizens. Our closest neighbors are those here in our country and we need to protect them first and then work for ways of providing for our neighboring countries.

Doing more research on the American Catholic church’s stance on illegal immigration it bothered me a great deal that it seems more action is being done to encourage the flow of illegals than work to find and fix the problems in Mexico that bring them here.

As a person considering the Catholic faith, what should I make of this. It appears the bishops in this country are working to bring its downfall. Another thing that bothered me was that the “community organizer” spoke in the parish the weekend of a city wide pro-life march and not a word was spoken about that cause.

If you don’t want to help them, then don’t.
The compassionate thing to do is help them out, then if you find out they’re undocumented (no person is illegal) advise them to go for legal citizenship etc.
Even undocumented human beings need God’s love and mercy, and as christians we have to show them it, not just show them the border.