Catholicism and Immigration

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Ender said:
This illustrates my point. If the proper term is criminal what is the objection to using it? It is precisely that it presents illegals in such a way as to minimize sympathy for their situation when the objective of many is to maximize the sympathy. This is the attractiveness of the benign phrase “undocumented people.”

In fact they are criminals by the natural definition and use of words. A criminal is one who has committed a crime. A crime is the commission of an act forbidden by - and punishable by - law. The fact that the term illegal aliens is typically the harshest phrase in use illustrates the slow creep of euphemistic distortion. This is precisely why people who favor the legalization of abortion call themselves pro-choice; it sounds so much more reasonable than pro-abortion.

Ender
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Okay, they are criminals. They are illegal immigrants.

We are not, as people of God, absolved of loving people who are criminals.

We are not given a pass to not feed them at the soup kitchen, or give them food from the food pantry.

I think the quandary is when our actions as the Church facilitate the illegal immigrant to live illegally in a country.
 
Ender said:
The fact that the term illegal aliens is typically the harshest phrase in use illustrates the slow creep of euphemistic distortion.
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It is not the harshiest term in use. I hear far more demeaning terms quite often. I base my word choice on context and run the whole gamut, including “illegals.”
 
PaulinVA said:
Okay, they are criminals. They are illegal immigrants.

We are not, as people of God, absolved of loving people who are criminals.

We are not given a pass to not feed them at the soup kitchen, or give them food from the food pantry.
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I have made no point in this exchange other than to present my position on how these criminals/illegals/illegal immigrants/undocumented people should be identified. It is not a trivial issue since affects how the debate is framed and ultimately helps one side or the other.
I think the quandary is when our actions as the Church facilitate the illegal immigrant to live illegally in a country.
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Yes. That is a major source of concern among Catholics.
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pnewton:
It is not the harshest term in use. I hear far more demeaning terms quite often. I base my word choice on context and run the whole gamut, including “illegals.”
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I use the term “illegals” because the true nature of their situation needs to be expressed. I avoid “criminals” not because I don’t think it true but because it is inflammatory to some and prejudices the debate. It is strictly a tactical decision.

Ender
 
Ender said:
I have made no point in this exchange other than to present my position on how these criminals/illegals/illegal immigrants/undocumented people should be identified. It is not a trivial issue since affects how the debate is framed and ultimately helps one side or the other.

Yes. That is a major source of concern among Catholics.

I use the term “illegals” because the true nature of their situation needs to be expressed. I avoid “criminals” not because I don’t think it true but because it is inflammatory to some and prejudices the debate. It is strictly a tactical decision.

Ender
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People should read this first and learn of the evil being forced on the American public:

cis.org/ImmigrantGang
 
Mystic_Warrior said:
Well, at least this time you filled out your profile. Still, we know who you are 😉 Can a leopard change its spots?
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Regardless of who makes the comments the only real question is whether or not they are true. In this case, having read part of the article he cited, I’m guessing that you have nothing whatever to say in refutation of its thesis. Gangs composed of illegals are a problem, a serious problem in many cities and they need to be dealt with. It is incredible to me that someone would not support the apprehension and deportation of illegals who engage in criminal activities (not including the ones they engaged in just to get here).

Ender
 
Ender said:
Regardless of who makes the comments the only real question is whether or not they are true. In this case, having read part of the article he cited, I’m guessing that you have nothing whatever to say in refutation of its thesis. Gangs composed of illegals are a problem, a serious problem in many cities and they need to be dealt with. It is incredible to me that someone would not support the apprehension and deportation of illegals who engage in criminal activities (not including the ones they engaged in just to get here).

Ender
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Thank you for not calling me a racist.

I believe there are two parts to the Catholic Church. The first is what God had in mind and is the Mass and the Sacraments. The second is the politics of the Church which has been corrupted by scandal and twisted to suit the needs of any country or political group that wants to legitimize any claims it has over another.
 
Ender said:
Regardless of who makes the comments the only real question is whether or not they are true. In this case, having read part of the article he cited, I’m guessing that you have nothing whatever to say in refutation of its thesis. Gangs composed of illegals are a problem, a serious problem in many cities and they need to be dealt with. It is incredible to me that someone would not support the apprehension and deportation of illegals who engage in criminal activities (not including the ones they engaged in just to get here).

Ender
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The problem is that he’s been banned 5 times and now on his 6th identity. It makes a difference as to whether or not I accept anything he offers. Regardless of the article, I refuse to debate with such a person about said issue. You guess wrong. He has called for extermination of the Mexican people. Do you agree with that also? I won’t talk to anyone to has that mentality. Be careful who your friends are.

What’s incredible to me is that you support this person. I support the deportation of illegal persons. I just have repeatedly asked how you are going to pay for it. What I don’t support is killing them. I’ve repeated this over and over, but like this person with MPD, you choose not to listen.
 
aucontraire said:
Thank you for not calling me a racist.
…
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But its proper to know that as a member of the “american resistance movement” that you are wannabe “militiaman” – what ever that means – and a member of a group with a bizarre agenda (are 27 members of congress really “traitors”?) when it comes to assessing your ability to form a considered opinion on this topic.

Because people like you are an embarrassment and an absolute hindrance to anyone seriously working at control of illegal immigration.
 
aucontraire said:
Thank you for not calling me a racist.

I believe there are two parts to the Catholic Church. The first is what God had in mind and is the Mass and the Sacraments. The second is the politics of the Church which has been corrupted by scandal and twisted to suit the needs of any country or political group that wants to legitimize any claims it has over another.
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Everything thing I say I can support with evidence while others just babble and accuse me of every sin in the world. That alone shows who these people really are.
 
Arclight said:
But its proper to know that as a member of the “american resistance movement” that you are wannabe “militiaman” – what ever that means – and a member of a group with a bizarre agenda (are 27 members of congress really “traitors”?) when it comes to assessing your ability to form a considered opinion on this topic.

Because people like you are an embarrassment and an absolute hindrance to anyone seriously working at control of illegal immigration.
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The name I made up because people accuse me of not having anything written in the profile section and that makes me seem like a phony. However, every intelligent person here must realize that a person can claim to be anything on the internet.

Your the one who’s filling in the blanks as far as my agenda. I’m just an American who has been forced to live in a gang ridden community because my country and Church has forgotten its people and are trying to find the easy way out for themselves rather than confront evil and take steps to destroy it.
 
aucontraire said:
Your the one who’s filling in the blanks as far as my agenda. I’m just an American who has been forced to live in a gang ridden community because my country and Church has forgotten its people and are trying to find the easy way out for themselves rather than confront evil and take steps to destroy it.
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Just our luck - forced to live in a gang-ridden community that has internet service. :whistle:
 
Mystic_Warrior said:
What really are the odds, huh? Maybe God has allowed this so that we can pray for him?
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Shouldn’t you be exercising or exorcising someone???

I thought only Catholic priests could do that.

Who wants to bother going through 7 years of training at a seminary when you can just pretend on the internet.
 
aucontraire said:
Shouldn’t you be exercising or exorcising someone???

I thought only Catholic priests could do that.

Who wants to bother going through 7 years of training at a seminary when you can just pretend on the internet.
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:onpatrol:

Security Officer: Base command, we have a live one here. Over and out.

:onpatrol:
 
The charity in this thread has declined to an unacceptable level and the discussion has wandered far off topic. Thread closed.
 
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